Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,323

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Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#22994 Jan 14, 2013
If I am not mistaken, from listening to the board, this $15,000 is being spent in incremental steps. If one of the steps does not result in favorable information, the remaining steps need not be pursued. We therefore begin with the initial investigation at a cost of $5000, if that turns out to be a mud hole, there is no further obligation to waste time nor money pursuing it further.

If it turns out more promising, we go to the next level and seek more information. As we move through this process, more information will necessarily generate more questions.

A thorough and complete investigation of the premise is what they seem to be seeking rather than a rubber stamp.

There are no simple answers or others, no doubt, would have found and implemented them by now.

Refusing to look at all possible alternatives does our children the gravest of disservices.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#22995 Jan 14, 2013
Missing the Point wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't disagree with this post at all. My only contention as noted in an earlier post is that we should not fund a $15K project with a charter school specialist to tell us if we need a charter school. It is reasonable to assume he will come to that conclusion given his background and experience. I would recommend that we explore alternatives but that this work be more than just a look at charter schools (which may be the right answer).
Other potential answers could be more aggressive intervention programs for struggling students, increasing the investment in AP courses and teachers, or a charter school for gifted children. It seems like there is still a good deal of work to be done to understand where the real issues lie before we prescribe solutions. I don't think it would take several more years, but to be honest, to staff and ramp up the charter school is a multiyear project too. The changes needed are going to be longer term no matter the chosen path. For the immediate needs of today, it seems like it would be a more tactical plan of after school tutoring to the test or weekend focus on the testing materials. And yes, realize this drives cost but very few answers are going to have a lower cost basis than we have today. I think most people would agree with Just Watching that change is needed - but unless we know root cause, it is hard to know the right answer.
Or all of the above, a combination of efforts converging on a successful education for more of our children.

There positively is no one correct answer to this dilemma, but rather a host that integrate different philosophies and methods into a common goal.

In that scenario our children win, our parents win, and ultimately our community wins.
I would love it

Dayton, OH

#22996 Jan 14, 2013
Would someone ask the consulting company how many times they have recommended to a community that they DO NOT NEED a charter school? If they can offer that and it can be verified then the argument that they are biased would be moot. Also if they say Boro needs a charter school do they have anything to gain from that? Would they be involved after that?
educator kohls

Girard, OH

#22997 Jan 14, 2013
I would love it wrote:
So if being in volved in Charter School finance is a conflict then should we allow anyone with a teaching background or involvment to be on the board? Wouldn't that be a conflict?
Are you referring to Dr Kohls? As an educator do you think she needs to step down because that's a conflict of interest. I would trust Dr Kohls more than Dave Petroni. Anytime. She's the only one on the BOE who has a background in teaching. Petroni, Rigano, Miller and Kulls do not. If the Dave Petroni fans think Dr Kohls has a conflict of interest I find that ironic. You slam a parent who chooses to put her kids in our PUBLIC SCHOOLS and then you slam her for having a teaching background. As an educator isn't she a great resource to see value in our schools? Dave Petroni's children DO NOT go to our public schools. He has ZERO background in education. Stop trying to promote Dave Petroni at the expense of educator and public school parent Dr Kelly Kohls! You should be ashamed of yourself!
say no to Charter Schools

Youngstown, OH

#22998 Jan 14, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
If I am not mistaken, from listening to the board, this $15,000 is being spent in incremental steps. If one of the steps does not result in favorable information, the remaining steps need not be pursued. We therefore begin with the initial investigation at a cost of $5000, if that turns out to be a mud hole, there is no further obligation to waste time nor money pursuing it further.
If it turns out more promising, we go to the next level and seek more information. As we move through this process, more information will necessarily generate more questions.
A thorough and complete investigation of the premise is what they seem to be seeking rather than a rubber stamp.
There are no simple answers or others, no doubt, would have found and implemented them by now.
Refusing to look at all possible alternatives does our children the gravest of disservices.
Do charter schools even make money? Aren't we making some money from Jonathan Wright? If we are going to open it up why not open it so we can decrease the class size and have everyone benefit from the taxpayers money? And another question...do we have an extra 15,000 laying around to throw at a company we know is going to come back and lay the ground work for a Charter? Wake up and smell the roses. Is this money coming from the "general fund" the board was so anxious to take from Athletics and Pay to Play to use for their own agenda? It is all starting to make sense now.....
He Must Go

Dayton, OH

#22999 Jan 14, 2013
Petroni must go (and his side kick Rigano). It is a Conflict!! He is doing this for his own financial gain. This is business to him, not education. If it was about the education, he would have looked into this much further. A study by Innovation Ohio, said charter schools are way less effective at educating students than public schools:

“only 21 percent of charter schools rate effective or better … Meanwhile … 72 percent of traditional school buildings and 88 percent of traditional school districts rate effective or better on the state report card. In fact, 46 percent of public school buildings rate Excellent (A) or Excellent with Distinction (A+), while 45 percent of charter schools rate in Academic Watch (D) or Academic Emergency (F)– success rates that are almost exactly opposite one another”

This is not about educating Springboro kids for Petroni. It is about putting money in his pocket and bringing his friends on board to run it. Watch, you will see some familiar names (Petroni backers) to run this Charter School.

Click the line below, Ohio’s for-profit charter schools make great businesses, crappy educators

http://www.plunderbund.com/2011/04/03/ohios-f...

Petroni must go!! He doesn't care about Springboro kids. He cares about his own pocket book.
would love it

Piqua, OH

#23000 Jan 14, 2013
educator kohls wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you referring to Dr Kohls? As an educator do you think she needs to step down because that's a conflict of interest. I would trust Dr Kohls more than Dave Petroni. Anytime. She's the only one on the BOE who has a background in teaching. Petroni, Rigano, Miller and Kulls do not. If the Dave Petroni fans think Dr Kohls has a conflict of interest I find that ironic. You slam a parent who chooses to put her kids in our PUBLIC SCHOOLS and then you slam her for having a teaching background. As an educator isn't she a great resource to see value in our schools? Dave Petroni's children DO NOT go to our public schools. He has ZERO background in education. Stop trying to promote Dave Petroni at the expense of educator and public school parent Dr Kelly Kohls! You should be ashamed of yourself!
I wasn't slamming her. I was just trying to show that the conflict argument was absurd. In fact I didn't even think of her when I wrote it.
Another View

Piqua, OH

#23001 Jan 14, 2013
Beginning in 2012, Our current BOE leadership has offered more transparency and participation in our board committee meetings, regular board work sessions and business meetings than at any other time in our school district. The board has provided TV broadcast of meetings and updated websites with meeting agendas and minutes posted.

But the political opposition to the children first budgeting philosophy of reform minded board members Dr. Kohls, Mr. Petroni and Mr. Rigano, have relentlessly continued their politics of personal destruction against these elected officials, using the privilege of public participation at board meetings to bully, intimidate, disrespect, making false accusations
attacking personal integrity and character which is damaging and disruptive to the school children and community as a whole.
These protests in efforts to overturn the 2011 BOE election and run out of office the two new board representatives began in January 2012, continuing through the year; and now with all the challenges that are before our school district leaders, here we are facing the same old politicis of personal destruction against Dr. Kohls, Mr. Petroni, and Jim Rigano led by fellow board member Don Miller and SEA president Scott Maney, and former union school board candidate, Lisa Babb.

It seems that Board policy regarding public participation should be reviewed and considered; that perhaps our citizens who have had such widespread participation in public meetings cannot wisely use that much freedom of expression.

Perhaps it's time at the beginning of public meetings to ask citizens to write down comments and questions to the board; and during public participation have board members respond.

Now is the time to take measures right away to protect all board members from verbal abuse
from citizens during public meetings so that January 10 disruptive behaviors by participating citizens happens again.

Perhaps our school superintendent will step up (among his many duties) and explore with his staff and District Parent Council, PTO leadership and all school community volunteers ways that the school community could model good citizenship behavior throughout our schools and community.
Another View

Piqua, OH

#23002 Jan 14, 2013
Beginning in 2012, Our current BOE leadership has offered more transparency and participation in our board committee meetings, regular board work sessions and business meetings than at any other time in our school district. The board has provided TV broadcast of meetings and updated websites with meeting agendas and minutes posted.

But the political opposition to the children first budgeting philosophy of reform minded board members Dr. Kohls, Mr. Petroni and Mr. Rigano, have relentlessly continued their politics of personal destruction against these elected officials, using the privilege of public participation at board meetings to bully, intimidate, disrespect, making false accusations
attacking personal integrity and character which is damaging and disruptive to the school children and community as a whole.
These protests in efforts to overturn the 2011 BOE election and run out of office the two new board representatives began in January 2012, continuing through the year; and now with all the challenges that are before our school district leaders, here we are facing the same old politicis of personal destruction against Dr. Kohls, Mr. Petroni, and Jim Rigano led by fellow board member Don Miller and SEA president Scott Maney, and former union school board candidate, Lisa Babb.

It seems that Board policy regarding public participation should be reviewed and considered; that perhaps our citizens who have had such widespread participation in public meetings cannot wisely use that much freedom of expression.

Perhaps it's time at the beginning of public meetings to ask citizens to write down comments and questions to the board; and during public participation have board members respond.

Now is the time to take measures right away to protect all board members from verbal abuse
from citizens during public meetings so that January 10 disruptive behaviors by participating citizens never happens again.

Perhaps our school superintendent will step up (among his many duties) and explore with his staff and District Parent Council, PTO leadership and all school community volunteers ways that the school community could model good citizenship behavior throughout our schools and community.
derek

Germantown, OH

#23003 Jan 14, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Or all of the above, a combination of efforts converging on a successful education for more of our children.
There positively is no one correct answer to this dilemma, but rather a host that integrate different philosophies and methods into a common goal.
In that scenario our children win, our parents win, and ultimately our community wins.
My name is Derek. I'm a recent Boro grad.
Each spring, students all over America graduate from public high schools barely understanding how to read. Many can't write legibly. Many don't know how to apply basic math in college or their everyday lives.
The reason I know this is because I have a job at a local college. When classes are assigned to new students after their entry exam, I sometimes see their horrified faces when they find out they're being required to take DEV classes. If their parents are with them they sometimes get really upset because they didn't expect to have to pay for DEV credit hours. Every semester I hear the same story over and over and over......"how can you get A's and B's all through high school and then be forced to take developmental classes?"
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23004 Jan 14, 2013
He Must Go wrote:
Petroni must go (and his side kick Rigano). It is a Conflict!! He is doing this for his own financial gain. This is business to him, not education. If it was about the education, he would have looked into this much further. A study by Innovation Ohio, said charter schools are way less effective at educating students than public schools:
“only 21 percent of charter schools rate effective or better … Meanwhile … 72 percent of traditional school buildings and 88 percent of traditional school districts rate effective or better on the state report card. In fact, 46 percent of public school buildings rate Excellent (A) or Excellent with Distinction (A+), while 45 percent of charter schools rate in Academic Watch (D) or Academic Emergency (F)– success rates that are almost exactly opposite one another”
This is not about educating Springboro kids for Petroni. It is about putting money in his pocket and bringing his friends on board to run it. Watch, you will see some familiar names (Petroni backers) to run this Charter School.
Click the line below, Ohio’s for-profit charter schools make great businesses, crappy educators
http://www.plunderbund.com/2011/04/03/ohios-f...
Petroni must go!! He doesn't care about Springboro kids. He cares about his own pocket book.
I looked up Innovative Ohio and found it to be a left wing Democratic talking points website filled with every slander that could be heaped upon normal Americans who fail to live by the credo that the left knows how to run your lives better than you. From gasbag fulminations on the evil John Kasich to unfettered support for any union, these are hardly the unbiased source material for anyone.

I am guessing that charter schools are not run by the union, thus Innovative Ohio's ire.

46% of the schools in Ohio are excellant or better? Who really believes the state isn't cooking the books on this one?

Why would they disparage the teachers that work at charter schools? Aren't they teachers as well?
Didn't they obtain the same credentials as our beloved Springboro teachers? Are they trying to say that all teachers are not the same? I thought all teachers were AMAZING!

If this dear reader indeed has the goods on Mr. Petroni, why does he not turn them over to the prosecutor and file charges for the sake of the children? Lead the charge, put forward your evidence and crucify Mr. Petroni for daring to cross the union.

My guess is the other sources he annotates are as equally partisan in their rancor.

Why is it that so many are wasting so much energy on the mere mention of investigating other alternatives? What could possibly cause them to want to be as closed minded to the possibilities as they seem?

In the end it is the children, the parents, and the community who pay the price for such devotion to
false idolatry.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23005 Jan 14, 2013
I would love it wrote:
Would someone ask the consulting company how many times they have recommended to a community that they DO NOT NEED a charter school? If they can offer that and it can be verified then the argument that they are biased would be moot. Also if they say Boro needs a charter school do they have anything to gain from that? Would they be involved after that?
I don't know anything for certain, but I would hazard an educated guess that the whole point of an investigation is a bit deeper than the one question above.

Only a simpleton would reduce our children's education to a hypothetical question that answers nothing.

The truth is that we can reinvent any education system we can dream up if we abide by a few simple state guidelines. We are currently employing a 1913 educational model in the 21st century. Why do we have to continue to do the same things our great grandparents did?

We do not have to do the same thing other people are doing just because our neighbors are doing so.

My mother had a pat answer whenever I used the line that "everyone else was doing it",
"Would you jump off the bridge just because everyone else was doing it?"

It was hard to argue against that logic then and it sounds even more stupid when professional educators and administrators play the part of the whiny child today.

We have a chance to explore the possibilities and reinvent education. What is the downside to exploration in this community?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23006 Jan 14, 2013
Grade 8 Cut Scores and Scoring Bands on the 2011 OAA tests

Reading
Advanced.......83%-100%
Accelerated.....71%-82%
Proficient.........48%-70%

If a student was able to answer 23 out of 48 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in Reading.

Springboro had 136 students out of 443 students in the 8th grade class fall in the Proficient or below category

Math
Advanced.......78%-100%
Accelerated....61%-77%
Proficient........35%-60%

If a student was able to answer 16 out of 46 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in Math.

Springboro had 203 students our of 443 students in the 8th grade class falling the Proficient or below category.

These children are now sophomores at the high school.

Tell these children's parents how wonderful everything is for them.

Page 12

http://www.oagc.com/files/OAGC_Grading_On_A_C ...
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23007 Jan 14, 2013
derek wrote:
<quoted text>
My name is Derek. I'm a recent Boro grad.
Each spring, students all over America graduate from public high schools barely understanding how to read. Many can't write legibly. Many don't know how to apply basic math in college or their everyday lives.
The reason I know this is because I have a job at a local college. When classes are assigned to new students after their entry exam, I sometimes see their horrified faces when they find out they're being required to take DEV classes. If their parents are with them they sometimes get really upset because they didn't expect to have to pay for DEV credit hours. Every semester I hear the same story over and over and over......"how can you get A's and B's all through high school and then be forced to take developmental classes?"
I cringe when I read Derek's account of kids' experiences when they discover their diploma is not worth what it was purported.

I also recall a certain loud and fractious assistant principal running his yap at a board meeting in January last year. This man was denying with catcalls from the audience that Ms. Kohls assertion that our recent high school graduates are having to take remedial classes once they arrive in college. Evidence would suggest the man was wrong in his stance, but for him I am sure it was not the first time.

Others are happy to point out that since we "ONLY" have 25% of our kids in remedial programs in college vs the state average of 40%, we are doing really good.

Delusional souls will grasp onto anything that appears to buttress their self image, no matter how foolish it looks to those of us grounded in reality.
Proud Parent Boro Grads

Germantown, OH

#23008 Jan 15, 2013
Facing Problem wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuse me, Boro proud little one, but Where's the Gratitude?
Hard working homeowners are investing our time and money into
providing a quality K-12 education for all Springboro school children while living within the means of our community resources. And if you can do the math, figure out how much money it cost the taxpayers of the state of Ohio to "proudly boro graduate you."
You didn't graduate yourself to earn your "Excellent With Stinkingness" education.
Your Proud Parents didn't graduate you!
Your Wonderful Teachers and Great Central Office Administrators didn't graduate you (not even with their loving hugs in the hallways and classrooms and not even inspiring words,
let's say, like ... have a nice day!
Do you not know who graduated you? School District Taxpaying homeowners and good citizens such as Mr David Petroni, Mr. Jim Rigano, and Dr. Kelly Kohls, along with about 10,000 household owners in our city and township (including Your Proud Parents).
Together, We did it all.....year after year paycheck after paycheck and on and on! Without all good citizens having the concern, dedication, and determiniation to work together doing
the right thing for our school children and community, there would be no school buildings, No union teachers in the classroom, No sports program, no central office administrators,(well you get the picture, don't you?) Why not "Picture Yourself" with a little gratitude, now that we have learned what amazing things human beings working together can accomplish (each one using our God given gifts of expertise to serve others) IF ...and Only IF, we just keep our hearts open to gratitude and thankfulness toward one another; and just simply this fighting within the school commuity adminstration and staff over WHO is the greatest and WHO desrves the most credit and applause.
Wow...you totally do not understand where I am coming from. I am the PARENT...not the "little one". Both of my children have gone K- 12 through the Springboro School system. I have volunteered in the schools, been active in the PTO,and worked on advisory councils. Throughout my entire kids education, I have been involved. It does take a parent and community. I am taxpaying citizen. I did so before my children were old enough to attend the schools, and still do after they are done. Therefore I think I have a bit of experience on the front lines as a taxpayer who does not sit on the sidelines but does get involved. I have lived here much longer than Mrs. Kohls or Mr. Petroni. I do appreciate ALL of the taxpaying citizens who supported my children before and after they graduated. They have strongly benefited from their education.
While you are wishing my children have a little gratitude, they most certainly do. We, their parents do too. Now quite trying to intimdate people.
Really

Dayton, OH

#23009 Jan 15, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
I looked up Innovative Ohio and found it to be a left wing Democratic talking points website filled with every slander that could be heaped upon normal Americans who fail to live by the credo that the left knows how to run your lives better than you. From gasbag fulminations on the evil John Kasich to unfettered support for any union, these are hardly the unbiased source material for anyone.
I am guessing that charter schools are not run by the union, thus Innovative Ohio's ire.
46% of the schools in Ohio are excellant or better? Who really believes the state isn't cooking the books on this one?
Why would they disparage the teachers that work at charter schools? Aren't they teachers as well?
Didn't they obtain the same credentials as our beloved Springboro teachers? Are they trying to say that all teachers are not the same? I thought all teachers were AMAZING!
If this dear reader indeed has the goods on Mr. Petroni, why does he not turn them over to the prosecutor and file charges for the sake of the children? Lead the charge, put forward your evidence and crucify Mr. Petroni for daring to cross the union.
My guess is the other sources he annotates are as equally partisan in their rancor.
Why is it that so many are wasting so much energy on the mere mention of investigating other alternatives? What could possibly cause them to want to be as closed minded to the possibilities as they seem?
In the end it is the children, the parents, and the community who pay the price for such devotion to
false idolatry.
Petroni has his own agenda!! Funny how Peroni lovers will try to talk through everything now bringing in politics. Really? Enough said!
Get a Life

Dayton, OH

#23010 Jan 15, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
I cringe when I read Derek's account of kids' experiences when they discover their diploma is not worth what it was purported.
I also recall a certain loud and fractious assistant principal running his yap at a board meeting in January last year. This man was denying with catcalls from the audience that Ms. Kohls assertion that our recent high school graduates are having to take remedial classes once they arrive in college. Evidence would suggest the man was wrong in his stance, but for him I am sure it was not the first time.
Others are happy to point out that since we "ONLY" have 25% of our kids in remedial programs in college vs the state average of 40%, we are doing really good.
Delusional souls will grasp onto anything that appears to buttress their self image, no matter how foolish it looks to those of us grounded in reality.
Just Watching, you are on Topix way to much, I am guessig you are a board member. Get a Life!
Interesting

Dayton, OH

#23011 Jan 15, 2013
He Must Go wrote:
Petroni must go (and his side kick Rigano). It is a Conflict!! He is doing this for his own financial gain. This is business to him, not education. If it was about the education, he would have looked into this much further. A study by Innovation Ohio, said charter schools are way less effective at educating students than public schools:
“only 21 percent of charter schools rate effective or better … Meanwhile … 72 percent of traditional school buildings and 88 percent of traditional school districts rate effective or better on the state report card. In fact, 46 percent of public school buildings rate Excellent (A) or Excellent with Distinction (A+), while 45 percent of charter schools rate in Academic Watch (D) or Academic Emergency (F)– success rates that are almost exactly opposite one another”
This is not about educating Springboro kids for Petroni. It is about putting money in his pocket and bringing his friends on board to run it. Watch, you will see some familiar names (Petroni backers) to run this Charter School.
Click the line below, Ohio’s for-profit charter schools make great businesses, crappy educators
http://www.plunderbund.com/2011/04/03/ohios-f...
Petroni must go!! He doesn't care about Springboro kids. He cares about his own pocket book.
I found this interesting so looked up several sites that had about the same remarks/results for Charter schools. I'd like to see the board show us stats that are different than the majority of what I found.

I also ran across this video, which looks like was put together by our current board memebers. I guess these 2 gentleman are some we should watch for as running a new charter school if/when that happens. They must be big supports of our current board. They seemed like puppets who had a script prepared for them.



I must say at this point I do agree that it looks like board member Petroni hasn't done his research. Very concerning as to the conflict of him pushing this charter school and his company being involved in financing charter schools. If the majority of these web sites are right, Mr. Petroni better start looking for a new job.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23012 Jan 15, 2013
Interesting wrote:
<quoted text>
I found this interesting so looked up several sites that had about the same remarks/results for Charter schools. I'd like to see the board show us stats that are different than the majority of what I found.
I also ran across this video, which looks like was put together by our current board memebers. I guess these 2 gentleman are some we should watch for as running a new charter school if/when that happens. They must be big supports of our current board. They seemed like puppets who had a script prepared for them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =jGUFR-5pvjsXX
I must say at this point I do agree that it looks like board member Petroni hasn't done his research. Very concerning as to the conflict of him pushing this charter school and his company being involved in financing charter schools. If the majority of these web sites are right, Mr. Petroni better start looking for a new job.
Or, as an alternative thesis, these men and women actually have learned how to use their critical thinking skills.

Secondly, then you should be glad Mr. Petroni is doing that research in public. Perhaps we shall all see how it turns out.

AMAZING is the word I use to describe your attempt to divert attention away from the fact that over 2000 students from 1-12 grade are not receiving the education they should.

Not a word for the students who will pay the price for your willful evasion of the topic at hand, how to reach more children and provide a better educational model.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23013 Jan 15, 2013
Springboro School Board Asks To Negotiate Labor Agreement
SPRINGBORO -- Springboro Board of Education on Thursday asked Springboro Education Association (SEA) to begin negotiations on a new labor agreement.

The SEA is the union representing teachers and other certified staff in the Springboro School District.

The current contract, entered into in 2006, will expire June 30.

"The Board believes that the terms of the 2006 labor agreement are not affordable in the current economy and must be renegotiated to achieve a balanced budget," a school board news release reads. "Completing negotiations will also relieve employee anxiety over negotiations and instill the confidence among the Springboro community as the Board seeks to renew a $9.2 million tax levy in 2013."

In the release, the Board stated its objectives in negotiations:

• A labor contract that is financially sustainable without additional taxes.
• An employee performance compensation structure.
• Quality medical care at a sustainable cost.
• Provide more time for teacher professional development without decreasing student contact time.
• Reduce the Board's long-term obligations for pay out of accrued leaves.
• Revision of the supplemental contract terms.

Maybe this is why we see such attacks on the board, if you have no defense for your position, attack the other side with nonsense.

I suppose they hope no one will notice the 2000 plus kids in our school district who are receiving a substandard education.

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