Maryland Gay Marriage Could Hinge on ...

Maryland Gay Marriage Could Hinge on Black Churches

There are 9652 comments on the The Skanner story from Mar 1, 2012, titled Maryland Gay Marriage Could Hinge on Black Churches. In it, The Skanner reports that:

With Maryland poised to legalize gay marriage, some conservative opponents and religious leaders are counting on members of their congregations, especially in black churches, to upend the legislation at the polls this fall.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Skanner.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#8856 Dec 14, 2012
Jane Dough wrote:
<quoted text>
How does encouraging gays add to our goal of trying to encourage biological families?
IT DOESN'T.
See how that works?
.......
Again, you are asking the wrong questions.

The correct question is "How do adoptive parents HARM biological families?"

They don't.

See how that works?

Please explain your odd idea that by supporting one set of American families, you are not providing encouragement to other families, when all laws, benefits, and everything else apply equally to both?

And whose goal is it to support only families that are raising biological children? I have never heard of such a thing, outside of your post. Certainly not societies goal, or the government's goal.
Jane Dough

Barre, VT

#8857 Dec 14, 2012
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>

Caring, loving, committed, involved parents suffice.
a minimum wage job suffices, nonetheless we encourage people to attend school by providing federal loans as going to college is optimum..
Does that mean anyone who doesn't attend school is nothing?

Of course not, but that's the way you guys play it...

Yes, you are fine, but we encourage optimum, and you are non students saying you have an equal right to a student loan...
Jane Dough

Barre, VT

#8858 Dec 14, 2012
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, you are asking the wrong questions.
The correct question is "How do adoptive parents HARM biological families?"
How do non students HARM students?
they don't....
but we don't have to give them money just because we do for students...

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#8859 Dec 14, 2012
Jane Dough wrote:
<quoted text>
a minimum wage job suffices...
Suffices for what, exactly? To be able to say you have a job? It sure won't pay the rent, utility, food, health insurance, and car maintenance.

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#8860 Dec 14, 2012
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
If it's in the New Testament.......God didn't say it and it is only speculative that Jesus said it and again, our government is NOT governed by God or the bible!!!
Fine. Jesus was quoting this from the Old Testament.

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." (Gen 2:24)

That settles it. God said it. Happy now?

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#8861 Dec 14, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Matthew 19 continued:7 “Why then,” they asked,“did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”
8 Jesus replied,“Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
10 The disciples said to him,“If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”
11 Jesus replied,“Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
And your point is?

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#8862 Dec 14, 2012
Jane Dough wrote:
<quoted text>
The same exact reason all you libs think we have to follow yours? Even when you are in the MINORITY...
You guys are just as much as cult as the bible thumpers...
How true.
Jane Dough

Barre, VT

#8863 Dec 14, 2012
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Suffices for what, exactly? To be able to say you have a job? It sure won't pay the rent, utility, food, health insurance, and car maintenance.
No its not optimum, but people grow up just fine with parents making minimum wage and less, or do you dispute that?

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#8864 Dec 14, 2012
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
You are asking the wrong question.
Caring, loving, committed, involved parents suffice. THEY are optimum, and they come in all styles, colors, shape, and combinations.
Not entirely true. Men and women are different and are often radically different parents. Fathers tend to enforce the rules and have a more no nonsense approach to discipline and expectations. Mothers tend to be more nurturing, understanding, and empathetic of the child. Together they provide a balance the child needs.

Of course, there are generalizations and all people are different but if you live in a community of nuclear families as I do this pattern is undeniable.

I have seen this break down many times in single parent households headed up by mothers with boys. The boys learn they can get away with things a dad would never allow and they become disrespectful and unruly.

“You Get My Truth Here!”

Since: May 09

Nonya!

#8865 Dec 14, 2012
DaveinMass wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn't want her because it would be a sham. Just as the marriage between myself and a lesbian would be. Would you support a marriage between a U.S. male and a foreign female with the sole purpose of that marriage to bring the female into the U.S.? No, it would be a sham marriage. Gays and lesbians seek to marry someone of their same sex for the same reasons most adults seek to marry. At the top of that list is love.
Got news for you....ssm IS a sham....
I never said that male/female parents were all incompetent. YOU made the reference that there was a special 'relationship' in the male/female baby making process. Clearly I pointed out where that was not always true.
It doesn't have to be 'always' true...it's still the truth in the development of the family.....
And since no two mothers are the same and no two fathers are the same and some mothers are more like fathers and some fathers are more like mothers....what's the point? I dare you to say what specific role the mother must play and what roles they must not play that are reserved for the father. You'll get no one (except those that long for the 1950's) to agree with you.
None of this matters when the state sanctions two people getting married. No state denies civil marriage to couples that cannot have children, don't want children. And no state prevents children born absent their parent's marriage.
And you continually ignore the fact that SAME-SEX COUPLES DO IN FACT HAVE CHILDREN!!!! Which was one of the reasons the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court in Goodridge (2003) granted civil marriage equality.
Sorry, a man can never be a mother, and a woman can never be a father....those roles are already set in stone by the ALMIGHTY....nothing you can do about that...

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“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#8866 Dec 14, 2012
Jane Dough wrote:
<quoted text>
No its not optimum, but people grow up just fine with parents making minimum wage and less, or do you dispute that?
Such a family would probably receive government subsidies, including housing, food, and fuel assistance. They would probably also benefit from the earned income tax credit and several other programs. This shows that income so generated is not sufficent to raise a family.
Jane Dough

Barre, VT

#8867 Dec 14, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
<quoted text>

I have seen this break down many times in single parent households headed up by mothers with boys. The boys learn they can get away with things a dad would never allow and they become disrespectful and unruly.
What you see with your own eyes is completely irrelevant and bigoted...
you need to accept their loaded studies, dude!
This issue is one where we must put reality aside!
Try to keep up!
Jane Dough

Barre, VT

#8868 Dec 14, 2012
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Such a family would probably receive government subsidies, including housing, food, and fuel assistance. They would probably also benefit from the earned income tax credit and several other programs. This shows that income so generated is not sufficent to raise a family.
so a minimum wage job suffices but is not optimum, right?
hence why we offer student loans?
Its cheaper in the long run right?

Does that mean non students are at the back of the bus, or even more so that we HATE THEM?

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#8869 Dec 14, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
<quoted text>
Fine. Jesus was quoting this from the Old Testament.
"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." (Gen 2:24)
That settles it. God said it. Happy now?
Only in your mind, but God also told the people to follow man's law.....go read Peter!!!

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#8870 Dec 14, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
<quoted text>
Not entirely true. Men and women are different and are often radically different parents. Fathers tend to enforce the rules and have a more no nonsense approach to discipline and expectations. Mothers tend to be more nurturing, understanding, and empathetic of the child. Together they provide a balance the child needs.
Of course, there are generalizations and all people are different but if you live in a community of nuclear families as I do this pattern is undeniable.
I have seen this break down many times in single parent households headed up by mothers with boys. The boys learn they can get away with things a dad would never allow and they become disrespectful and unruly.
Really, go ask any Black pro athlete who didn't have a father figure in their life about how tough their Aunt or Grandmother was on them.........trust me, they will disagree with your comment!!!

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#8871 Dec 14, 2012
DaveinMass wrote:
...But the bearing of children is not a requirement to marry in any jurisdiction in the United States. Face it. This is a fact.
Bearing children provides an essential state interest; posterity. It's not a requirement, bearing children is a benefit for the state.

.
DaveinMass wrote:
And same-sex couples DO HAVE CHILDREN!
Not as same sex couples, they have children by heterosexual relationships. Therefor, every child raised by a gay in a same sex relationship is raised without a mother. Is there anything sadder than a motherless child? Same sex marriage is sooo bad!

.
DaveinMass wrote:
That they may not have naturally conceived them as a pair is irrelevant.
How is it irrelevant? The ability to naturally conceive is an essential biological function.

.
DaveinMass wrote:
The fact that the couples had children was one of the reasons the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court mandated civil marriage equality. Fact! Goodridge (2003).
Until a state denies a civil marriage to a hetero couple because they cannot naturally procreate -- this argument is legally suspect.
The fact is, same sex marriage came to America from an activist court that ignored both precedence and law.

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#8872 Dec 14, 2012
Brian_G wrote:
The fact is, same sex marriage came to America from an activist court that ignored both precedence and law.
Really, what activist Court would that be?

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#8873 Dec 14, 2012
NorCal Native wrote:
Really, what activist Court would that be?
Look at Dave's quote, he cites it.

“Equality for ALL”

Since: Jul 10

Massachusetts

#8874 Dec 14, 2012
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Bearing children provides an essential state interest; posterity. It's not a requirement, bearing children is a benefit for the state.
.
<quoted text>Not as same sex couples, they have children by heterosexual relationships. Therefor, every child raised by a gay in a same sex relationship is raised without a mother. Is there anything sadder than a motherless child? Same sex marriage is sooo bad!
.
<quoted text>How is it irrelevant? The ability to naturally conceive is an essential biological function.
.
<quoted text>The fact is, same sex marriage came to America from an activist court that ignored both precedence and law.
Does the state, any state, treat those children born into their family any differently than any child adopted into their family??

NO!!

Does the state, any state, treat those children naturally conceived by their parents any differently than any child conceived using surrogacy, in vitro fertilization, sperm donor, egg donor?(Adoption may have to occur in some of these, but see above.)

NO!!

Does the state, any state, treat those families any differently if there are two parents, only a mom, only a dad, grandparent(s) as parent?

NO!!

Does the state, any state, treat any family differently if there are no children, 1 child, 2... 3... 4... 10... 15... children?

NO!!

And don't say greater tax breaks. Tax breaks attach to an individual. And adopters get a credit because often the child being adopted had been a ward of the state so their new parents benefit the state. But the child is treated just as if they were born into the family. Ever hear of a judge as the adoptive parent: "...treat the adoptive child as if born into your family" (or words to that effect)?

“Equality for ALL”

Since: Jul 10

Massachusetts

#8875 Dec 14, 2012
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Look at Dave's quote, he cites it.
Have you actually read the opinion?

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