Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,520

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Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24172 Apr 12, 2013
Really just the facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Be a part of the solution, not the problem. Where is your response to fixing the problem you so eloquently perceive? Maybe if you suggest some solutions, the paid professionals can respond. Even paid professionals don't have all the answers. I mean, everyone knows you do, but....
We have had this problem for years, no one addresses the issue of 2000 plus kids not getting the education the taxpayers are funding. The system papers over these kids lack of knowledge with semantics to make it sound like progress is being made. In actuality, we are regressing for many children from third grade onward.

Until the professional educators in this school system accept the fact that 32% on a math test is not PROFICIENT, the children will continue to pay the price.
poundsand

Miamisburg, OH

#24173 Apr 12, 2013
Reject Forced Unionism wrote:
<quoted text>
boro beef, your tunnel vision attitude of union indoctrination projects your ignorance individual rights and freedom of choice!
Would YOU like your choice "To Eat Or Not To Eat" at a restaurant taken away, just because you were employed as a "cook" in that restaurant?

Well, that's exactly what the practice of forced unionism is doing ...stripping employees of their freedom of individual choice in the work place.
great response to an idiotic comparison.
Get Real

Piqua, OH

#24174 Apr 12, 2013
borobeef wrote:
<quoted text>
Why doesn't David petroni choose springboro schools for his own children?
No bull about it, borobeef, There's just no way to FORCE every child in our community into a classroom with a union teacher!
Thank God for our rights in our homes to exercise our freedom of choice! Why do YOU have a problem with our Freedom?
So sad that our Springboro teachers do not have individual choice of work place freedom in the classroom. No wonder our Springboro teachers have such low morale!
May God Bless Us All!
Not another tax

Dayton, OH

#24175 Apr 12, 2013
borobeef wrote:
<quoted text>
Why doesn't David petroni choose springboro schools for his own children?
With the narrow minded attitude of the SEA would you? Can you imagine how his kids would be retaliated against? He is the perfect board member. Nothing to lose!
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24176 Apr 12, 2013
borobeef wrote:
<quoted text>
Why doesn't David petroni choose springboro schools for his own children?
Why don't you worry about educating the 2000 plus kids that are already in your system that aren't getting the education the taxpayers are funding?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24177 Apr 12, 2013
borobeef wrote:
<quoted text>
It's also hard when people won't face reality or take responsibility for helping their own children. The teachers cant raise your kids. Take the time to study with them. Help them with their homework. Meet their teachers. Ask their teachers what YOU can do to help your struggling student.
As you may have noted from my previous points, the vast majority of residents of this community do not wish for you to raise their children.

You can however impact the education of the 2000 plus children already in your school system that are not receiving the education the taxpayers are funding.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24178 Apr 12, 2013
borobeef wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you think springboro compares to the state averages? If you think the OGT standards are too low have you contacted some at the state level to discuss your ideas as to how Ohio can better provide and support public education?
Or we can just do better on our own. We do not need the state to sanction our rise in the level of academic expectation we prefer.

Your suggestion that we sacrifice another batch of our children's education to the low expectation gods in Columbus is laughable.

Do a better job teaching and the kids will learn more and get more correct answers on the test thus raising the scores.

What we are doing now would be sterling in Dayton, but in Springboro, we expect more than 20% of our 8th graders to pass the math test.
Really just the facts

Springboro, OH

#24179 Apr 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
We have had this problem for years, no one addresses the issue of 2000 plus kids not getting the education the taxpayers are funding. The system papers over these kids lack of knowledge with semantics to make it sound like progress is being made. In actuality, we are regressing for many children from third grade onward.
Until the professional educators in this school system accept the fact that 32% on a math test is not PROFICIENT, the children will continue to pay the price.
If you recognize we have "had this problem for years", then you should be able to offer some good solutions to fix the problem, shouldn't you? I am just looking for one solution. Just one. As I have said before, repeating the same thing over and over and over again doesn't fix the problem. It really just becomes loud background noise.
Really just the facts

Springboro, OH

#24180 Apr 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Or we can just do better on our own. We do not need the state to sanction our rise in the level of academic expectation we prefer.
Your suggestion that we sacrifice another batch of our children's education to the low expectation gods in Columbus is laughable.
Do a better job teaching and the kids will learn more and get more correct answers on the test thus raising the scores.
What we are doing now would be sterling in Dayton, but in Springboro, we expect more than 20% of our 8th graders to pass the math test.
So, teach to the test then?

And please offer a suggestion how to "do a better job teaching".
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24181 Apr 12, 2013
Really just the facts wrote:
<quoted text>
If you recognize we have "had this problem for years", then you should be able to offer some good solutions to fix the problem, shouldn't you? I am just looking for one solution. Just one. As I have said before, repeating the same thing over and over and over again doesn't fix the problem. It really just becomes loud background noise.
Perhaps, but are these results factual or not? Please provide the argument that compels everyone to keep doing what they are doing because this is good enough. I am begging you to defend those who produce such results.

These are the results necessary to be considered Excellent with Distinction or rated as an A level school in the state of Ohio.

I believe we can do much better than this and should demand as much from our children and teachers.

When 80% of the 8th graders taking this test, fail this test, I think we have a problem that must be fixed.

Now which teachers need a raise because they are not paid enough given the results we are enjoying?

The ones making over $30/hour or the ones making over $63/hour or the ones in between?

This is how much a teacher in the Springboro School District actually makes per hour.

$36,500 +$5110 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund /1350 hours =$30.82/hour
$48,000 +$6720 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$40.53/hour
$60,000 +$8400 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$50.66/hour
$75,000 +$10,500 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$63.33/hour

And this is what we receive in return after 8 years in our school system,
80% scoring a D or F on the Ohio Achievement Assessment test.

8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
This is the low bar the state sets for every school in Ohio so even the urban schools can pass something.

State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)

.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F

D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D

C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C

B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B

A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A

With Mr. Malone's scale of actual grading, we see that 80% of the children who took the Ohio Achievement Assessment Math Test are not getting the education the taxpayers are funding?

Again, who is underpaid for the above results?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24182 Apr 12, 2013
Really just the facts wrote:
<quoted text>
So, teach to the test then?
And please offer a suggestion how to "do a better job teaching".
You could just teach the curriculum, if you just do that and the students master that, then the test will be a breeze.

They have all of the practice tests available on line on the ODE website, look at them for yourselves.

These are not mind numbingly difficult if we have done our job teaching the curriculum.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24183 Apr 12, 2013
Somehow with all the bluster about nothing I note that the Booster Scandal has received scant attention.

Front page Headline in the Dayton Daily News of us being defrauded from 2004 until June 2012 of over $439,000. That was money that was raised by hard working, dedicated, volunteer efforts by parents in this community under the mistaken assumption that it was all for the kids.

The $439,000 they discovered via a forensic audit covered just 8 years of this man's 20 year reign. It is based upon the discover of over 300 checks written either to him or to cash at the bank where the monies were deposited.

None of the $439,000 that he pled guilty to stealing was cash, it was only the checks that he pleaded guilty to in court.

How many believe that ONLY $439,000 was taken from our efforts when so much of the booster business is transpired in cash? Working in the concession stands I have witnessed untold amounts of cash collected by the volunteer workers.

If this man would steal $439,000 by leaving a paper trail of cashed checks, how greedy do you think he got when it came to cash sitting on the kitchen table that no one bothered to count?

Where are the detractors of Mr. Petroni and Mr Rigano now that the full story begins to come out in bits and pieces? Their dogged pursuit of the truth was rewarded by brutal attacks on their character and intentions.

How many other subsections of fund raising were also looted in a similar manner by different people who controlled only those accounts under the same conditions?

Whose money was forced to make up the shortfalls left by the lax oversight of previous school boards, booster boards, and the silent complicity from an equally lax athletic department?
Fat Chance

Lebanon, OH

#24184 Apr 12, 2013
This whole process has been pitiful. The push back, the vileness, the denial, the abject hatred have all soured me on my faith in these people who lead these organizations. I have little trust that my efforts are actually being used the way they say they are. It makes me want to puke, I bet that number is north of a million. I go to Centerville's School House Park and wonder why Springboro does not have anything like this given the amount of resources we provide, now I know, its because people are being allowed to rob us blind.
I like the transparency project, but when will it apply to these clubs raising all this money in the dark? I agree with Mr. Wiedeman, 10,000 eyes watching the pot greatly reduces monkey business.
Really just the facts

Springboro, OH

#24185 Apr 12, 2013
Fat Chance wrote:
This whole process has been pitiful. The push back, the vileness, the denial, the abject hatred have all soured me on my faith in these people who lead these organizations. I have little trust that my efforts are actually being used the way they say they are. It makes me want to puke, I bet that number is north of a million. I go to Centerville's School House Park and wonder why Springboro does not have anything like this given the amount of resources we provide, now I know, its because people are being allowed to rob us blind.
I like the transparency project, but when will it apply to these clubs raising all this money in the dark? I agree with Mr. Wiedeman, 10,000 eyes watching the pot greatly reduces monkey business.
Schoolhouse park is there because the citizens of washington twp and centerville pay a 2 mil levy for such park services.
Really just the facts

Springboro, OH

#24186 Apr 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps, but are these results factual or not? Please provide the argument that compels everyone to keep doing what they are doing because this is good enough. I am begging you to defend those who produce such results.
These are the results necessary to be considered Excellent with Distinction or rated as an A level school in the state of Ohio.
I believe we can do much better than this and should demand as much from our children and teachers.
When 80% of the 8th graders taking this test, fail this test, I think we have a problem that must be fixed.
Now which teachers need a raise because they are not paid enough given the results we are enjoying?
The ones making over $30/hour or the ones making over $63/hour or the ones in between?
This is how much a teacher in the Springboro School District actually makes per hour.
$36,500 +$5110 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund /1350 hours =$30.82/hour
$48,000 +$6720 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$40.53/hour
$60,000 +$8400 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$50.66/hour
$75,000 +$10,500 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$63.33/hour
And this is what we receive in return after 8 years in our school system,
80% scoring a D or F on the Ohio Achievement Assessment test.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
This is the low bar the state sets for every school in Ohio so even the urban schools can pass something.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
With Mr. Malone's scale of actual grading, we see that 80% of the children who took the Ohio Achievement Assessment Math Test are not getting the education the taxpayers are funding?
Again, who is underpaid for the above results?
More background noise and no solutions. Why do people, such as yourself always take the easy road? Its so easy to complain about this and that, say what is wrong with this and that, but when asked to offer solutions and help.....sorry, can't do that. Its up to someone else. You are definitely adept at pointing out the problems with everything. At least you know how to cut and paste pretty well. You have definitely mastered that.

"I think we have a problem that needs to be fixed". I ask again, how would you fix it??????????
Really just the facts

Springboro, OH

#24187 Apr 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
You could just teach the curriculum, if you just do that and the students master that, then the test will be a breeze.
They have all of the practice tests available on line on the ODE website, look at them for yourselves.
These are not mind numbingly difficult if we have done our job teaching the curriculum.
So based on your comments and the data provided over and over and over again here, have 80% of the teachers failed?
Really just the facts

Springboro, OH

#24188 Apr 12, 2013
Fat Chance wrote:
This whole process has been pitiful. The push back, the vileness, the denial, the abject hatred have all soured me on my faith in these people who lead these organizations. I have little trust that my efforts are actually being used the way they say they are. It makes me want to puke, I bet that number is north of a million. I go to Centerville's School House Park and wonder why Springboro does not have anything like this given the amount of resources we provide, now I know, its because people are being allowed to rob us blind.
I like the transparency project, but when will it apply to these clubs raising all this money in the dark? I agree with Mr. Wiedeman, 10,000 eyes watching the pot greatly reduces monkey business.
Good thing is, orgnizations are always looking for people to get involved. You can volunteer and help "clean up" and make those organizations "trustworthy" again.
How come

Lebanon, OH

#24189 Apr 12, 2013
Really just the facts wrote:
<quoted text>
More background noise and no solutions. Why do people, such as yourself always take the easy road? Its so easy to complain about this and that, say what is wrong with this and that, but when asked to offer solutions and help.....sorry, can't do that. Its up to someone else. You are definitely adept at pointing out the problems with everything. At least you know how to cut and paste pretty well. You have definitely mastered that.
"I think we have a problem that needs to be fixed". I ask again, how would you fix it??????????
Ask the professional educators to defend their work? Why aren't they the ones solving this problem, isn't that what they get paid for? Are just watching's presentation factual? if not what is wrong with it and why shouldn't we pay any attention to the data?
How come

Lebanon, OH

#24190 Apr 12, 2013
Really just the facts wrote:
<quoted text>
So based on your comments and the data provided over and over and over again here, have 80% of the teachers failed?
I guess if your product is 80% failing, yeah. I think just watching only gave us math scores, so maybe just the math teachers aren't doing the job.
The Whole Truth

Piqua, OH

#24191 Apr 12, 2013
Really just the facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Good thing is, orgnizations are always looking for people to get involved. You can volunteer and help "clean up" and make those organizations "trustworthy" again.
That's exactly the type of good citizenship role models that our school children and community members have in the good leadership of our Springboro Board of Education representatives, Mrs. Kohls, Mr. Petroni, and Mr. Rigano.
A few years ago, these three proud civic-minded private citizens, although busy in their own professional lives and family responsibilities, felt compelled to get involved educating school district voters of ways to ensure that the children of the Springboro community receive an excellent education while keeping the costs of that education affordable, by carefully adhering to responsible spending.
Over the course of five failed unnecessary levies, and two school board elections, Mrs. Kohls, Mr. Petroni, and Mr. Rigano stayed to the task of running successful school board representative campaigns, getting elected by winning the trust and support of Springboro parents and tax-paying homeowners; and in just over a year of public service as reform minded elected officials, Mrs. Kohls, Mr. Petroni, and Mr. Rigano and our new district leaders have done more financially meeting the needs of our children first, than previous board members had ignored for years, including safety transportation and properties repairs/maintenance.
Without board members Mrs. Kohls, Mr. Petroni, and Mr. Rigano standing firm on principles of transparency and accountability,
asking the tough questions stirring up the cover-up, this pay-to-play scam would have never been brought to light.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! We appreciate your hard work and great accomplishments doing what's right to make Springboro a better place for our families to live, work, learn ... and Play Sports!
Please know of our continued support and best wishes for success during the difficult challenges facing our school district.
Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!

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