Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,514

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Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24545 May 1, 2013
raises wrote:
<quoted text>
To steal Just Watching's eloquent usage of the internet dictionary, I found the following:
"A bonus is a gift to reward performance, paid either by a private employer or by a government - something given or paid over and above what is due."
Hmmmm, doesn't sound like a raise in salary to me. In fact, your buddies on the BOE even list it as "bonus". I wonder why?
If you make more money than you used to you got a raise.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24546 May 1, 2013
Numbers wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a 1% bonus to all salaried (certified) employees if the district achieves "Excellant with Distinction"
With 2000 plus kids in our district who are not getting the education the taxpayers have funded, the thought of earning extra money for jumping over the lowest branches of education seems a bit disingenuous.
questions more questions

Franklin, OH

#24547 May 1, 2013
Numbers wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a 1% bonus to all salaried (certified) employees if the district achieves "Excellant with Distinction"
then it is truly a performance bonus. Thanks for pointing out what type of bonus it is. Like I stated I do not have a copy of the contract. Nor the inclination to read it because it doesn't have any impact on my day to day life.
With so many different types of raises, percentage, step, lump sum ( and many times lump sum is called bonus), and yes I forgot about a performance bonus. Most companies do not give performance bonuses or profit sharing for union employees in the private sector.
raises

Springboro, OH

#24548 May 2, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
If you make more money than you used to you got a raise.
Sure - keep repeating over and over...some day it will become true....Yep, and a large majority haven't had one for two years, some three....not only one like you claim.
Simple Minded

Piqua, OH

#24549 May 2, 2013
Genius wrote:
<quoted text>
A bonus is a bonus and not a raise. Let's get that clear. If I need to go into greater detail for you just let me know. I'm sure it's not that as simple for you to figure out as it is for others.
School union employees in Springboro should be grateful they have a job this year! Our Springboro Teachers do not need more money
"given." Springboro Teachers need Workplace Freedom to EARN more on their own merit (instead of being bound by old outdated collective bargaining laws).
Just Asking

Piqua, OH

#24550 May 2, 2013
raises wrote:
<quoted text>
To steal Just Watching's eloquent usage of the internet dictionary, I found the following:
"A bonus is a gift to reward performance, paid either by a private employer or by a government - something given or paid over and above what is due."
Hmmmm, doesn't sound like a raise in salary to me. In fact, your buddies on the BOE even list it as "bonus". I wonder why?
Do school teachers pay income taxes?

Are teachers required to report this "bonus" on their income tax returns?
Not Everybody

Columbus, OH

#24551 May 2, 2013
raises wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure - keep repeating over and over...some day it will become true....Yep, and a large majority haven't had one for two years, some three....not only one like you claim.
Any possibility everyone doesn't deserve one? Not everybody did the Same job, did the same job as well, or cared about their job as much. Some people deserve more money some people deserve West money and some people deserve no money.
raises

Springboro, OH

#24552 May 2, 2013
Not Everybody wrote:
<quoted text>
Any possibility everyone doesn't deserve one? Not everybody did the Same job, did the same job as well, or cared about their job as much. Some people deserve more money some people deserve West money and some people deserve no money.
You are exactly right. But the BOE is proposing no increases in anything whatsoever for the forseeable future. Is that fair after some not getting a raise for 4 years? Some 3? A majority 2 years?
Really

Piqua, OH

#24553 May 2, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
With 2000 plus kids in our district who are not getting the education the taxpayers have funded, the thought of earning extra money for jumping over the lowest branches of education seems a bit disingenuous.
First off, it is annoying to see you post exactly the same thing over and over again - like the saying goes, if you are not part of the solution, your part of the problem. And, exactly what education are these 2000 kids receiving that isn't what us taxpayers funded? These students are often in the same classes as those that are doing "accelerated" or "advanced". And if they are not in the advanced classes, they often times have the same teacher.

My suggestion, take some time and sit in on a couple classes - first the enriched or advanced classes and then the basic classes. Take a look at the kids, the ones in the advanced classes want to learn, are engaged, and trying to do their best. The ones in the basic classes are often times rude, disrespectful, and doing lots of other things in the classroom to avoid learning. I

Now I don't want to discredit any of those 2000 kids that are not doing well but before complaining about the education that they are not receiving make sure you fully understand what it is that they are willing to receive. I'm willing to bet there isn't a teacher out there that wouldn't take some extra time to help a struggling student if only that student asked. So why don't the parents and students want more out of the education we are providing?

You can't put all of the blame on the school district!
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24554 May 2, 2013
raises wrote:
<quoted text>
You are exactly right. But the BOE is proposing no increases in anything whatsoever for the forseeable future. Is that fair after some not getting a raise for 4 years? Some 3? A majority 2 years?
You could be working in Middletown where they took a 1% reduction in pay in FY 2012, and another 1% reduction in FY 2013, pay freeze in FY 2014. Health insurance participation went to 20%. No step raises for life of contract.

Upside for the teachers, they are still all working.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/loca...

So 1% can be a raise or it can be a 1% reduction.

If the SEA and the teachers in Springboro don't like the fact that their W2 for FY 2012 was more than their W2 in FY2011, then they probably didn't need the money anyway.

Middletown teachers sacrificed for their children, just like most of the residents of Springboro do everyday for their children.
Really

Piqua, OH

#24555 May 2, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
You could be working in Middletown where they took a 1% reduction in pay in FY 2012, and another 1% reduction in FY 2013, pay freeze in FY 2014. Health insurance participation went to 20%. No step raises for life of contract.
Upside for the teachers, they are still all working.
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/loca...
So 1% can be a raise or it can be a 1% reduction.
If the SEA and the teachers in Springboro don't like the fact that their W2 for FY 2012 was more than their W2 in FY2011, then they probably didn't need the money anyway.
Middletown teachers sacrificed for their children, just like most of the residents of Springboro do everyday for their children.
Mr. Petrey wouldn't take the job of superintendent unless he got $20K more than what the board wanted to pay (which is basically a 20% raise) and guess what - he got what he wanted - no questions asked. So now Mr. Petrey and the board want the teachers to be happy with their current salary and they are not allowed to ask for more - sounds a little hypocritical to me - don't you agree?

As for the Middletown teachers - sure they all have jobs now but how many are looking to move out of the district or change jobs altogether? Do you think that teachers can't get jobs elsewhere? How many good teachers can we lose in Springboro before the quality of eduction suffers even more than it is currently? And your comment about Middletown teachers suffering for their children - are you insinuating that Springboro teachers don't do the same - if so shame on you!
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24556 May 2, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Petrey wouldn't take the job of superintendent unless he got $20K more than what the board wanted to pay (which is basically a 20% raise) and guess what - he got what he wanted - no questions asked. So now Mr. Petrey and the board want the teachers to be happy with their current salary and they are not allowed to ask for more - sounds a little hypocritical to me - don't you agree?
As for the Middletown teachers - sure they all have jobs now but how many are looking to move out of the district or change jobs altogether? Do you think that teachers can't get jobs elsewhere? How many good teachers can we lose in Springboro before the quality of eduction suffers even more than it is currently? And your comment about Middletown teachers suffering for their children - are you insinuating that Springboro teachers don't do the same - if so shame on you!
Mr. Petrey also took a straight salary, no pick up included or hidden from the public, no car allowance hidden from the public, no health club dues, etc etc etc.

Mr. Petrey also has to come in and save the education of 2000 plus kids who have not been getting the education the taxpayers have been funding.

Eventually every good teacher leaves either through retirement, spouse is transferred elsewhere, natural attrition, boredom, better job in different field, decides to have a family, or just quits.

Wherever those teachers go they will find much of the same stuff making the grass green there as well. No job is perfect, no work conditions are ideal, not all coworkers are as effervescent as I am, and pay varies just as dramatically as the rest.

The teachers for Middletown were not economically tone deaf and stepped up, will you?
LOL in Boro

Piqua, OH

#24557 May 2, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Petrey wouldn't take the job of superintendent unless he got $20K more than what the board wanted to pay (which is basically a 20% raise) and guess what - he got what he wanted - no questions asked. So now Mr. Petrey and the board want the teachers to be happy with their current salary and they are not allowed to ask for more - sounds a little hypocritical to me - don't you agree?
As for the Middletown teachers - sure they all have jobs now but how many are looking to move out of the district or change jobs altogether? Do you think that teachers can't get jobs elsewhere? How many good teachers can we lose in Springboro before the quality of eduction suffers even more than it is currently? And your comment about Middletown teachers suffering for their children - are you insinuating that Springboro teachers don't do the same - if so shame on you!
Well, we do know that just recently, one Middletown teacher wanted to get a job in Springboro so badly that she tried to trump up false charges of wrong doing against the board. It apppears that one of the SHS high school assistant principals had spoken out of turn promising favors that he had no authority to deliver, causing a real drama (as our SHS prinicpals often do).
Wonder if this assistant principal will be the "chosen one" for the job of high school principal on Mr. Petrey's student survey? Stay tuned for the continuing drama, this season under the direction of Mr. Petrey, who is one of the highest paid school superintendents in the state of Ohio.
Hold On

Englewood, OH

#24558 May 2, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>Mr. Petrey wouldn't take the job of superintendent unless he got $20K more than what the board wanted to pay (which is basically a 20% raise) and guess what - he got what he wanted - no questions asked. So now Mr. Petrey and the board want the teachers to be happy with their current salary and they are not allowed to ask for more - sounds a little hypocritical to me - don't you agree?

As for the Middletown teachers - sure they all have jobs now but how many are looking to move out of the district or change jobs altogether? Do you think that teachers can't get jobs elsewhere? How many good teachers can we lose in Springboro before the quality of eduction suffers even more than it is currently? And your comment about Middletown teachers suffering for their children - are you insinuating that Springboro teachers don't do the same - if so shame on you!
I agree with you!!! And what kinds of points were those being made about Middletown anyway? Who wants to be compared to Middletown schools? No thanks!
questions more questions

Franklin, OH

#24559 May 2, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Petrey <<<<snip >>>>>don't you agree?
As for the Middletown teachers - sure they all have jobs now but how many are looking to move out of the district or change jobs altogether? Do you think that teachers can't get jobs elsewhere? How many good teachers can we lose in Springboro before the quality of eduction suffers even more than it is currently? And your comment about Middletown teachers suffering for their children - are you insinuating that Springboro teachers don't do the same - if so shame on you!
No I do not agree. Obviously you have not read and compared Petrey's contract which is up front salary versus the previous one with all kinds of hidden add ons over and above the published salary.And look around and see what the total compensation is for other superintendents.Well above Petrey's package.

As for teachers able to get jobs elsewhere.. will you all make up your minds which way you want to argue? One day your lamenting the layoffs of teachers all over the state and districts allowing staff levels to be lowered through attrition. The next you are acting like a teacher can easily get a job if unhappy. Which is it? Are Districts cutting back or is it open season and everyone who is certified can pick and choose which district they want to go to because of the vast amount of openings ? Also someone argued the other day that teachers with ten plus years,no other district will hire them because of the added expense. So which is it?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24560 May 2, 2013
That sounds pretty snooty, considering where most of you folks came from.
Taxpaying Voter

Piqua, OH

#24561 May 2, 2013
raises wrote:
<quoted text>
You are exactly right. But the BOE is proposing no increases in anything whatsoever for the forseeable future. Is that fair after some not getting a raise for 4 years? Some 3? A majority 2 years?
Of Course That's Fair! If you have a job, teacher or whatever,
you have more than lots of your neighbors have. Stop being so greedy and be happy! Priceless!
questions more questions

Franklin, OH

#24562 May 2, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
That sounds pretty snooty, considering where most of you folks came from.
To whom was that comment directed at? And would you care to bloviate on the comment?
questions more questions

Franklin, OH

#24563 May 2, 2013
<Just Watching wrote:
That sounds pretty snooty, considering where most of you folks came from>

<<I responded
To whom was that comment directed at? And would you care to bloviate on the comment?>>>

Looking at the previous posts
I think you were responding to the posters putting down Middletown.If incorrect let me know
Just love Bill O'Reillys word Bloviate...
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24564 May 2, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
First off, it is annoying to see you post exactly the same thing over and over again - like the saying goes, if you are not part of the solution, your part of the problem. And, exactly what education are these 2000 kids receiving that isn't what us taxpayers funded? These students are often in the same classes as those that are doing "accelerated" or "advanced". And if they are not in the advanced classes, they often times have the same teacher.
My suggestion, take some time and sit in on a couple classes - first the enriched or advanced classes and then the basic classes. Take a look at the kids, the ones in the advanced classes want to learn, are engaged, and trying to do their best. The ones in the basic classes are often times rude, disrespectful, and doing lots of other things in the classroom to avoid learning. I
Now I don't want to discredit any of those 2000 kids that are not doing well but before complaining about the education that they are not receiving make sure you fully understand what it is that they are willing to receive. I'm willing to bet there isn't a teacher out there that wouldn't take some extra time to help a struggling student if only that student asked. So why don't the parents and students want more out of the education we are providing?
You can't put all of the blame on the school district!
It certainly must seem to be simpler to teach those students who are smarter, better prepared, enthusiastic, and better behaved, but are we reaching all of the students?

The kids in the basic classes have been getting by learning less than 40% of the material since they started school. It is little wonder that they have opted out of the program for we have taught them
that 40% of the material is good enough.

But is it?

If you have two students who begin first grade together, sit in the same class rooms together, and then take the OAA test together in the third grade, you would think that their results would be similar. In the beginning they are actually not that far apart, primarily because the amount of material to be covered is not that large.

Watching the gradual decline of our OAA scores on the same classes of children year in and year out reveal a disturbing pattern of regression with the test results. Children who are not expected to master material most often do not. This has catastrophic consequences with each proceeding year's testing. If the fundamental building blocks of knowledge are not mastered early it becomes incrementally more difficult to make those lost skills up in a regular classroom. Holes develop in a child's knowledge base that cause them to be unable to process new skill sets being taught for lack of proper foundational learning the year or two prior. Thus each year our test results show our children tumbling down the test results scale toward failure.

It is little wonder these children become the way they do. We fill their head with semantic nonsense about achievement when we know full and well they are failing. They keep hearing these euphemistic terms used to describe their progress and they begin to question themselves and the amount of effort it takes to sit at the front of the class. Rather than teaching them at an early age what it takes to be successful, we fill their heads with false platitudes. These platitudes, however, are scant replacement for actual knowledge. Frustration will no doubt grow with each passing year as less and less is absorbed and bewilderment replaces enthusiasm for learning.

The first step in the solution is to quit lying to ourselves, to the parents, and to the children.

PROFICIENT = FAILURE

Understand that and rectify the situation before we sacrifice another class to the euphemistic gods of education.

There are consequences to our semantic and euphemistic false praise, and the children are the ones who are ultimately paying the price.

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