Europe's image of tolerance doesn't e...

Europe's image of tolerance doesn't extend to gay rights

There are 5 comments on the Lake Wylie Pilot story from Jul 17, 2013, titled Europe's image of tolerance doesn't extend to gay rights. In it, Lake Wylie Pilot reports that:

Vadim's brilliant white groom's tuxedo matched both his smile and the outfits of his friends as they gathered along Berlin's famed shopping street, the Ku'damm, and waited for the uberfestive annual gay pride parade to begin.

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Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

#1 Jul 17, 2013
IMHO, this is not a well-written article. It fails to distinguish between eastern and western Europe, which are still living in different cultures. It also fails to analyze why "social conservatives" in Italy and Germany wield disproportionate power while those in Britain and France do not.
JBH

Richmond, Canada

#2 Jul 17, 2013
THE PEOPLE OF THIS WORLD must have human rights freedom and free choices of fundamental liberty righteous rights to live or move to reside in places having these anywhere if they do not have, at where they are.

People can choose not to live by their old grand-parents' places, or barns, or farms or inner cities if finding too corrupted or too MANY BUSYBODIES(nosy snoopy people or big brothers snooping) troubling them.

Workers and security guards at bar places would harass and even beat non-smoker customers because they think non-smokers would spend less on alcoholic drinks. Yet other workers would even go along with bad people for being silent and corrupted, and besides, workers don't even have such rights to say something, or else would be told by leaking secrecy and be disciplined
If nothing can do and can change the corrupted establishment, people are having such bad and ugly environment, then they can move to other lands with other people having societies of no corruption but great value and liberty rights and privacy freedom, with no snooping on public at all.

Countries around the world must keep on building societies and be supported, so that humans have choices for their human rights freedom with no snooping agenda, and also have free choices of fundamental liberty righteous rights to live or move to reside, on the planet.

Many countries would not do as US does on snooping programs, while people can file charges if such snooping occurs too extremely for unjustified reasons to them. Then the human rights free choices societies will be rewarded with building excellent rules and systems for all the dignified people's needs, and many needy people who are thirsty for all these can move to, and they will be dynamic, as all these are constructive and valuable.

As countries on the planet are facing the radicalism of US doing the coalition of willing again (as if like the standpoint of Iraq war), some of those countries as Austria, France, Italy and Spain are the willing, and forge by joining US to pursue on the Snowden case like the Iraq war. Spain did wrong to conduct the detour of airplane going to Bolivia because of being one of the willing. First, there were no facts of truth of full evidences of Snowden on board airplane and that was ugliness of Spain. Then in doing the detour of airplane was another wrongdoing by messing up a lot to make bad troubles. Countries can choose not to be with the willing or joining so that the world is not being made so bad, corrupted without rules.

US has damaged relationship with many countries by chasing Snowden, by creating destructive way of International disorder. Whether US has broken International regulations, which can be sued or penalized, those people so concerned are saying of the wrongs and wrongdoing of such--making the world in chaos. US way of doing is not the new world's needs and wants. US ought not to make the world to be bad in volatility in addition to further suffer more harms of relation and economy, by doing the too extreme on Snowden story and violate International rules and systems. It ought to let its people have free choices, and not suppress human rights freedom of choices of dissidents (e.g., Snowden), ADVERSARIES, AND non-believers and let them move to places where they belong and want, just as other countries do to their dissidents by taking lots from their homeland to US.

The world must be a free world with freedom liberty choices for all, so that human rights freedom and free choices of fundamental liberty righteous privacy rights exist in many places around the world, that all people can have basic free rights values to live everywhere and anywhere.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#3 Jul 17, 2013
JohnInToronto wrote:
IMHO, this is not a well-written article. It fails to distinguish between eastern and western Europe, which are still living in different cultures. It also fails to analyze why "social conservatives" in Italy and Germany wield disproportionate power while those in Britain and France do not.
Your observation is only half-true. Or perhaps you need to expound on the difference between the discrimination in the eastern and western European countries.

The article did not omit western Europe. It specifically mentioned Italy and German. There is equal lack of progress on marriage equality in Switzerland, Austria, and Greece.

Yet gay people can expect to be treated decently and respectfully by the law in the western European countries. The eastern countries afford widely varying levels of protection under the law--from officially outlawed to officially protected. But the societies themselves are generally contemptuous, and gays cannot expect enforcement authorities to treat them well.

All in all, I would disagree with the idea that tolerance doesn't extend to gays in western Europe. It's possible to treat people with dignity--which is really all that is required for tolerance--even while failing to recognize their equality.

The thesis, as far as I know, is accurate in most eastern European countries. I, for one, will not be visiting any of those countries any time soon.

Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

#4 Jul 17, 2013
JBH wrote:
THE PEOPLE OF THIS WORLD must have human rights freedom and free choices of fundamental liberty righteous rights to live or move to reside in places having these anywhere if they do not have, at where they are.
People can choose not to live by their old grand-parents' places, or barns, or farms or inner cities if finding too corrupted or too MANY BUSYBODIES(nosy snoopy people or big brothers snooping) troubling them.
Workers and security guards at bar places would harass and even beat non-smoker customers because they think non-smokers would spend less on alcoholic drinks. Yet other workers would even go along with bad people for being silent and corrupted, and besides, workers don't even have such rights to say something, or else would be told by leaking secrecy and be disciplined
If nothing can do and can change the corrupted establishment, people are having such bad and ugly environment, then they can move to other lands with other people having societies of no corruption but great value and liberty rights and privacy freedom, with no snooping on public at all.
Countries around the world must keep on building societies and be supported, so that humans have choices for their human rights freedom with no snooping agenda, and also have free choices of fundamental liberty righteous rights to live or move to reside, on the planet.
Many countries would not do as US does on snooping programs, while people can file charges if such snooping occurs too extremely for unjustified reasons to them. Then the human rights free choices societies will be rewarded with building excellent rules and systems for all the dignified people's needs, and many needy people who are thirsty for all these can move to, and they will be dynamic, as all these are constructive and valuable.
As countries on the planet are facing the radicalism of US doing the coalition of willing again (as if like the standpoint of Iraq war), some of those countries as Austria, France, Italy and Spain are the willing, and forge by joining US to pursue on the Snowden case like the Iraq war. Spain did wrong to conduct the detour of airplane going to Bolivia because of being one of the willing. First, there were no facts of truth of full evidences of Snowden on board airplane and that was ugliness of Spain. Then in doing the detour of airplane was another wrongdoing by messing up a lot to make bad troubles. Countries can choose not to be with the willing or joining so that the world is not being made so bad, corrupted without rules.
US has damaged relationship with many countries by chasing Snowden, by creating destructive way of International disorder. Whether US has broken International regulations, which can be sued or penalized, those people so concerned are saying of the wrongs and wrongdoing of such--making the world in chaos. US way of doing is not the new world's needs and wants. US ought not to make the world to be bad in volatility in addition to further suffer more harms of relation and economy, by doing the too extreme on Snowden story and violate International rules and systems. It ought to let its people have free choices, and not suppress human rights freedom of choices of dissidents (e.g., Snowden), ADVERSARIES, AND non-believers and let them move to places where they belong and want, just as other countries do to their dissidents by taking lots from their homeland to US.
The world must be a free world with freedom liberty choices for all, so that human rights freedom and free choices of fundamental liberty righteous privacy rights exist in many places around the world, that all people can have basic free rights values to live everywhere and anywhere.
All true, but how does that specifically relate to Europe?

Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

#5 Jul 17, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Your observation is only half-true. Or perhaps you need to expound on the difference between the discrimination in the eastern and western European countries.
The article did not omit western Europe. It specifically mentioned Italy and German. There is equal lack of progress on marriage equality in Switzerland, Austria, and Greece.
Yet gay people can expect to be treated decently and respectfully by the law in the western European countries. The eastern countries afford widely varying levels of protection under the law--from officially outlawed to officially protected. But the societies themselves are generally contemptuous, and gays cannot expect enforcement authorities to treat them well.
All in all, I would disagree with the idea that tolerance doesn't extend to gays in western Europe. It's possible to treat people with dignity--which is really all that is required for tolerance--even while failing to recognize their equality.
The thesis, as far as I know, is accurate in most eastern European countries. I, for one, will not be visiting any of those countries any time soon.
I did not say it omitted it, but rather that it did not make a very clear distinction, as you just did. I would like to visit some countries in the eastern half of Europe despite their views on gays - specifically central European ones like Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovenia along with Croatia and Montenegro - but I would not want to enter any of the former Soviet Union at this point in history.

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