Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31879 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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figure it out

Girard, OH

#24153 Apr 12, 2013
transparency wrote:
<quoted text>
How many Springboro students graduate and go on to college? Is it just 20%? Do 80% of Springboro graduates live in poverty because they are so undereducated they can't support themselves? That's what your "data" supports.
First of all, the number one error is you're comparing American students with fellow American students. To gain a better perspective of Just Watching's position, you must compare American students to their international peers. Of course, the figures Just Watching has been posting don't represent Springboro schools alone. They represent virtually all of Ohio's and America's public school systems. The once proud American system of public education is being shattered and broken by the many liberal agendas. The libs have gotten really slick about disguising these agendas within the cirriculum so that few will dare to stand up and speak out against them.
Really just the facts

Springboro, OH

#24154 Apr 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't have anything attack the messenger.
No argument about anything, just nonsense.
Here is something to argue, a kid gets 42% correct on his Ohio Graduation Test, would you hire them?
Depends on the job. Does he/she need to know when Ohio became a state or Dante's Divine Comedy to run a crane or backhoe? Nope. And those jobs are very important.
Really just the facts

Springboro, OH

#24155 Apr 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
not evil wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes genius but the other person referred to 2010 forward. Raises given around 2008 is not in dispute. Yes, look all the way through. If you scroll down to around page 18 or 19 of the document, which I just did, it shows the continuation of the data the poster is referring to. Didn't you wonder why the data stopped at 2011??? Of course you didn't because the data listed from 2011-2013 doesn't serve your argument.
Now which teachers need a raise because they are not paid enough?
The ones making over $30/hour or the ones making over $63/hour or the ones in between?
This is how much a teacher in the Springboro School District actually makes per hour.
$36,500 +$5110 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund /1350 hours =$30.82/hour
$48,000 +$6720 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$40.53/hour
$60,000 +$8400 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$50.66/hour
$75,000 +$10,500 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$63.33/hour
And this is what we receive in return after 8 years in our school system,
80% scoring a D or F on the Ohio Achievement Assessment test.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
This is the low bar the state sets for every school in Ohio so even the urban schools can pass something.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
With Mr. Malone's scale of actual grading, we see that 80% of the children who took the Ohio Achievement Assessment Math Test are not getting the education the taxpayers are funding?
Again, who is underpaid for the above results?
As usual...just keep repeating the same things over and over, yelling louder and louder and maybe you wont have to say you were incorrect. You have said that teachers have been getting raises....clearly the data, provided by the schools themselves, shows that most - 92%, have not since 2010/2011. But again, that doesn't meet your argument, so you gloss over it and then deflect the argument to - well, how many of them are underpaid?
Really just the facts

Springboro, OH

#24156 Apr 12, 2013
borobeef wrote:
<quoted text>
How are 2000 kids not getting g an education? Are they going to school? Do they need additional help they are not receiving at home? Who is going to pay for above and beyond help? If each child learns at a different pace is it my job to pay more taxes so your child can get more obstruction? If the other 5500 students in the District aren't in the same situation does that mean they are succeeding? What can we do to help the 2000 kids you claim can't keep up with the other 5500?
Just Watching wont answer those great questions. Dont bother. He/she is the type of person that is very good at pointing out problems, or perceived problems (which is easy), but lacks sorely in solutions (which is hard)- and he wants others to do it.
Not another tax

Dayton, OH

#24157 Apr 12, 2013
I applaud our current BOE and others who helped uncover this criminal behavior It is an abosolute shame that it happened for so long and the former administration did not do their due dillegence. They had the same opportunity to uncover this as our current administration did. Thats the problem when the fox watches the hen house and the same people run things year after year after year. Business as usual.

BOE please keep turning over rocks! There is more but they are running scared now.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130411/N...
Not another tax

Dayton, OH

#24158 Apr 12, 2013
transparency wrote:
<quoted text>
Was this the athletic directors job? To police the boosters? Why weren't the booster board members demanding checks and balances?
YES!!!!!!!!!! It was the AD's job to do everything they could before approving the pay to play fees!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder what the folks that held the meeting at North Park think now.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24159 Apr 12, 2013
Really just the facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Just Watching wont answer those great questions. Dont bother. He/she is the type of person that is very good at pointing out problems, or perceived problems (which is easy), but lacks sorely in solutions (which is hard)- and he wants others to do it.
Perhaps we should ask the professional educators who are paid to work on this problem. Where are their responses?
Reject Forced Unionism

Piqua, OH

#24160 Apr 12, 2013
boro beef wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you eat at a restaurant if the cooked refused to?
boro beef, your tunnel vision attitude of union indoctrination projects your ignorance individual rights and freedom of choice!

Would YOU like your choice "To Eat Or Not To Eat" at a restaurant taken away, just because you were employed as a "cook" in that restaurant?

Well, that's exactly what the practice of forced unionism is doing ...stripping employees of their freedom of individual
choice in the work place.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24161 Apr 12, 2013
borobeef wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think every child should score at the apex of all standardized tests? You say there are good, bad, and mediocre teachers, correct? Does every child in the class of a good teacher score at or near the top? Does every child in the class of a bad teacher score below proficient? What is wrong with celebrating what probably is a success for those children who struggle to learn? Obviously you are aware that intellect and comprehension and even test anxiety vary as each person is unique. I think every teacher should strive to make an effort to provide every child with the best tools to succeed. And if you feel there are educators in Springboro who are not working with the best interests of the students at the forefront please contact the building principals and express your concerns. But to sit here day after day and post about how the teachers are failing the students? That is hostile and irresponsible.
When 2000 plus kids are not getting the education the taxpayers have funded we have a problem that cannot be swept under the rug. The stakes are too high for too many children to ignore them. Let the professional educators provide the community with solutions that fit within the range of resources we have to deploy in this matter..

Reporting the facts is neither hostile nor irresponsible.

Sweeping the facts under the carpet is both irresponsible and passive aggressive hostile to the 200 plus children who are losing out on the education they were promised.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24162 Apr 12, 2013
Not another tax wrote:
<quoted text>
YES!!!!!!!!!! It was the AD's job to do everything they could before approving the pay to play fees!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder what the folks that held the meeting at North Park think now.
Mr. Holtrey was not looking out for the best interest of the children in my opinion, but rather for the union membership.

Below is a message Mr. Holtrey blasted out over the school's computers on May 5, 2009 at 1:44 p.m. It was all part of a program to pass a levy campaign through the judicious use of veiled threats and dire consequences. Thankfully the people of this community rejected such tactics.

Today is a very important election for our community and our school district. When most people think about Springboro the thing that comes to mind the most is our excellent schools. If the levy passes the district is going to have to make cuts. If the levy fails there are going to be additional cuts and a large burden is going to be put on families that have kids in the district. Pay to participate fees are going to be $475 per sport at the high school and $350 for Jr. high with a family cap of $1900 per year.

We have not discussed what we are going to charge our youth programs to use the football field, gymnasiums or wrestling rooms. I am pretty certain those numbers will go up quite bit as well if they are even permitted to use the facilities.

Please join me and vote “yes” today for our kids and our programs. Without this levy there are a lot of kids that will not be able to affort to participate in athletic programs.

Thanks

Troy

Troy Holtrey
Interim Athletic Director
Springboro High School
1675 S. Main Street
Springboro, Oh 45066
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24163 Apr 12, 2013
borobeef wrote:
<quoted text>
A third of all Springboro graduates aren't prepared yo meet the world? Why? Because they have to take remedial classes in college? Or because they can't get accepted to college? I don't really understand what you're getting at here.
Life is hard, its much harder if you lack the necessary basic skill set required today.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24164 Apr 12, 2013
borobeef wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh Doug. I guess we will have to do this again. You're still stuck on the hostility you said you didn't have. What level of education do you think you're funding? One on one tutoring for every child you claim is failing? What do you think you're paying for???
These are the results necessary to be considered Excellent with Distinction or rated as an A level school in the state of Ohio.

I believe we can do much better than this and should demand as much from our children and teachers.

When 80% of the 8th graders taking this test, fail this test, I think we have a problem that must be fixed.

Now which teachers need a raise because they are not paid enough given the results we are enjoying?

The ones making over $30/hour or the ones making over $63/hour or the ones in between?

This is how much a teacher in the Springboro School District actually makes per hour.

$36,500 +$5110 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund /1350 hours =$30.82/hour
$48,000 +$6720 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$40.53/hour
$60,000 +$8400 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$50.66/hour
$75,000 +$10,500 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$63.33/hour

And this is what we receive in return after 8 years in our school system,
80% scoring a D or F on the Ohio Achievement Assessment test.

8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
This is the low bar the state sets for every school in Ohio so even the urban schools can pass something.

State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)

.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F

D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D

C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C

B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B

A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A

With Mr. Malone's scale of actual grading, we see that 80% of the children who took the Ohio Achievement Assessment Math Test are not getting the education the taxpayers are funding?

Again, who is underpaid for the above results?
borobeef

Dayton, OH

#24165 Apr 12, 2013
Reject Forced Unionism wrote:
<quoted text>
boro beef, your tunnel vision attitude of union indoctrination projects your ignorance individual rights and freedom of choice!
Would YOU like your choice "To Eat Or Not To Eat" at a restaurant taken away, just because you were employed as a "cook" in that restaurant?
Well, that's exactly what the practice of forced unionism is doing ...stripping employees of their freedom of individual
choice in the work place.
Why doesn't David petroni choose springboro schools for his own children?
borobeef

Dayton, OH

#24166 Apr 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
When 2000 plus kids are not getting the education the taxpayers have funded we have a problem that cannot be swept under the rug. The stakes are too high for too many children to ignore them. Let the professional educators provide the community with solutions that fit within the range of resources we have to deploy in this matter..
Reporting the facts is neither hostile nor irresponsible.
Sweeping the facts under the carpet is both irresponsible and passive aggressive hostile to the 200 plus children who are losing out on the education they were promised.
Can you please clarify the 2000 children who are not getting the education taxpayers have funded? What do you believe we are all funding that these children aren't receiving? Is it tutoring? Is it more individual time? What exactly are you accusing the schools of doing to fail here?
borobeef

Dayton, OH

#24167 Apr 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Life is hard, its much harder if you lack the necessary basic skill set required today.
It's also hard when people won't face reality or take responsibility for helping their own children. The teachers cant raise your kids. Take the time to study with them. Help them with their homework. Meet their teachers. Ask their teachers what YOU can do to help your struggling student.
borobeef

Dayton, OH

#24168 Apr 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
These are the results necessary to be considered Excellent with Distinction or rated as an A level school in the state of Ohio.
I believe we can do much better than this and should demand as much from our children and teachers.
When 80% of the 8th graders taking this test, fail this test, I think we have a problem that must be fixed.
Now which teachers need a raise because they are not paid enough given the results we are enjoying?
The ones making over $30/hour or the ones making over $63/hour or the ones in between?
This is how much a teacher in the Springboro School District actually makes per hour.
$36,500 +$5110 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund /1350 hours =$30.82/hour
$48,000 +$6720 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$40.53/hour
$60,000 +$8400 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$50.66/hour
$75,000 +$10,500 the taxpayer picks up for your retirement fund/1350 hours =$63.33/hour
And this is what we receive in return after 8 years in our school system,
80% scoring a D or F on the Ohio Achievement Assessment test.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
This is the low bar the state sets for every school in Ohio so even the urban schools can pass something.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
With Mr. Malone's scale of actual grading, we see that 80% of the children who took the Ohio Achievement Assessment Math Test are not getting the education the taxpayers are funding?
Again, who is underpaid for the above results?
How do you think springboro compares to the state averages? If you think the OGT standards are too low have you contacted some at the state level to discuss your ideas as to how Ohio can better provide and support public education?
Really just the facts

Springboro, OH

#24169 Apr 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps we should ask the professional educators who are paid to work on this problem. Where are their responses?
Be a part of the solution, not the problem. Where is your response to fixing the problem you so eloquently perceive? Maybe if you suggest some solutions, the paid professionals can respond. Even paid professionals don't have all the answers. I mean, everyone knows you do, but....
Reality Bytes

Piqua, OH

#24170 Apr 12, 2013
Really just the facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Just Watching wont answer those great questions. Dont bother. He/she is the type of person that is very good at pointing out problems, or perceived problems (which is easy), but lacks sorely in solutions (which is hard)- and he wants others to do it.
Being a critic is easy; but problem solving and coming up with solutions that really work is the hardest work there is. And that is just a proven fact.

Our school district is made up of pro-levy union activists/supporters who offer nothing to solve problems, but only criticize and ridicule, claiming themselves Victims; while our reform minded BOE majority and supporters offer SOLUTIONS that are proven successful in budget reform first and levy alternatives; and making sure that our school children are never VICTIMS of unionism. It is clear to Springboro parents and taxpaying homeowners what this board represents AND it is clearly for kids first.(after all, our adults have representation with their unions).

After just one year of public service as BOE majority leadership, Mrs. Kohls, Mr. Petroni, Mr. Rigano, working with our new school district administration team, have accomplished more in the best interest of our school children, than has ever been done by board members prior to 2010, when Mrs. Kohls came on board. Our school staff of administrators and building principals are given credit due for their roles in educating their teachers of our school district's new philosophy of children first budgeting, which supports and reinforces the classroom teacher.

But change comes slowly, and our school administrators and building principals have a lot more work to do, inspiring teachers under their leadership to a broader vision of our children's future, dispelling this dark tunnel-vision cloud of the SEA's "Victim Project" which is now being promoted throughout our schools and community by SEA/Youth union activists by the "wearing of the red."

In the "bad old days of the past" if districts ran short of money a cook book of pressure techniques were used to get the levy passed. Our children first budgeting BOE majoirty have proven that these emotionally-manipulative tactics hurt our kids, and they are unnecessary; just as the current tactics of the SEA's Victim Project is emotinally-manipulative and unnecessary.
These selfish tactics of the SEA seek only to pressure voters
into believing there is a Victim here, and that you, the Voter, needs to protect the teacher who is being victimized by the BOE majority. We must not be taken in by these self-interest manipulative negotiations 101. Voters must stand firm in support our children first, and fully support our elected officials who are doing what's right for our school children and our community.
Reality Bytes

Piqua, OH

#24171 Apr 12, 2013
Really just the facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Be a part of the solution, not the problem. Where is your response to fixing the problem you so eloquently perceive? Maybe if you suggest some solutions, the paid professionals can respond. Even paid professionals don't have all the answers. I mean, everyone knows you do, but....
Really?...just the facts?...

Fact is, you are the problem, and the solution is not ridicule, which is all you offer.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24172 Apr 12, 2013
Really just the facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Be a part of the solution, not the problem. Where is your response to fixing the problem you so eloquently perceive? Maybe if you suggest some solutions, the paid professionals can respond. Even paid professionals don't have all the answers. I mean, everyone knows you do, but....
We have had this problem for years, no one addresses the issue of 2000 plus kids not getting the education the taxpayers are funding. The system papers over these kids lack of knowledge with semantics to make it sound like progress is being made. In actuality, we are regressing for many children from third grade onward.

Until the professional educators in this school system accept the fact that 32% on a math test is not PROFICIENT, the children will continue to pay the price.

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