Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31918 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

Recommended local sites More... UD sports info, pictures and discussions Are you a UD sports fan? Whether you like basketball, volleyball, soccer, men's or women's teams -- Doesn't matter -- this site is for ... via Dayton Daily News

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Dayton Daily News.

Love the Re-cap

Dayton, OH

#23078 Jan 18, 2013
Re-cap wrote:
Ok now let’s live in the hypothetical world of the Topix bloggers.
All union teachers have left Springboro schools. Now who will teach the students:
Idea 1: Let’s hire people that have worked in the world, real world experience will be good for the students.
Mathematician avg.$52,447
Scientist avg.$86,090
English (Editor) avg.$54,077
Historian avg.$54,400
hmmm – we can’t afford these people – okay, scratch that idea
Idea 2: Let’s hire high school graduates, how hard can it really be to teach. Oh wait a minute, we’ve been saying for months how high school students fail their graduation tests even though the state passes them. Ok, forget that idea; we don’t want failures to teach our kids.
Idea 3: Let’s hire retirees – they need something to do during the day and their experiences will provide good life lessons for the students. Oh, wait a minute, they’re receiving SS payments and if we hire them they will be double dipping – we can’t have that even if it may be cheaper because we don’t have to pay all of the benefits. No double dippers!
Idea 4: OK, let’s just hire teachers but we cannot let them join a union. Great – sounds like a good plan. Oh, wait a minute, after a few years the teachers will want raises – we can’t have that. Ok, after they’ve worked a few years then we will get rid of them and hire fresh teachers at the minimum pay rate.
OK – we have a plan. But.. all of the good teachers coming out of college are interviewing at other schools and avoiding Springboro. The only teachers interviewing at Springboro are the ones nobody else wants to hire. Oh well – they’re cheap right?
Now, on to those student test scores – how do we get the students to learn more so they will be better prepared for the tests?????
Bravo!
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#23079 Jan 18, 2013
RE-cap, please don't use facts with this crowd!
youre kidding right

Dayton, OH

#23080 Jan 18, 2013
Re-cap wrote:
Ok now let’s live in the hypothetical world of the Topix bloggers.
All union teachers have left Springboro schools. Now who will teach the students:
Idea 1: Let’s hire people that have worked in the world, real world experience will be good for the students.
Mathematician avg.$52,447
Scientist avg.$86,090
English (Editor) avg.$54,077
Historian avg.$54,400
hmmm – we can’t afford these people – okay, scratch that idea
Idea 2: Let’s hire high school graduates, how hard can it really be to teach. Oh wait a minute, we’ve been saying for months how high school students fail their graduation tests even though the state passes them. Ok, forget that idea; we don’t want failures to teach our kids.
Idea 3: Let’s hire retirees – they need something to do during the day and their experiences will provide good life lessons for the students. Oh, wait a minute, they’re receiving SS payments and if we hire them they will be double dipping – we can’t have that even if it may be cheaper because we don’t have to pay all of the benefits. No double dippers!
Idea 4: OK, let’s just hire teachers but we cannot let them join a union. Great – sounds like a good plan. Oh, wait a minute, after a few years the teachers will want raises – we can’t have that. Ok, after they’ve worked a few years then we will get rid of them and hire fresh teachers at the minimum pay rate.
OK – we have a plan. But.. all of the good teachers coming out of college are interviewing at other schools and avoiding Springboro. The only teachers interviewing at Springboro are the ones nobody else wants to hire. Oh well – they’re cheap right?
Now, on to those student test scores – how do we get the students to learn more so they will be better prepared for the tests?????
You live in a world of utter illusion all teachers choose to belong to a union.
Who Knows

Cincinnati, OH

#23081 Jan 18, 2013
reality wrote:
<quoted text>
To summarize...
In reading, 23% of 2012's sophomore class scored "proficient" OR BELOW.
In math, 10% of 2012's sophomore class scored "proficient" OR BELOW.
Now just for a moment, try to place yourself in the sneakers of a typical hormone-enraged Boro 15-year-old.
Regardless of how their parents probably feel, a certain percentage out of this 23% and 10% are kids who couldn't care less about their futures and are living 100% in the moment.
Students like this are the way they are for multitudes of reasons, usually much of it having to do with dysfunction at home.
What if anything can a Springboro conversion school do for kids like this?
The January 10 meeting was not held to vote for a Springboro conversion school; but the vote to hire a consulting group
to study and explore, within our community as a whole,
possible answers to the question: "What, IF anything, can a Springboro conversion school do for kids like these "one of a kind" kids?

One size doesn't fit all; We've heard parents who feel strongly opposed to their child attending school without a union teacher in the classroom. Other parents want their child in a classroom in which the teacher can freely teach (without teachers union restrictions) to the individual child's need.

So we have heard some good ideas tossed around; and some parents would like to learn more; And we will never know what advantage a conversion school might be to our kids (including advantages to our "Springboro unmotivated kids" because of dysfunctions in the home), until we pursue our considerations of a conversion school.

It is the civic duty of this community to provide a quality education, while living within the means of our resources, for every child in our school district, including our gifted kids and all other kids whose personal circumstances and unmet educational needs may keep them left behind.
Someone Gets It

Miamisburg, OH

#23082 Jan 18, 2013
Re-cap wrote:
Ok now let’s live in the hypothetical world of the Topix bloggers.
All union teachers have left Springboro schools. Now who will teach the students:
Idea 1: Let’s hire people that have worked in the world, real world experience will be good for the students.
Mathematician avg.$52,447
Scientist avg.$86,090
English (Editor) avg.$54,077
Historian avg.$54,400
hmmm – we can’t afford these people – okay, scratch that idea
Idea 2: Let’s hire high school graduates, how hard can it really be to teach. Oh wait a minute, we’ve been saying for months how high school students fail their graduation tests even though the state passes them. Ok, forget that idea; we don’t want failures to teach our kids.
Idea 3: Let’s hire retirees – they need something to do during the day and their experiences will provide good life lessons for the students. Oh, wait a minute, they’re receiving SS payments and if we hire them they will be double dipping – we can’t have that even if it may be cheaper because we don’t have to pay all of the benefits. No double dippers!
Idea 4: OK, let’s just hire teachers but we cannot let them join a union. Great – sounds like a good plan. Oh, wait a minute, after a few years the teachers will want raises – we can’t have that. Ok, after they’ve worked a few years then we will get rid of them and hire fresh teachers at the minimum pay rate.
OK – we have a plan. But.. all of the good teachers coming out of college are interviewing at other schools and avoiding Springboro. The only teachers interviewing at Springboro are the ones nobody else wants to hire. Oh well – they’re cheap right?
Now, on to those student test scores – how do we get the students to learn more so they will be better prepared for the tests?????
great post!!
Who Know

Cincinnati, OH

#23083 Jan 18, 2013
Who Knows wrote:
<quoted text>
The January 10 meeting was not held to vote for a Springboro conversion school; but the vote to hire a consulting group
to study and explore, within our community as a whole,
possible answers to the question: "What, IF anything, can a Springboro conversion school do for kids like these "one of a kind" kids?
One size doesn't fit all; We've heard parents who feel strongly opposed to their child attending school without a union teacher in the classroom. Other parents want their child in a classroom in which the teacher can freely teach (without teachers union restrictions) to the individual child's need.
So we have heard some good ideas tossed around; and some parents would like to learn more; And we will never know what advantage a conversion school might be to our kids (including advantages to our "Springboro unmotivated kids" because of dysfunctions in the home), until we pursue our considerations of a conversion school.
It is the civic duty of this community to provide a quality education, while living within the means of our resources, for every child in our school district, including our gifted kids and all other kids whose personal circumstances and unmet educational needs may keep them left behind.
Good ideas can lead to better ideas ...

As Winston Churchill said, "No idea is so outlandish that it should not be considered with a searching, but at the same time, a steady eye".
Thoughtful

Miamisburg, OH

#23084 Jan 18, 2013
Who Knows wrote:
<quoted text>
The January 10 meeting was not held to vote for a Springboro conversion school; but the vote to hire a consulting group
to study and explore, within our community as a whole,
possible answers to the question: "What, IF anything, can a Springboro conversion school do for kids like these "one of a kind" kids?
One size doesn't fit all; We've heard parents who feel strongly opposed to their child attending school without a union teacher in the classroom. Other parents want their child in a classroom in which the teacher can freely teach (without teachers union restrictions) to the individual child's need.
So we have heard some good ideas tossed around; and some parents would like to learn more; And we will never know what advantage a conversion school might be to our kids (including advantages to our "Springboro unmotivated kids" because of dysfunctions in the home), until we pursue our considerations of a conversion school.
It is the civic duty of this community to provide a quality education, while living within the means of our resources, for every child in our school district, including our gifted kids and all other kids whose personal circumstances and unmet educational needs may keep them left behind.
Very interesting post and I don't disagree but we need to explore all options and I am not sure how all of that is funded with external consultants. I am concerned with only teaching to state tests but that seems to be the BOE focus. I believe that additional AP courses and more focus on intervention in the elementary schools for struggling kids would lift scores to a greater degree than a charter school but the frustration of many is that the BOE is exploring only one option. I think all would agree that we want the kids to get the best possible education but how we achieve that needs to be a broader piece of work than paying a charter consultant to tell us we need charter schools.
question

Dayton, OH

#23085 Jan 18, 2013
Who Knows wrote:
<quoted text>
The January 10 meeting was not held to vote for a Springboro conversion school; but the vote to hire a consulting group
to study and explore, within our community as a whole,
possible answers to the question: "What, IF anything, can a Springboro conversion school do for kids like these "one of a kind" kids?
One size doesn't fit all; We've heard parents who feel strongly opposed to their child attending school without a union teacher in the classroom. Other parents want their child in a classroom in which the teacher can freely teach (without teachers union restrictions) to the individual child's need.
So we have heard some good ideas tossed around; and some parents would like to learn more; And we will never know what advantage a conversion school might be to our kids (including advantages to our "Springboro unmotivated kids" because of dysfunctions in the home), until we pursue our considerations of a conversion school.
It is the civic duty of this community to provide a quality education, while living within the means of our resources, for every child in our school district, including our gifted kids and all other kids whose personal circumstances and unmet educational needs may keep them left behind.
Last Thursday evening where exactly do you think Todd Petrey was coming from when he made the statement... "a conversion school would involve union teachers"?
huh

Dayton, OH

#23086 Jan 18, 2013
blogg this wrote:
<quoted text>
Please remember that Lebanon has a very large % of students that do not even speak English and they scored better than Springboro. OUCH
So what do these kids speak? Lebanese?
Read the contract

Dayton, OH

#23087 Jan 18, 2013
Who Knows wrote:
<quoted text>
The January 10 meeting was not held to vote for a Springboro conversion school; but the vote to hire a consulting group
to study and explore, within our community as a whole,
possible answers to the question: "What, IF anything, can a Springboro conversion school do for kids like these "one of a kind" kids?
One size doesn't fit all; We've heard parents who feel strongly opposed to their child attending school without a union teacher in the classroom. Other parents want their child in a classroom in which the teacher can freely teach (without teachers union restrictions) to the individual child's need.
So we have heard some good ideas tossed around; and some parents would like to learn more; And we will never know what advantage a conversion school might be to our kids (including advantages to our "Springboro unmotivated kids" because of dysfunctions in the home), until we pursue our considerations of a conversion school.
It is the civic duty of this community to provide a quality education, while living within the means of our resources, for every child in our school district, including our gifted kids and all other kids whose personal circumstances and unmet educational needs may keep them left behind.
Read the Callender contract, the one section that talks about students is the smallest in the entire contract. They don't talk about how they would assess our school population or if they will come up with only one type of school or provide us with an option to choose from. The majority of the contract focuses on money and how other districts operate their conversion schools (lease of buildings, contracts for operations, shared services, collective bargaining agreements, etc.). While your looking at the contract, notice the primary project advisors, they are lawyers and a treasurer/fiscal officer. The one individual that is listed as an education consultant focuses on the legislative, regulatory, and administrative processes within the education, wind energy and publishing industries.

I'm all for looking into opportunities for our kids but is this contract, and is this group the best suited? How are they going to judge our students needs and how are they going to define any advantages to our students?

Just a Simple One

Cincinnati, OH

#23088 Jan 18, 2013
Read the contract wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the Callender contract, the one section that talks about students is the smallest in the entire contract. They don't talk about how they would assess our school population or if they will come up with only one type of school or provide us with an option to choose from. The majority of the contract focuses on money and how other districts operate their conversion schools (lease of buildings, contracts for operations, shared services, collective bargaining agreements, etc.). While your looking at the contract, notice the primary project advisors, they are lawyers and a treasurer/fiscal officer. The one individual that is listed as an education consultant focuses on the legislative, regulatory, and administrative processes within the education, wind energy and publishing industries.
I'm all for looking into opportunities for our kids but is this contract, and is this group the best suited? How are they going to judge our students needs and how are they going to define any advantages to our students?
Now Ima just a simple one, but alls Ima sayin, is through my status quo tunnel vision, only union teachers should be hired
to study edukaytion on my kids. They are already gifted; and we don't need no consulting workers hired in from the outside.
UR a fraid

Dayton, OH

#23089 Jan 18, 2013
Just a Simple One wrote:
<quoted text>
Now Ima just a simple one, but alls Ima sayin, is through my status quo tunnel vision, only union teachers should be hired
to study edukaytion on my kids. They are already gifted; and we don't need no consulting workers hired in from the outside.
This pathetic effort to run interference epitomizes last Thursday's cumulative SEA dog and pony show.
The Springboro teacher's union is GENUINELY AFRAID to allow free and open discussion by those who are interested in ways to improve the educations of the segments of students who tend to fall through the cracks.
certainly worth repeating

Dayton, OH

#23090 Jan 18, 2013
Read the contract wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the Callender contract, the one section that talks about students is the smallest in the entire contract. They don't talk about how they would assess our school population or if they will come up with only one type of school or provide us with an option to choose from. The majority of the contract focuses on money and how other districts operate their conversion schools (lease of buildings, contracts for operations, shared services, collective bargaining agreements, etc.). While your looking at the contract, notice the primary project advisors, they are lawyers and a treasurer/fiscal officer. The one individual that is listed as an education consultant focuses on the legislative, regulatory, and administrative processes within the education, wind energy and publishing industries.
I'm all for looking into opportunities for our kids but is this contract, and is this group the best suited? How are they going to judge our students needs and how are they going to define any advantages to our students?
Observer

Lebanon, OH

#23091 Jan 18, 2013
Re-cap wrote:
Ok now let’s live in the hypothetical world of the Topix bloggers.
All union teachers have left Springboro schools. Now who will teach the students:
Idea 1: Let’s hire people that have worked in the world, real world experience will be good for the students.
Mathematician avg.$52,447
Scientist avg.$86,090
English (Editor) avg.$54,077
Historian avg.$54,400
hmmm – we can’t afford these people – okay, scratch that idea
Idea 2: Let’s hire high school graduates, how hard can it really be to teach. Oh wait a minute, we’ve been saying for months how high school students fail their graduation tests even though the state passes them. Ok, forget that idea; we don’t want failures to teach our kids.
Idea 3: Let’s hire retirees – they need something to do during the day and their experiences will provide good life lessons for the students. Oh, wait a minute, they’re receiving SS payments and if we hire them they will be double dipping – we can’t have that even if it may be cheaper because we don’t have to pay all of the benefits. No double dippers!
Idea 4: OK, let’s just hire teachers but we cannot let them join a union. Great – sounds like a good plan. Oh, wait a minute, after a few years the teachers will want raises – we can’t have that. Ok, after they’ve worked a few years then we will get rid of them and hire fresh teachers at the minimum pay rate.
OK – we have a plan. But.. all of the good teachers coming out of college are interviewing at other schools and avoiding Springboro. The only teachers interviewing at Springboro are the ones nobody else wants to hire. Oh well – they’re cheap right?
Now, on to those student test scores – how do we get the students to learn more so they will be better prepared for the tests?????
Don't those people make that much money working 260 days per year? If you work the numbers to the same number of days a teacher would work, 185, that would be 71% to adjust for the shortened work schedule times $52,447 for a mathematician, that pay would then be $37,237. Plus they would get their summers off, Christmas Break, Spring Break, maybe we shouldn't scratch that idea yet.

2) Your logic is impeccable here, can't argue.

3) Might have a hard time finding enough retirees that would like to take on this task.

4) Thank goodness these non union teachers live in America, if the current school district is not fulfilling their needs, they are free to seek employment elsewhere.

According to Mr. Long, you remember, the guy we could not live without, he gets stacks upon stacks of applications for single openings in this district.
george o the jungle

Dayton, OH

#23092 Jan 19, 2013
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
According to Mr. Long, you remember, the guy we could not live without, he gets stacks upon stacks of applications for single openings in this district.
No doubt George would claim he still does.
Get Real

Cincinnati, OH

#23093 Jan 19, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
This has been ongoing for a number of years. When I spoke in February with Mr. Collins he informed me his greatest difficulty in getting kids to take the test were other kids dissuading them from doing that much work.
My guess is if we let the parents decide early enough in a child's education you would find greater and more successful participation not just in the A/P program but in the entire educational system.
Yet Lebanon parents will pay less for college than your average Springboro parent because twice as many of them have already earned college credits without spending a dime on college tuition.
Celebrating the fact that they have 40% of their kids not getting it and we only have 37% not getting it is a not much to be celebrating.
And considering most of the Proficient scores are failing grades (less than 63%) that amounts to a double whammy and even less to celebrate.
Take a look at the cut scores, this is not just a local issue, it is endemic throughout the state.
While we can't do anything about it elsewhere, we can most certainly change the tune and expectations in Springboro.
You mentioned "if we let the Parents decide early enough in a child's education ...." Not sure what you meant by that but I have a question. Wouldn't having an all day kindergarten give the children that much more to start with? There is so much talk on this site about putting the children's education first but when it comes down to it if it will cost any extra money then in reality our wallets come first.

I agree Springboro could be doing so much more for their kids. Lets offer more AP classes, lets have more intervention in the elementary schools, lets not let any kids down.
Citizens Alert

Cincinnati, OH

#23094 Jan 19, 2013
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
You mentioned "if we let the Parents decide early enough in a child's education ...." Not sure what you meant by that but I have a question. Wouldn't having an all day kindergarten give the children that much more to start with? There is so much talk on this site about putting the children's education first but when it comes down to it if it will cost any extra money then in reality our wallets come first.
I agree Springboro could be doing so much more for their kids. Lets offer more AP classes, lets have more intervention in the elementary schools, lets not let any kids down.
No! having all day kindergarten would not give the children that much more to start with. All day kindergarten would serve only in the best interest of the union "having that much more to start with" by hiring additonal teachers, who in turn would be taxed highly by the SEA union dues for the right to work in Springboro Schools.
Mr. Petrey has already sent out to parents to come explore how costs for all day kindergarten could be met; doesn't Mr. Petrey know that the community has already voted down board member Don Miller's bid for charging taxpayers for his "million dollar a year" all day kindergarten program?
This suggestion for exploring all day kindergarten is further proof that the wants of the Wallets of the Teachers Union are top priority of the SEA over the individuals needs of children.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23095 Jan 19, 2013
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
You mentioned "if we let the Parents decide early enough in a child's education ...." Not sure what you meant by that but I have a question. Wouldn't having an all day kindergarten give the children that much more to start with? There is so much talk on this site about putting the children's education first but when it comes down to it if it will cost any extra money then in reality our wallets come first.
I agree Springboro could be doing so much more for their kids. Lets offer more AP classes, lets have more intervention in the elementary schools, lets not let any kids down.
Much like head start programs that show so much promise, these programs early advantages disappear by third grade. Money could be spent in other areas to gain a more lasting impact on a child's education. There is nothing like peaking in the third grade.

Let's put that money to work where it will gain us the pathways to better final results and classes in high school.'
Waste Wa tchers

Cincinnati, OH

#23096 Jan 19, 2013
Remember that big protest, led by board member Don Miller and SEA activists on January 10, against investing $15,000 of our school tax dollars hiring a non-union professional consulting group to explore why Springboro should consider a conversion school?
(Remember that waste of time that was allowed the boro proud public participants, who ignored the issue, and focused on attacking the character of those representatives on the board?)
We may want to brace ourselves for another one of those roudy prideful demonstrations of clapping and praising the Athletic Department at the January 22 school board meeting.
The meeting agenda is posted on board docs; which includes the request from the HR director asking the board for approval to hire sixteen employees for HS athletic events. The amount of salary to be paid is not posted; but it will be interesting to see if board member Don Miller questions this expense to the taxpayer as "wasteful."
hey Don

Dayton, OH

#23097 Jan 19, 2013
Waste Wa tchers wrote:
Remember that big protest, led by board member Don Miller and SEA activists on January 10, against investing $15,000 of our school tax dollars hiring a non-union professional consulting group to explore why Springboro should consider a conversion school?
(Remember that waste of time that was allowed the boro proud public participants, who ignored the issue, and focused on attacking the character of those representatives on the board?)
We may want to brace ourselves for another one of those roudy prideful demonstrations of clapping and praising the Athletic Department at the January 22 school board meeting.
The meeting agenda is posted on board docs; which includes the request from the HR director asking the board for approval to hire sixteen employees for HS athletic events. The amount of salary to be paid is not posted; but it will be interesting to see if board member Don Miller questions this expense to the taxpayer as "wasteful."
Don Miller quote from 1/10 board meeting..."I would to see district officials conduct a study of all options, not just a conversion school".

Mr. Miller, you're a official in Springboro schools, correct? And you don't like the idea of spending $15,000 for the Calendar Group to conduct a study? Then why don't you take a break from those weekly developmental speech annunciation sessions so that you and your constituents can research alternative ways to better serve struggling as well as gifted Springboro students?
The January 10th board meeting was nothing less than a pre-planned filibuster orchestrated by SEA teachers against having any genuine public open discussion of a conversion school. Bully Boro teachers can't or won't think outside the perimeter of their respective union cards long enough to honestly give a rat's ### about students in this district who are genuinely struggling, or are gifted and are struggling because they are no longer being challenged.
So you don't like Plan A that was tabeled 1/10? OK. Fine. Let's see you come up with Plan B.
You can just forget about trying to convince the people of this district that NOTHING needs to be done to enhance the educations of certain Springboro student segments.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Wedding Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Homosexuality and the Bible (Aug '11) 3 min Siam 36,044
News What would Jesus say about same-sex marriage? (Jul '15) 2 hr Rose_NoHo 4,330
News At gay pride parades, large crowds and increase... 3 hr OUCH 4
News WashPost: Trump Ties to Putin Make World 'Nervous' 8 hr uther pendragon 1
[Guide] Funny maid of honor speech (Sep '14) 12 hr alsabaak 126
News Christine Wicker: Learning to Talk About God an... (Sep '10) 13 hr Joy to the World 29
News Bollywood in Taipei 14 hr TW_sugar_daddio 2
More from around the web