Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Dayton Daily News

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raises

Springboro, OH

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#24542
May 1, 2013
 

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questions more questions wrote:
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Any increase in your hourly pay or salary pay for whatever reason is a raise in salary. Even a lump sum (called signing bonus in some union factories) increases the pay for that year. To be claiming no raises for four years is to imply their w2's for the past 4 years is exactly the same..
To steal Just Watching's eloquent usage of the internet dictionary, I found the following:

"A bonus is a gift to reward performance, paid either by a private employer or by a government - something given or paid over and above what is due."

Hmmmm, doesn't sound like a raise in salary to me. In fact, your buddies on the BOE even list it as "bonus". I wonder why?
questions more questions

Franklin, OH

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#24543
May 1, 2013
 
raises wrote:
<quoted text>
To steal Just Watching's eloquent usage of the internet dictionary, I found the following:
"A bonus is a gift to reward performance, paid either by a private employer or by a government - something given or paid over and above what is due."
Hmmmm, doesn't sound like a raise in salary to me. In fact, your buddies on the BOE even list it as "bonus". I wonder why?
My buddies on the BOE? Funny. and the attacks begin..hehehehe
Not having the actual contract wording in front of me I do not know if the actual contract calls it a bonus or lump sum payment. Each contract is worded different in different professions. Obviously I accept your definition of a bonus being over and above what is due.. now answer me this... if a contract states that a specific lump sum percentage or bonus is to be paid to all employees:Is it over and above what is due? Obviously it is due by nature of the contract language. So how can it be over and above what is due?

The lump sums are given in lieu of a percentage increase. They are sometimes called bonuses to make employees feel better about getting screwed on the paltry or lacking percentage increases.
An executive getting a bonus is not a guaranteed bonus. Sometimes their contracts have stock options written in based on performance of the company. Sometimes a board of Directors will award a Bonus over and above anything that is already due in the executives contract because of outstanding performance. Athletes try to get as much up front cash and it is called a signing bonus or guaranteed up front money. It is not over and above what is due (it is in the contract after all and due to them legally) Better to have the cash now than it is to sign a long term contract thats not guaranteed.

But back to your main point, using your definition of over and above what is due, If the bonus or lump some is already in the contract and is legally obligated to be paid.. It is not by your own definition over and above what is due. By definition and contractual obligations it is due.
Numbers

Wellington, OH

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#24544
May 1, 2013
 

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questions more questions wrote:
<quoted text>
My buddies on the BOE? Funny. and the attacks begin..hehehehe
Not having the actual contract wording in front of me I do not know if the actual contract calls it a bonus or lump sum payment. Each contract is worded different in different professions. Obviously I accept your definition of a bonus being over and above what is due.. now answer me this... if a contract states that a specific lump sum percentage or bonus is to be paid to all employees:Is it over and above what is due? Obviously it is due by nature of the contract
language. So how can it be over and above what is due?
The lump sums are given in lieu of a percentage increase. They are sometimes called bonuses to make employees feel better about getting screwed on the paltry or lacking percentage increases.
An executive getting a bonus is not a guaranteed bonus. Sometimes their contracts have stock options written in based on performance of the company. Sometimes a board of Directors will award a Bonus over and above anything that is already due in the executives contract because of outstanding performance. Athletes try to get as much up front cash and it is called a signing bonus or guaranteed up front money. It is not over and above what is due (it is in the contract after all and due to them legally) Better to have the cash now than it is to sign a long term contract thats not guaranteed.
But back to your main point, using your definition of over and above what is due, If the bonus or lump some is already in the contract and is legally obligated to be paid.. It is not by your own definition over and above what is due. By definition and contractual obligations it is due.
It is a 1% bonus to all salaried (certified) employees if the district achieves "Excellant with Distinction"
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#24545
May 1, 2013
 

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raises wrote:
<quoted text>
To steal Just Watching's eloquent usage of the internet dictionary, I found the following:
"A bonus is a gift to reward performance, paid either by a private employer or by a government - something given or paid over and above what is due."
Hmmmm, doesn't sound like a raise in salary to me. In fact, your buddies on the BOE even list it as "bonus". I wonder why?
If you make more money than you used to you got a raise.
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#24546
May 1, 2013
 

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Numbers wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a 1% bonus to all salaried (certified) employees if the district achieves "Excellant with Distinction"
With 2000 plus kids in our district who are not getting the education the taxpayers have funded, the thought of earning extra money for jumping over the lowest branches of education seems a bit disingenuous.
questions more questions

Franklin, OH

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#24547
May 1, 2013
 
Numbers wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a 1% bonus to all salaried (certified) employees if the district achieves "Excellant with Distinction"
then it is truly a performance bonus. Thanks for pointing out what type of bonus it is. Like I stated I do not have a copy of the contract. Nor the inclination to read it because it doesn't have any impact on my day to day life.
With so many different types of raises, percentage, step, lump sum ( and many times lump sum is called bonus), and yes I forgot about a performance bonus. Most companies do not give performance bonuses or profit sharing for union employees in the private sector.
raises

Springboro, OH

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#24548
May 2, 2013
 

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Just Watching wrote:
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If you make more money than you used to you got a raise.
Sure - keep repeating over and over...some day it will become true....Yep, and a large majority haven't had one for two years, some three....not only one like you claim.
Simple Minded

Piqua, OH

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#24549
May 2, 2013
 
Genius wrote:
<quoted text>
A bonus is a bonus and not a raise. Let's get that clear. If I need to go into greater detail for you just let me know. I'm sure it's not that as simple for you to figure out as it is for others.
School union employees in Springboro should be grateful they have a job this year! Our Springboro Teachers do not need more money
"given." Springboro Teachers need Workplace Freedom to EARN more on their own merit (instead of being bound by old outdated collective bargaining laws).
Just Asking

Piqua, OH

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#24550
May 2, 2013
 
raises wrote:
<quoted text>
To steal Just Watching's eloquent usage of the internet dictionary, I found the following:
"A bonus is a gift to reward performance, paid either by a private employer or by a government - something given or paid over and above what is due."
Hmmmm, doesn't sound like a raise in salary to me. In fact, your buddies on the BOE even list it as "bonus". I wonder why?
Do school teachers pay income taxes?

Are teachers required to report this "bonus" on their income tax returns?
Not Everybody

New London, OH

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#24551
May 2, 2013
 

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raises wrote:
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Sure - keep repeating over and over...some day it will become true....Yep, and a large majority haven't had one for two years, some three....not only one like you claim.
Any possibility everyone doesn't deserve one? Not everybody did the Same job, did the same job as well, or cared about their job as much. Some people deserve more money some people deserve West money and some people deserve no money.
raises

Springboro, OH

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#24552
May 2, 2013
 

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Not Everybody wrote:
<quoted text>
Any possibility everyone doesn't deserve one? Not everybody did the Same job, did the same job as well, or cared about their job as much. Some people deserve more money some people deserve West money and some people deserve no money.
You are exactly right. But the BOE is proposing no increases in anything whatsoever for the forseeable future. Is that fair after some not getting a raise for 4 years? Some 3? A majority 2 years?
Really

Piqua, OH

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#24553
May 2, 2013
 

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Just Watching wrote:
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With 2000 plus kids in our district who are not getting the education the taxpayers have funded, the thought of earning extra money for jumping over the lowest branches of education seems a bit disingenuous.
First off, it is annoying to see you post exactly the same thing over and over again - like the saying goes, if you are not part of the solution, your part of the problem. And, exactly what education are these 2000 kids receiving that isn't what us taxpayers funded? These students are often in the same classes as those that are doing "accelerated" or "advanced". And if they are not in the advanced classes, they often times have the same teacher.

My suggestion, take some time and sit in on a couple classes - first the enriched or advanced classes and then the basic classes. Take a look at the kids, the ones in the advanced classes want to learn, are engaged, and trying to do their best. The ones in the basic classes are often times rude, disrespectful, and doing lots of other things in the classroom to avoid learning. I

Now I don't want to discredit any of those 2000 kids that are not doing well but before complaining about the education that they are not receiving make sure you fully understand what it is that they are willing to receive. I'm willing to bet there isn't a teacher out there that wouldn't take some extra time to help a struggling student if only that student asked. So why don't the parents and students want more out of the education we are providing?

You can't put all of the blame on the school district!
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#24554
May 2, 2013
 

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raises wrote:
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You are exactly right. But the BOE is proposing no increases in anything whatsoever for the forseeable future. Is that fair after some not getting a raise for 4 years? Some 3? A majority 2 years?
You could be working in Middletown where they took a 1% reduction in pay in FY 2012, and another 1% reduction in FY 2013, pay freeze in FY 2014. Health insurance participation went to 20%. No step raises for life of contract.

Upside for the teachers, they are still all working.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/loca...

So 1% can be a raise or it can be a 1% reduction.

If the SEA and the teachers in Springboro don't like the fact that their W2 for FY 2012 was more than their W2 in FY2011, then they probably didn't need the money anyway.

Middletown teachers sacrificed for their children, just like most of the residents of Springboro do everyday for their children.
Really

Piqua, OH

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#24555
May 2, 2013
 

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Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
You could be working in Middletown where they took a 1% reduction in pay in FY 2012, and another 1% reduction in FY 2013, pay freeze in FY 2014. Health insurance participation went to 20%. No step raises for life of contract.
Upside for the teachers, they are still all working.
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/loca...
So 1% can be a raise or it can be a 1% reduction.
If the SEA and the teachers in Springboro don't like the fact that their W2 for FY 2012 was more than their W2 in FY2011, then they probably didn't need the money anyway.
Middletown teachers sacrificed for their children, just like most of the residents of Springboro do everyday for their children.
Mr. Petrey wouldn't take the job of superintendent unless he got $20K more than what the board wanted to pay (which is basically a 20% raise) and guess what - he got what he wanted - no questions asked. So now Mr. Petrey and the board want the teachers to be happy with their current salary and they are not allowed to ask for more - sounds a little hypocritical to me - don't you agree?

As for the Middletown teachers - sure they all have jobs now but how many are looking to move out of the district or change jobs altogether? Do you think that teachers can't get jobs elsewhere? How many good teachers can we lose in Springboro before the quality of eduction suffers even more than it is currently? And your comment about Middletown teachers suffering for their children - are you insinuating that Springboro teachers don't do the same - if so shame on you!
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#24556
May 2, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Petrey wouldn't take the job of superintendent unless he got $20K more than what the board wanted to pay (which is basically a 20% raise) and guess what - he got what he wanted - no questions asked. So now Mr. Petrey and the board want the teachers to be happy with their current salary and they are not allowed to ask for more - sounds a little hypocritical to me - don't you agree?
As for the Middletown teachers - sure they all have jobs now but how many are looking to move out of the district or change jobs altogether? Do you think that teachers can't get jobs elsewhere? How many good teachers can we lose in Springboro before the quality of eduction suffers even more than it is currently? And your comment about Middletown teachers suffering for their children - are you insinuating that Springboro teachers don't do the same - if so shame on you!
Mr. Petrey also took a straight salary, no pick up included or hidden from the public, no car allowance hidden from the public, no health club dues, etc etc etc.

Mr. Petrey also has to come in and save the education of 2000 plus kids who have not been getting the education the taxpayers have been funding.

Eventually every good teacher leaves either through retirement, spouse is transferred elsewhere, natural attrition, boredom, better job in different field, decides to have a family, or just quits.

Wherever those teachers go they will find much of the same stuff making the grass green there as well. No job is perfect, no work conditions are ideal, not all coworkers are as effervescent as I am, and pay varies just as dramatically as the rest.

The teachers for Middletown were not economically tone deaf and stepped up, will you?
LOL in Boro

Piqua, OH

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#24557
May 2, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Petrey wouldn't take the job of superintendent unless he got $20K more than what the board wanted to pay (which is basically a 20% raise) and guess what - he got what he wanted - no questions asked. So now Mr. Petrey and the board want the teachers to be happy with their current salary and they are not allowed to ask for more - sounds a little hypocritical to me - don't you agree?
As for the Middletown teachers - sure they all have jobs now but how many are looking to move out of the district or change jobs altogether? Do you think that teachers can't get jobs elsewhere? How many good teachers can we lose in Springboro before the quality of eduction suffers even more than it is currently? And your comment about Middletown teachers suffering for their children - are you insinuating that Springboro teachers don't do the same - if so shame on you!
Well, we do know that just recently, one Middletown teacher wanted to get a job in Springboro so badly that she tried to trump up false charges of wrong doing against the board. It apppears that one of the SHS high school assistant principals had spoken out of turn promising favors that he had no authority to deliver, causing a real drama (as our SHS prinicpals often do).
Wonder if this assistant principal will be the "chosen one" for the job of high school principal on Mr. Petrey's student survey? Stay tuned for the continuing drama, this season under the direction of Mr. Petrey, who is one of the highest paid school superintendents in the state of Ohio.
Hold On

Springboro, OH

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#24558
May 2, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
<quoted text>Mr. Petrey wouldn't take the job of superintendent unless he got $20K more than what the board wanted to pay (which is basically a 20% raise) and guess what - he got what he wanted - no questions asked. So now Mr. Petrey and the board want the teachers to be happy with their current salary and they are not allowed to ask for more - sounds a little hypocritical to me - don't you agree?

As for the Middletown teachers - sure they all have jobs now but how many are looking to move out of the district or change jobs altogether? Do you think that teachers can't get jobs elsewhere? How many good teachers can we lose in Springboro before the quality of eduction suffers even more than it is currently? And your comment about Middletown teachers suffering for their children - are you insinuating that Springboro teachers don't do the same - if so shame on you!
I agree with you!!! And what kinds of points were those being made about Middletown anyway? Who wants to be compared to Middletown schools? No thanks!
questions more questions

Franklin, OH

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#24559
May 2, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Petrey <<<<snip >>>>>don't you agree?
As for the Middletown teachers - sure they all have jobs now but how many are looking to move out of the district or change jobs altogether? Do you think that teachers can't get jobs elsewhere? How many good teachers can we lose in Springboro before the quality of eduction suffers even more than it is currently? And your comment about Middletown teachers suffering for their children - are you insinuating that Springboro teachers don't do the same - if so shame on you!
No I do not agree. Obviously you have not read and compared Petrey's contract which is up front salary versus the previous one with all kinds of hidden add ons over and above the published salary.And look around and see what the total compensation is for other superintendents.Well above Petrey's package.

As for teachers able to get jobs elsewhere.. will you all make up your minds which way you want to argue? One day your lamenting the layoffs of teachers all over the state and districts allowing staff levels to be lowered through attrition. The next you are acting like a teacher can easily get a job if unhappy. Which is it? Are Districts cutting back or is it open season and everyone who is certified can pick and choose which district they want to go to because of the vast amount of openings ? Also someone argued the other day that teachers with ten plus years,no other district will hire them because of the added expense. So which is it?
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#24560
May 2, 2013
 

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That sounds pretty snooty, considering where most of you folks came from.
Taxpaying Voter

Piqua, OH

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#24561
May 2, 2013
 

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raises wrote:
<quoted text>
You are exactly right. But the BOE is proposing no increases in anything whatsoever for the forseeable future. Is that fair after some not getting a raise for 4 years? Some 3? A majority 2 years?
Of Course That's Fair! If you have a job, teacher or whatever,
you have more than lots of your neighbors have. Stop being so greedy and be happy! Priceless!

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