Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,274

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Jim Jones Lives

Lebanon, OH

#23074 Jan 18, 2013
Out of Towner wrote:
<quoted text>
Great job recap!!!!!! You are starting to expose the KOOLAID DRINKERS. Could not agree with you more...You should now be called the "VOICE OF REASON"...
I guess if you want to live in Jonestown.

Are the assessment scores right or wrong?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23075 Jan 18, 2013
Irrespective of where you come down on the issues, it ultimately arrives at the point where we have to decide if we are doing as well as we can. Is there absolutely no other way of doing things? Are we condemned to the same way of doing things that we have always done?

Are these 2000 plus children scoring BELOW 63% on their assessment test doomed to that fate forever?

How long should these children wait?

Each day, each month, each year that ticks by is forever lost to those children.

While we dither and cast aspersions, another child's future slips further to the wayside.
I would love it

Dayton, OH

#23076 Jan 18, 2013
contract me wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you are highly irresponsible and probably need to clarify your communication....either that or you're back peddling now because even you know I'm right. Dr Kohls is a much better representative to serve our children. Of the two I would choose her over Mr. Petroni anytime. When did Mr. Petroni start working with Charter schools...check into that and you may feel what most of us already do. He continues to fight so hard to find a way to put our kids into a school that is old, small, and outdated. For what? He says it's to generate revenue? The school can hold what 120 some kids? And yet he says 2000 are failing? You do the math. This stinks. And, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....we're all adults. I think we can make our own decisions about a conflict of interest issue. Dr Kohls isn't in the business of charter schools. She's in the business of education. Don't try to lump her in with Mr. Petroni. They aren't even on the same level.
Its not my communication. You assume way too much out of a simple sentence. Let me get this out there so you can relax. I fully support Dr. Kohls, Rigano and Petroni! I absolutley oppose Miller, the union, SEA and the Babbalonies. I, like everyone else don't know if the a Charter school will improve Boro but it is worth a study. More importantly I hope this discussion brings to light that our school is not as good as the administrator, teachers and the union would like us to beleive. I hope this discussion wakes everyone up and we all realize there is a ton of room for improvement. Realization is the first step for improvement. We need to realize Excellent with Distinction honors the state bestows upon schools is not worth the paper it is written on.
Re-cap

Piqua, OH

#23077 Jan 18, 2013
Ok now let’s live in the hypothetical world of the Topix bloggers.
All union teachers have left Springboro schools. Now who will teach the students:

Idea 1: Let’s hire people that have worked in the world, real world experience will be good for the students.
Mathematician avg.$52,447
Scientist avg.$86,090
English (Editor) avg.$54,077
Historian avg.$54,400
hmmm – we can’t afford these people – okay, scratch that idea

Idea 2: Let’s hire high school graduates, how hard can it really be to teach. Oh wait a minute, we’ve been saying for months how high school students fail their graduation tests even though the state passes them. Ok, forget that idea; we don’t want failures to teach our kids.

Idea 3: Let’s hire retirees – they need something to do during the day and their experiences will provide good life lessons for the students. Oh, wait a minute, they’re receiving SS payments and if we hire them they will be double dipping – we can’t have that even if it may be cheaper because we don’t have to pay all of the benefits. No double dippers!

Idea 4: OK, let’s just hire teachers but we cannot let them join a union. Great – sounds like a good plan. Oh, wait a minute, after a few years the teachers will want raises – we can’t have that. Ok, after they’ve worked a few years then we will get rid of them and hire fresh teachers at the minimum pay rate.

OK – we have a plan. But.. all of the good teachers coming out of college are interviewing at other schools and avoiding Springboro. The only teachers interviewing at Springboro are the ones nobody else wants to hire. Oh well – they’re cheap right?

Now, on to those student test scores – how do we get the students to learn more so they will be better prepared for the tests?????
Love the Re-cap

Yellow Springs, OH

#23078 Jan 18, 2013
Re-cap wrote:
Ok now let’s live in the hypothetical world of the Topix bloggers.
All union teachers have left Springboro schools. Now who will teach the students:
Idea 1: Let’s hire people that have worked in the world, real world experience will be good for the students.
Mathematician avg.$52,447
Scientist avg.$86,090
English (Editor) avg.$54,077
Historian avg.$54,400
hmmm – we can’t afford these people – okay, scratch that idea
Idea 2: Let’s hire high school graduates, how hard can it really be to teach. Oh wait a minute, we’ve been saying for months how high school students fail their graduation tests even though the state passes them. Ok, forget that idea; we don’t want failures to teach our kids.
Idea 3: Let’s hire retirees – they need something to do during the day and their experiences will provide good life lessons for the students. Oh, wait a minute, they’re receiving SS payments and if we hire them they will be double dipping – we can’t have that even if it may be cheaper because we don’t have to pay all of the benefits. No double dippers!
Idea 4: OK, let’s just hire teachers but we cannot let them join a union. Great – sounds like a good plan. Oh, wait a minute, after a few years the teachers will want raises – we can’t have that. Ok, after they’ve worked a few years then we will get rid of them and hire fresh teachers at the minimum pay rate.
OK – we have a plan. But.. all of the good teachers coming out of college are interviewing at other schools and avoiding Springboro. The only teachers interviewing at Springboro are the ones nobody else wants to hire. Oh well – they’re cheap right?
Now, on to those student test scores – how do we get the students to learn more so they will be better prepared for the tests?????
Bravo!
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#23079 Jan 18, 2013
RE-cap, please don't use facts with this crowd!
youre kidding right

Germantown, OH

#23080 Jan 18, 2013
Re-cap wrote:
Ok now let’s live in the hypothetical world of the Topix bloggers.
All union teachers have left Springboro schools. Now who will teach the students:
Idea 1: Let’s hire people that have worked in the world, real world experience will be good for the students.
Mathematician avg.$52,447
Scientist avg.$86,090
English (Editor) avg.$54,077
Historian avg.$54,400
hmmm – we can’t afford these people – okay, scratch that idea
Idea 2: Let’s hire high school graduates, how hard can it really be to teach. Oh wait a minute, we’ve been saying for months how high school students fail their graduation tests even though the state passes them. Ok, forget that idea; we don’t want failures to teach our kids.
Idea 3: Let’s hire retirees – they need something to do during the day and their experiences will provide good life lessons for the students. Oh, wait a minute, they’re receiving SS payments and if we hire them they will be double dipping – we can’t have that even if it may be cheaper because we don’t have to pay all of the benefits. No double dippers!
Idea 4: OK, let’s just hire teachers but we cannot let them join a union. Great – sounds like a good plan. Oh, wait a minute, after a few years the teachers will want raises – we can’t have that. Ok, after they’ve worked a few years then we will get rid of them and hire fresh teachers at the minimum pay rate.
OK – we have a plan. But.. all of the good teachers coming out of college are interviewing at other schools and avoiding Springboro. The only teachers interviewing at Springboro are the ones nobody else wants to hire. Oh well – they’re cheap right?
Now, on to those student test scores – how do we get the students to learn more so they will be better prepared for the tests?????
You live in a world of utter illusion all teachers choose to belong to a union.
Who Knows

Piqua, OH

#23081 Jan 18, 2013
reality wrote:
<quoted text>
To summarize...
In reading, 23% of 2012's sophomore class scored "proficient" OR BELOW.
In math, 10% of 2012's sophomore class scored "proficient" OR BELOW.
Now just for a moment, try to place yourself in the sneakers of a typical hormone-enraged Boro 15-year-old.
Regardless of how their parents probably feel, a certain percentage out of this 23% and 10% are kids who couldn't care less about their futures and are living 100% in the moment.
Students like this are the way they are for multitudes of reasons, usually much of it having to do with dysfunction at home.
What if anything can a Springboro conversion school do for kids like this?
The January 10 meeting was not held to vote for a Springboro conversion school; but the vote to hire a consulting group
to study and explore, within our community as a whole,
possible answers to the question: "What, IF anything, can a Springboro conversion school do for kids like these "one of a kind" kids?

One size doesn't fit all; We've heard parents who feel strongly opposed to their child attending school without a union teacher in the classroom. Other parents want their child in a classroom in which the teacher can freely teach (without teachers union restrictions) to the individual child's need.

So we have heard some good ideas tossed around; and some parents would like to learn more; And we will never know what advantage a conversion school might be to our kids (including advantages to our "Springboro unmotivated kids" because of dysfunctions in the home), until we pursue our considerations of a conversion school.

It is the civic duty of this community to provide a quality education, while living within the means of our resources, for every child in our school district, including our gifted kids and all other kids whose personal circumstances and unmet educational needs may keep them left behind.
Someone Gets It

Miamisburg, OH

#23082 Jan 18, 2013
Re-cap wrote:
Ok now let’s live in the hypothetical world of the Topix bloggers.
All union teachers have left Springboro schools. Now who will teach the students:
Idea 1: Let’s hire people that have worked in the world, real world experience will be good for the students.
Mathematician avg.$52,447
Scientist avg.$86,090
English (Editor) avg.$54,077
Historian avg.$54,400
hmmm – we can’t afford these people – okay, scratch that idea
Idea 2: Let’s hire high school graduates, how hard can it really be to teach. Oh wait a minute, we’ve been saying for months how high school students fail their graduation tests even though the state passes them. Ok, forget that idea; we don’t want failures to teach our kids.
Idea 3: Let’s hire retirees – they need something to do during the day and their experiences will provide good life lessons for the students. Oh, wait a minute, they’re receiving SS payments and if we hire them they will be double dipping – we can’t have that even if it may be cheaper because we don’t have to pay all of the benefits. No double dippers!
Idea 4: OK, let’s just hire teachers but we cannot let them join a union. Great – sounds like a good plan. Oh, wait a minute, after a few years the teachers will want raises – we can’t have that. Ok, after they’ve worked a few years then we will get rid of them and hire fresh teachers at the minimum pay rate.
OK – we have a plan. But.. all of the good teachers coming out of college are interviewing at other schools and avoiding Springboro. The only teachers interviewing at Springboro are the ones nobody else wants to hire. Oh well – they’re cheap right?
Now, on to those student test scores – how do we get the students to learn more so they will be better prepared for the tests?????
great post!!
Who Know

Piqua, OH

#23083 Jan 18, 2013
Who Knows wrote:
<quoted text>
The January 10 meeting was not held to vote for a Springboro conversion school; but the vote to hire a consulting group
to study and explore, within our community as a whole,
possible answers to the question: "What, IF anything, can a Springboro conversion school do for kids like these "one of a kind" kids?
One size doesn't fit all; We've heard parents who feel strongly opposed to their child attending school without a union teacher in the classroom. Other parents want their child in a classroom in which the teacher can freely teach (without teachers union restrictions) to the individual child's need.
So we have heard some good ideas tossed around; and some parents would like to learn more; And we will never know what advantage a conversion school might be to our kids (including advantages to our "Springboro unmotivated kids" because of dysfunctions in the home), until we pursue our considerations of a conversion school.
It is the civic duty of this community to provide a quality education, while living within the means of our resources, for every child in our school district, including our gifted kids and all other kids whose personal circumstances and unmet educational needs may keep them left behind.
Good ideas can lead to better ideas ...

As Winston Churchill said, "No idea is so outlandish that it should not be considered with a searching, but at the same time, a steady eye".
Thoughtful

Miamisburg, OH

#23084 Jan 18, 2013
Who Knows wrote:
<quoted text>
The January 10 meeting was not held to vote for a Springboro conversion school; but the vote to hire a consulting group
to study and explore, within our community as a whole,
possible answers to the question: "What, IF anything, can a Springboro conversion school do for kids like these "one of a kind" kids?
One size doesn't fit all; We've heard parents who feel strongly opposed to their child attending school without a union teacher in the classroom. Other parents want their child in a classroom in which the teacher can freely teach (without teachers union restrictions) to the individual child's need.
So we have heard some good ideas tossed around; and some parents would like to learn more; And we will never know what advantage a conversion school might be to our kids (including advantages to our "Springboro unmotivated kids" because of dysfunctions in the home), until we pursue our considerations of a conversion school.
It is the civic duty of this community to provide a quality education, while living within the means of our resources, for every child in our school district, including our gifted kids and all other kids whose personal circumstances and unmet educational needs may keep them left behind.
Very interesting post and I don't disagree but we need to explore all options and I am not sure how all of that is funded with external consultants. I am concerned with only teaching to state tests but that seems to be the BOE focus. I believe that additional AP courses and more focus on intervention in the elementary schools for struggling kids would lift scores to a greater degree than a charter school but the frustration of many is that the BOE is exploring only one option. I think all would agree that we want the kids to get the best possible education but how we achieve that needs to be a broader piece of work than paying a charter consultant to tell us we need charter schools.
question

Germantown, OH

#23085 Jan 18, 2013
Who Knows wrote:
<quoted text>
The January 10 meeting was not held to vote for a Springboro conversion school; but the vote to hire a consulting group
to study and explore, within our community as a whole,
possible answers to the question: "What, IF anything, can a Springboro conversion school do for kids like these "one of a kind" kids?
One size doesn't fit all; We've heard parents who feel strongly opposed to their child attending school without a union teacher in the classroom. Other parents want their child in a classroom in which the teacher can freely teach (without teachers union restrictions) to the individual child's need.
So we have heard some good ideas tossed around; and some parents would like to learn more; And we will never know what advantage a conversion school might be to our kids (including advantages to our "Springboro unmotivated kids" because of dysfunctions in the home), until we pursue our considerations of a conversion school.
It is the civic duty of this community to provide a quality education, while living within the means of our resources, for every child in our school district, including our gifted kids and all other kids whose personal circumstances and unmet educational needs may keep them left behind.
Last Thursday evening where exactly do you think Todd Petrey was coming from when he made the statement... "a conversion school would involve union teachers"?
huh

Germantown, OH

#23086 Jan 18, 2013
blogg this wrote:
<quoted text>
Please remember that Lebanon has a very large % of students that do not even speak English and they scored better than Springboro. OUCH
So what do these kids speak? Lebanese?
Read the contract

Piqua, OH

#23087 Jan 18, 2013
Who Knows wrote:
<quoted text>
The January 10 meeting was not held to vote for a Springboro conversion school; but the vote to hire a consulting group
to study and explore, within our community as a whole,
possible answers to the question: "What, IF anything, can a Springboro conversion school do for kids like these "one of a kind" kids?
One size doesn't fit all; We've heard parents who feel strongly opposed to their child attending school without a union teacher in the classroom. Other parents want their child in a classroom in which the teacher can freely teach (without teachers union restrictions) to the individual child's need.
So we have heard some good ideas tossed around; and some parents would like to learn more; And we will never know what advantage a conversion school might be to our kids (including advantages to our "Springboro unmotivated kids" because of dysfunctions in the home), until we pursue our considerations of a conversion school.
It is the civic duty of this community to provide a quality education, while living within the means of our resources, for every child in our school district, including our gifted kids and all other kids whose personal circumstances and unmet educational needs may keep them left behind.
Read the Callender contract, the one section that talks about students is the smallest in the entire contract. They don't talk about how they would assess our school population or if they will come up with only one type of school or provide us with an option to choose from. The majority of the contract focuses on money and how other districts operate their conversion schools (lease of buildings, contracts for operations, shared services, collective bargaining agreements, etc.). While your looking at the contract, notice the primary project advisors, they are lawyers and a treasurer/fiscal officer. The one individual that is listed as an education consultant focuses on the legislative, regulatory, and administrative processes within the education, wind energy and publishing industries.

I'm all for looking into opportunities for our kids but is this contract, and is this group the best suited? How are they going to judge our students needs and how are they going to define any advantages to our students?

Just a Simple One

Piqua, OH

#23088 Jan 18, 2013
Read the contract wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the Callender contract, the one section that talks about students is the smallest in the entire contract. They don't talk about how they would assess our school population or if they will come up with only one type of school or provide us with an option to choose from. The majority of the contract focuses on money and how other districts operate their conversion schools (lease of buildings, contracts for operations, shared services, collective bargaining agreements, etc.). While your looking at the contract, notice the primary project advisors, they are lawyers and a treasurer/fiscal officer. The one individual that is listed as an education consultant focuses on the legislative, regulatory, and administrative processes within the education, wind energy and publishing industries.
I'm all for looking into opportunities for our kids but is this contract, and is this group the best suited? How are they going to judge our students needs and how are they going to define any advantages to our students?
Now Ima just a simple one, but alls Ima sayin, is through my status quo tunnel vision, only union teachers should be hired
to study edukaytion on my kids. They are already gifted; and we don't need no consulting workers hired in from the outside.
UR a fraid

Germantown, OH

#23089 Jan 18, 2013
Just a Simple One wrote:
<quoted text>
Now Ima just a simple one, but alls Ima sayin, is through my status quo tunnel vision, only union teachers should be hired
to study edukaytion on my kids. They are already gifted; and we don't need no consulting workers hired in from the outside.
This pathetic effort to run interference epitomizes last Thursday's cumulative SEA dog and pony show.
The Springboro teacher's union is GENUINELY AFRAID to allow free and open discussion by those who are interested in ways to improve the educations of the segments of students who tend to fall through the cracks.
certainly worth repeating

Germantown, OH

#23090 Jan 18, 2013
Read the contract wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the Callender contract, the one section that talks about students is the smallest in the entire contract. They don't talk about how they would assess our school population or if they will come up with only one type of school or provide us with an option to choose from. The majority of the contract focuses on money and how other districts operate their conversion schools (lease of buildings, contracts for operations, shared services, collective bargaining agreements, etc.). While your looking at the contract, notice the primary project advisors, they are lawyers and a treasurer/fiscal officer. The one individual that is listed as an education consultant focuses on the legislative, regulatory, and administrative processes within the education, wind energy and publishing industries.
I'm all for looking into opportunities for our kids but is this contract, and is this group the best suited? How are they going to judge our students needs and how are they going to define any advantages to our students?
Observer

Lebanon, OH

#23091 Jan 18, 2013
Re-cap wrote:
Ok now let’s live in the hypothetical world of the Topix bloggers.
All union teachers have left Springboro schools. Now who will teach the students:
Idea 1: Let’s hire people that have worked in the world, real world experience will be good for the students.
Mathematician avg.$52,447
Scientist avg.$86,090
English (Editor) avg.$54,077
Historian avg.$54,400
hmmm – we can’t afford these people – okay, scratch that idea
Idea 2: Let’s hire high school graduates, how hard can it really be to teach. Oh wait a minute, we’ve been saying for months how high school students fail their graduation tests even though the state passes them. Ok, forget that idea; we don’t want failures to teach our kids.
Idea 3: Let’s hire retirees – they need something to do during the day and their experiences will provide good life lessons for the students. Oh, wait a minute, they’re receiving SS payments and if we hire them they will be double dipping – we can’t have that even if it may be cheaper because we don’t have to pay all of the benefits. No double dippers!
Idea 4: OK, let’s just hire teachers but we cannot let them join a union. Great – sounds like a good plan. Oh, wait a minute, after a few years the teachers will want raises – we can’t have that. Ok, after they’ve worked a few years then we will get rid of them and hire fresh teachers at the minimum pay rate.
OK – we have a plan. But.. all of the good teachers coming out of college are interviewing at other schools and avoiding Springboro. The only teachers interviewing at Springboro are the ones nobody else wants to hire. Oh well – they’re cheap right?
Now, on to those student test scores – how do we get the students to learn more so they will be better prepared for the tests?????
Don't those people make that much money working 260 days per year? If you work the numbers to the same number of days a teacher would work, 185, that would be 71% to adjust for the shortened work schedule times $52,447 for a mathematician, that pay would then be $37,237. Plus they would get their summers off, Christmas Break, Spring Break, maybe we shouldn't scratch that idea yet.

2) Your logic is impeccable here, can't argue.

3) Might have a hard time finding enough retirees that would like to take on this task.

4) Thank goodness these non union teachers live in America, if the current school district is not fulfilling their needs, they are free to seek employment elsewhere.

According to Mr. Long, you remember, the guy we could not live without, he gets stacks upon stacks of applications for single openings in this district.
george o the jungle

Germantown, OH

#23092 Jan 19, 2013
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
According to Mr. Long, you remember, the guy we could not live without, he gets stacks upon stacks of applications for single openings in this district.
No doubt George would claim he still does.
Get Real

Piqua, OH

#23093 Jan 19, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
This has been ongoing for a number of years. When I spoke in February with Mr. Collins he informed me his greatest difficulty in getting kids to take the test were other kids dissuading them from doing that much work.
My guess is if we let the parents decide early enough in a child's education you would find greater and more successful participation not just in the A/P program but in the entire educational system.
Yet Lebanon parents will pay less for college than your average Springboro parent because twice as many of them have already earned college credits without spending a dime on college tuition.
Celebrating the fact that they have 40% of their kids not getting it and we only have 37% not getting it is a not much to be celebrating.
And considering most of the Proficient scores are failing grades (less than 63%) that amounts to a double whammy and even less to celebrate.
Take a look at the cut scores, this is not just a local issue, it is endemic throughout the state.
While we can't do anything about it elsewhere, we can most certainly change the tune and expectations in Springboro.
You mentioned "if we let the Parents decide early enough in a child's education ...." Not sure what you meant by that but I have a question. Wouldn't having an all day kindergarten give the children that much more to start with? There is so much talk on this site about putting the children's education first but when it comes down to it if it will cost any extra money then in reality our wallets come first.

I agree Springboro could be doing so much more for their kids. Lets offer more AP classes, lets have more intervention in the elementary schools, lets not let any kids down.

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