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# Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 32036 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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Just Watching
#25600 Jul 9, 2013
In our rush to be "FAIR" with the teachers pay, perhaps we should look at the job being performed first.

Our children have seen a gradual climb in the number of students consigned to the D and F range of the OAA math test.

This is the same class of children progressing from 6th grade math in 2009-2010 through 8th grade math in 2011-2012.

6th grade D and F students (09-10)... 302 students

7th grade D and F students (10-11)... 318 students

8th grade D and F students (11-12)... 347 students

Are these the results we expect from our vaunted school system when we are asked to fund the school system?

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Just Watching
#25601 Jul 9, 2013
6th Grade 2009-2010 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 6th grade
.
Limited.......... 12 Students
Limited.......... 18% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -12 correct answers =(0-18% correct)
.
Basic..........13 Students
Basic ..........31% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--13- 19 correct answers =(26-38% correct)
.
Proficient........96 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -20-27 correct answers =(40-54% correct)
.
Accelerated.....104 Students
Accelerated.....62% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--28 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........80% was the Average score for this group

.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
Percentage of Students.....49% receiving F

D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......93 Students
Percentage of Students.....22% receiving D

Percentage of Students.....17% receiving C

B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........42 Students
Percentage of Students.....10% receiving B

A..... 93% correct answers and above.....9 Students
Percentage of Students......2% receiving A

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Just Watching
#25602 Jul 9, 2013
What did the children learn in grades 1-6 in Springboro?

Only 21% scored better than 75% on the 7th grade OAA Math test.

21%

7th Grade 2010-2011 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 7th grade
.
Limited.......... 8 Students
Limited.......... 17% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -9 correct answers =(0-18% correct)
.
Basic..........35 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--10- 16 correct answers =(20-32% correct)
.
Proficient........161 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -17-29 correct answers =(34-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....95 Students
Accelerated.....65% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........81% was the Average score for this group

.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
Percentage of Students.....59% receiving F

D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......79 Students
Percentage of Students.....20% receiving D

Percentage of Students.....15% receiving C

B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........25 Students
Percentage of Students.....6% receiving B

A..... 93% correct answers and above.....2 Students
Percentage of Students......0% receiving A

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Just Watching
#25603 Jul 9, 2013
Let the readers decide if such "achievement" is really excellent with distinction.
.
.

8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group

.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F

D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D

Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C

B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B

A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
.
.
.
Is this the level of achievement to which we wish to aspire in Springboro?
.
Is this the best we are capable of given our resources?
.
Should we continue to allow the schools and the state to hide behind euphemisms rather than actual achievement?
.
Demand better, our children and taxpayers deserve a real return on our investment in our schools.

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Just Watching
#25604 Jul 9, 2013
Indeed, what is "FAIR" for our children?

Ask Mrs. Greenburg if these results are fair for our children?(80% D or F in math)

Ask Mrs. Bindeman if these results are fair for the future of all of our children?
(She may be a simple kind of girl, but she probably understands simple math.)

Ask Mrs. Johnson if these are the results are derived by the phony creationism issue?
(Diversion from real issues to phony issues. Who pays the price? Our children.)

Ask Larry Budd why he never reports on such mundane issues in the DDN?
(I did and he responded, "they don't sell papers".)

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sheep
#25605 Jul 9, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Indeed, what is "FAIR" for our children?
Ask Mrs. Greenburg if these results are fair for our children?(80% D or F in math)
Ask Mrs. Bindeman if these results are fair for the future of all of our children?
(She may be a simple kind of girl, but she probably understands simple math.)
Ask Mrs. Johnson if these are the results are derived by the phony creationism issue?
(Diversion from real issues to phony issues. Who pays the price? Our children.)
Ask Larry Budd why he never reports on such mundane issues in the DDN?
(I did and he responded, "they don't sell papers".)
Let's see....who created the "diversion" issues of creationism and inviting the religious and racist groups that wanted to "teach" the Constitution? It certainly wasn't the ladies you mentioned above. They and many, many others were simply reacting to the "diversion" that was started and perpetuated by the BOE majority.

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Just Watching
#25606 Jul 9, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's see....who created the "diversion" issues of creationism and inviting the religious and racist groups that wanted to "teach" the Constitution? It certainly wasn't the ladies you mentioned above. They and many, many others were simply reacting to the "diversion" that was started and perpetuated by the BOE majority.
Try reacting to the false education our children are receiving.

I am yet to see that response.

How do you explain the fact that our children are receiving less than what the taxpayers are funding?

2000 plus kids in this district are not getting the education for which the taxpayers of this community have provided funding?

Your response is telling in that it never seems to quite address that salient point. Instead it demands more money for the union that is failing our children.

Who pays the price for this type of behavior, the children who depend on us.

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Dollar and Sense
#25607 Jul 9, 2013
Budget first education wrote:
<quoted text>
Just curious, how is the OEA standing in the way of negotiations? And your suggestion that we should visit the website for current negotiation information is a little disappointing since it hasn't been updated for two months. Do you know more about the negotiations?
The Springboro Board of Education President makes SENSE to me,
as stated in the Springboro Sun on July 4th.

"We have now completed an evaluation of the financial impact of the current SEA proposal. It exceeds the school district's available funds by more than \$2 million in years one and two," Kohls said, "In the spirit of transparency, we want to update the public on the BOE and SEA proposed agreements."

The parties remain divided on these key issues:
The board is offering step raises of 4.75 - 5.75 percent per year depending upon level of education when compared to the existing salary schedule. Those not eligible for a step raise would receive a \$1,000 annual stipend. The SEA is countering with continued step raises and an additional 2.7 percent raise in base salary in the first year and an additional 1.7 percent in the second year.

The district is offering to pay 80 percent of health, dental and vision insurance premiums, SEA is countering with a continuation of 85 percent paid by the district. Employees now pay \$170 per month for family plan coverage. Under the BOE proposal, monthly premiums will increase \$57 per month so that employees would now pay \$227 per month for the family plan.

The board proposals include a merit/performance-based pay system commencing no later than Feb. 1, 2015.

The proposals presented by the board and SEA agree to maintain the original contract language, thus leaving compensation and healthcare benefits as the remaining issues to resolve.

We have listened to our community. We are committed to providing a quality education, being fiscally prudent and being as fair to our employees as is possible in these difficult economic times,” Kohls said.“The board is also driven by a ‘Children First’ budget
That takes into account all aspects of our children’s education.”

Kohls also announced last week that a tentative agreement between the board and the Springboro Classified Employees Association,(SCEA), the union representing bus drivers, cafeteria workers and other non-teaching staff, is supported by the board,
According to board president, Kelly Kohls.

We are pleased with this tentative agreement,” said Kohls.“We will have an agreement that is a part of our plan to remain sustainable into the future.” She continued,“The SCEA and the BOE agreed to an increase in compensation and changes to the health
Insurance package which the district can accommodate.”

Highlights of the agreement include:
-Step Raises for three years
-\$1000 annual stipend for three years;
-Employees will pay 20 percent for healthcare insurance, the district will pay 80 percent of the premium;
-Contract period will be four years

“I am very happy to make this announcement today. Our hope is that we can have similar news about our teacher union negotiations in the near future,” said Kohls.“We promised our community we would approve only agreements that were economically sustainable. We certainly have as far as our classified workers are concerned. This will be our ongoing goal as our negotiation team continues its work.”

TV Land
#25608 Jul 9, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's see....who created the "diversion" issues of creationism and inviting the religious and racist groups that wanted to "teach" the Constitution? It certainly wasn't the ladies you mentioned above. They and many, many others were simply reacting to the "diversion" that was started and perpetuated by the BOE majority.
Beyond the SEA fake crisis of "diversion" issues, let's get back to the real MOTIVE of everything union-minded...

In his Notes on the State of Virginia (1785) Thomas Jefferson also wrote extensively on oppression, liberty, revolution and the necessary limits of government: The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

As a taxpaying citizen in our local school district, I clearly can see that the legitimate powers of Ohio's old outdated 1983 government collective bargaining "rights" are oppressive to we the people, and injurious by picking my pocket and costing me an "arm and a leg" in property taxes just to live in my own home!

Now I really don't care if god gets a nod from the social studies department of Springboro High School; neither do I give a hoot that our high school students testify God has no place in this country. Does that threaten God's truth or my personal beliefs?
Not a chance! I do strongly care the school district's use of my heard earned money paid in school taxes; and strongly agree that false union gods of knowledge, with a one sided view that union gods are the sole authority of education;
have NO place in our Springboro Schools classroom.
Springboro, we can afford to hire better teachers for our children's classroom education, if we release the SEA to find workplace freedom some place else.

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sheep
#25609 Jul 9, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Try reacting to the false education our children are receiving.
I am yet to see that response.
How do you explain the fact that our children are receiving less than what the taxpayers are funding?
2000 plus kids in this district are not getting the education for which the taxpayers of this community have provided funding?
Your response is telling in that it never seems to quite address that salient point. Instead it demands more money for the union that is failing our children.
Who pays the price for this type of behavior, the children who depend on us.
And your posting of the same information over and over and over again without one suggestion of a solution never seems to address your salient point. Be a part of the solution, not the problem. Who suffers when no one such as yourself offers any solutions to perceived problems? The children suffer.

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lol
#25610 Jul 9, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
And your posting of the same information over and over and over again without one suggestion of a solution never seems to address your salient point. Be a part of the solution, not the problem. Who suffers when no one such as yourself offers any solutions to perceived problems? The children suffer.
lol.. give it a rest wooly bully! Only the SEA/union activists in Springboro schools are suffering, and only only from self-impoised greed, hostility, resentment and jealousy of Springboro's success!
Put a little love in your heart! Life is good!
me and Mrs Jobe
#25611 Jul 9, 2013
I find it despicable that you would refer to temporary or replacement teachers as "scabs". That word puts the teachers union in the same category as Jimmy Hoffa's Teamsters, United Mine Workers and other union's that resort to name calling and violence. The human beings you call "scabs" are Americans, trying to make a living and working legally but they just don't believe as you do. Is that a reason to call them such a terrible name? I do understand though that the call for the community to send emails is part of the old tired union playbook though.
In my time I have worked in both the union environment(when I was young and dumb) and for past 20 years union free. I have had union members threaten me with violence and actually throw bricks at me. I have never had employers treat me as crude and unprofessional as unions did.

Think about this. A strike is part of a unions process or way of doing things. It is NOT part of a school systems process. The teachers choose to be part of a union and this process. So if it happens it was the unions decision.

I want to send the UNION a CLEAR message that we, as a community, do NOT want a strike. What is needed from the TEACHERS is a settlement from the negotiations that are on-going! A strike from our TEACHERS UNION is unacceptable.

Can you pass on my email to your union leaders or share their emails with me(as you did the BOE members) so I can share the same message with them? I am anxious to see what concessions the union takes from their initial offer during the course of these negotiation.

The BOE is just doing their job by having a plan B in case the teachers strike. As a parent I am glad there is a plan B. I truly don't want a strike and all this disruption but it is part of the process. I don't think the teachers to the BOE want a strike either. I don't even think most of the teachers want to be in a union. Most(not all) of the ones I know personally have told me if they had a choice they would not be in the union. We have some great teachers and a handfull of terrible ones as well that the union protects.
You are wrong
#25612 Jul 9, 2013
The BOE does want to strike. They clearly don't want to negotiate. They showed up an hour late for negotiations. They clearly want this to end huh?

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doubtit
#25613 Jul 9, 2013
me and Mrs Jobe wrote:
I find it despicable that you would refer to temporary or replacement teachers as "scabs". That word puts the teachers union in the same category as Jimmy Hoffa's Teamsters, United Mine Workers and other union's that resort to name calling and violence. The human beings you call "scabs" are Americans, trying to make a living and working legally but they just don't believe as you do. Is that a reason to call them such a terrible name? I do understand though that the call for the community to send emails is part of the old tired union playbook though.
In my time I have worked in both the union environment(when I was young and dumb) and for past 20 years union free. I have had union members threaten me with violence and actually throw bricks at me. I have never had employers treat me as crude and unprofessional as unions did.
Think about this. A strike is part of a unions process or way of doing things. It is NOT part of a school systems process. The teachers choose to be part of a union and this process. So if it happens it was the unions decision.
I want to send the UNION a CLEAR message that we, as a community, do NOT want a strike. What is needed from the TEACHERS is a settlement from the negotiations that are on-going! A strike from our TEACHERS UNION is unacceptable.
Can you pass on my email to your union leaders or share their emails with me(as you did the BOE members) so I can share the same message with them? I am anxious to see what concessions the union takes from their initial offer during the course of these negotiation.
The BOE is just doing their job by having a plan B in case the teachers strike. As a parent I am glad there is a plan B. I truly don't want a strike and all this disruption but it is part of the process. I don't think the teachers to the BOE want a strike either. I don't even think most of the teachers want to be in a union. Most(not all) of the ones I know personally have told me if they had a choice they would not be in the union. We have some great teachers and a handfull of terrible ones as well that the union protects.
Ah mind games....kinds like when jodi arias said she'd rather get the death penalty than a life sentence. You don't care about the teachers or the kids. You want a charter school that is funded by the state and not your local property taxes. New flash genius. Taxes are taxes and nothing is free. Including charter schools.
u need a clue
#25614 Jul 9, 2013
doubtit wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah mind games....kinds like when jodi arias said she'd rather get the death penalty than a life sentence. You don't care about the teachers or the kids. You want a charter school that is funded by the state and not your local property taxes. New flash genius. Taxes are taxes and nothing is free. Including charter schools.
A Springboro Charter school? Funded by the state of Ohio?
BAHAHAHHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHHAA!!!
Hey! Einstein! What does the state of Ohio recieve revenue?
Either directly or indirectly, it comes from me and from Y-O-U !!!!!
Twp resident
#25615 Jul 9, 2013
sheep wrote:
<quoted text>
And your posting of the same information over and over and over again without one suggestion of a solution never seems to address your salient point. Be a part of the solution, not the problem. Who suffers when no one such as yourself offers any solutions to perceived problems? The children suffer.
The only reason JW has to post the same information over and over again is because of backward thinking and hardheadedness of this town's union worshippers who are currently pretending to fight their greedy battle for...(OK everyone, let's hear that familiar glad sigh!)... for the sake "of our children".
Truth to Power
#25616 Jul 9, 2013
TV Land wrote:
<quoted text>
Springboro, we can afford to hire better teachers for our children's classroom education, if we release the SEA to find workplace freedom some place else.
Springboro Education Association
50 South Main Street
Springboro OH 45066

All good parents and citizens of this Excellent Springboro School District -
Please do not hesitate to drop by our teachers' union headquarters to let them know your explicit feelings about the district's current hot-button subject.....

UNBRIDLED GREED.

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clan
#25617 Jul 9, 2013
Twp resident wrote:
<quoted text>
The only reason JW has to post the same information over and over again is because of backward thinking and hardheadedness of this town's union worshippers who are currently pretending to fight their greedy battle for...(OK everyone, let's hear that familiar glad sigh!)... for the sake "of our children".
How is promoting a curriculum sponsored by a white supremacist putting our children first?

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Curious
#25618 Jul 9, 2013
For years we have been hearing that the best and brightest teachers and administrators are leaving the district "in droves". So riddle me this...If Tammy Grigsby is suing the BOE to get a job in this district, is she not one of the best and brightest?

If, according to the chicken little's, the best and brightest are running away in droves, mostly because of this BOE, why then is Mrs. Grigsby suing the BOE because she didn't get a job in the district?

Can you have it both ways? The best are leaving, but she is suing to get in. She really must want to work for this BOE. Does that make her less then one of the best and brightest? IF she is, then we shouldn't have hired her to begin with, or so says the "logic" of those that are always complaining the loudest.

These women crack me up.

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NoTeaForMe
#25619 Jul 9, 2013
Curious wrote:
For years we have been hearing that the best and brightest teachers and administrators are leaving the district "in droves". So riddle me this...If Tammy Grigsby is suing the BOE to get a job in this district, is she not one of the best and brightest?
If, according to the chicken little's, the best and brightest are running away in droves, mostly because of this BOE, why then is Mrs. Grigsby suing the BOE because she didn't get a job in the district?
Can you have it both ways? The best are leaving, but she is suing to get in. She really must want to work for this BOE. Does that make her less then one of the best and brightest? IF she is, then we shouldn't have hired her to begin with, or so says the "logic" of those that are always complaining the loudest.
These women crack me up.
Maybe she is making a point...perhaps she is standing up for what is right, fighting back against this "agenda first" BOE and their tyrannical leader Kelly Kohls. Perhaps she is just trying to spare countless other teachers from the same discrimination she experienced for exercising her first amendment rights.

I support Tammy Grigsby and anyone else with the cojones to stand up to this out of control board. Time to send Kelly Kohls packing this November!

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