Church firing stirs up controversy over same-sex marriage

There are 20 comments on the Aug 15, 2014, Ledger-Enquirer.com story titled Church firing stirs up controversy over same-sex marriage. In it, Ledger-Enquirer.com reports that:

As other parishioners looked on, a cantor announced his resignation from the choir, citing other prominent "sinners" in Christian history who retained high-ranking positions and questioning why a gay couple's marriage is any different.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Ledger-Enquirer.com.

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#21 Aug 22, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
You are wrong. Just because straight people don't care who you have sex with they in no way think it's normal and fine. Want proof? Ask some straight people.
Is that the way you go about determining things? Just by asking your bigoted friends?

Fine. I asked several straight people. They tell me that homosexuality is a normal and natural variant of human sexuality, just like most of the major medical, scientific, psychological, psychiatric, and social science professional organizations, all of which are dominated by heterosexuals.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#22 Aug 23, 2014
Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Is that the way you go about determining things? Just by asking your bigoted friends?
2. Fine. I asked several straight people.
3. They tell me that homosexuality is a normal and natural variant of human sexuality, just like most of the major medical, scientific, psychological, psychiatric, and social science professional organizations, all of which are dominated by heterosexuals.
1. Everyone is a bigot.
2. You're a liar.
3. Give me the list and show me where they said that. You can't.

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#23 Aug 23, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Everyone is a bigot.
2. You're a liar.
3. Give me the list and show me where they said that. You can't.
Feel free to show any lie that I've told.

"The idea that homosexuality is a mental disorder or that the emergence of same-sex attraction and orientation among some adolescents is in any way abnormal or mentally unhealthy has no support among any mainstream health and mental health professional organizations."

American Academy of Pediatrics
American Association of School Administrators
American Counseling Association
American Federation of Teachers
American Medical Association
American Psychological Association
American School Counselor Association
American School Health Association
Interfaith Alliance Foundation
National Association of School Psychologists
National Association of Secondary School Principals
National Association of Social Workers
National Education Association
School Social Work Association of America

Official statements can be found here: http://www.clgs.org/resources/professional-or...

Endorsed here: http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/just-the...

Or put another way, can you find a mainstream medical, scientific, psychological, psychiatric, or social science professional organization that considers homosexuality abnormal or unnatural?

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#24 Aug 23, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
You are wrong. Just because straight people don't care who you have sex with they in no way think it's normal and fine. Want proof? Ask some straight people.
Gallup asked a lot of people. Most of them were straight.

In the United States, we crossed that line of acceptance 4 years ago. Most straight people accept gay relationships as morally acceptable, and that majority was reached in 2010. Now it's approaching 60% acceptance.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/135764/americans-a...
http://www.gallup.com/poll/162689/record-high...

You're in the bigoted minority. Congratulations. And you feed compelled to come onto gay and lesbian forums to announce your ignorance. How sad for you.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#25 Aug 23, 2014
Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
Feel free to show any lie that I've told.
"The idea that homosexuality is a mental disorder or that the emergence of same-sex attraction and orientation among some adolescents is in any way abnormal or mentally unhealthy has no support among any mainstream health and mental health professional organizations."
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Association of School Administrators
American Counseling Association
American Federation of Teachers
American Medical Association
American Psychological Association
American School Counselor Association
American School Health Association
Interfaith Alliance Foundation
National Association of School Psychologists
National Association of Secondary School Principals
National Association of Social Workers
National Education Association
School Social Work Association of America
Official statements can be found here: http://www.clgs.org/resources/professional-or...
Endorsed here: http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/just-the...
Or put another way, can you find a mainstream medical, scientific, psychological, psychiatric, or social science professional organization that considers homosexuality abnormal or unnatural?
Let's start with the first one on your list.
American Academy of Pediatrics
"The health care professional should also be attentive to various potential psychosocial difficulties and offer counseling or refer for counseling when necessary."
No one word stating that homosexuality is normal.
Second one: American Association of School Administrators
They are not medical professionals. Same for half of your list.
Not one of them says that homosexuality is not a disorder. Not one of the says it's normal.
Give it up, you can't find one.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#26 Aug 23, 2014
Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
Gallup asked a lot of people. Most of them were straight.
In the United States, we crossed that line of acceptance 4 years ago. Most straight people accept gay relationships as morally acceptable, and that majority was reached in 2010. Now it's approaching 60% acceptance.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/135764/americans-a...
http://www.gallup.com/poll/162689/record-high...
You're in the bigoted minority. Congratulations. And you feed compelled to come onto gay and lesbian forums to announce your ignorance. How sad for you.
You are confusing indifference with support. No one cares what you do.
If you want to marry a pony you would get the same indifference.
L Craig s Hush Puppies

Philadelphia, PA

#27 Aug 23, 2014
Why don't the sick-freeek, "religious" houses of worship of hate fire all other unrepentant "sinners"?

Because it's all about their personal animus towards lgbt people (and by extension, women,) not about anything scriptural or "religious."
L Craig s Hush Puppies

Philadelphia, PA

#28 Aug 23, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Everyone is a bigot.
2. You're a liar.
No, the bigots are the homosexually obsessed liars who are trying to take equal civil rights away and who impose entirely different standards on lgbt "sinners" and who project out all manner of things that heterosexuals are genuinely guilty of onto _only_ lgbt people.

Most str8 people in Western countries now are not anti gay bigots. You are and anti gay bigots. And a very sick and disingenuous one. No one says everyone is a bigot. You sick liar.

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#29 Aug 23, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's start with the first one on your list.
American Academy of Pediatrics
"The health care professional should also be attentive to various potential psychosocial difficulties and offer counseling or refer for counseling when necessary."
No one word stating that homosexuality is normal.
Second one: American Association of School Administrators
They are not medical professionals. Same for half of your list.
Not one of them says that homosexuality is not a disorder. Not one of the says it's normal.
Give it up, you can't find one.
Then I guess reading comprehension is another of your weaknesses, since ALL of the organizations listed (I never claimed that all of them were medical organizations) endorsed the document that stated:

"The idea that homosexuality is a mental disorder or that the emergence of same-sex attraction and orientation among some adolescents is in any way abnormal or mentally unhealthy has no support among any mainstream health and mental health professional organizations."

No need to give it up, since there are several medical professional organizations in that list.

Can you provide evidence of ANY mainstream professional organization that claims that homosexuality is abnormal, as you apparently believe?

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#30 Aug 23, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
You are confusing indifference with support. No one cares what you do.
If you want to marry a pony you would get the same indifference.
I'm "confusing" things? Like a lot of anti-gay people, you just make up your own facts to suit your ignorance. Talk about confused. Feel free to show where the polls say "indifference."

The question was about the moral acceptance of gay relationships, and gay relationships are seen as morally acceptable by nearly 60% of the most recent respondents. Not "morally indifferent" or "no opinion". Morally acceptable.

You really like hanging on to a losing argument, dontcha?

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#31 Aug 23, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's start with the first one on your list.
American Academy of Pediatrics
"The health care professional should also be attentive to various potential psychosocial difficulties and offer counseling or refer for counseling when necessary."
No one word stating that homosexuality is normal.
Second one: American Association of School Administrators
They are not medical professionals. Same for half of your list.
Not one of them says that homosexuality is not a disorder. Not one of the says it's normal.
Give it up, you can't find one.
How about the amicus briefs filed in US v Windsor by

BRIEF OF THE AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL
ASSOCIATION, THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF
PEDIATRICS, THE AMERICAN MEDICAL
ASSOCIATION, THE AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC
ASSOCIATION, THE AMERICAN PSYCHOANALYTIC
ASSOCIATION, THE CALIFORNIA MEDICAL
ASSOCIATION, THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF
SOCIAL WORKERS AND ITS NEW YORK CITY AND
STATE CHAPTERS, AND THE NEW YORK STATE
PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION AS AMICI CURIAE
ON THE MERITS IN SUPPORT OF AFFIRMANCE

Especially Part II:'Homosexuality Is a Normal Expression of Human Sexuality, Is Generally Not Chosen, and Is Highly Resistant to Change.'

NORMAL NORMAL. NORMAL.

http://www.aap.org/en-us/advocacy-and-policy/...
L Craig s Hush Puppies

Philadelphia, PA

#32 Aug 23, 2014
Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you provide evidence of ANY mainstream professional organization that claims that homosexuality is abnormal, as you apparently believe?
Another salient point is that none of those mainstream medical or professional groups explicitly state that _heterosexuality_ is normal. That's the standard the very sick homophobe is demanding, after all.

Of course we know all these groups expressly do not consider variations in sexual orientation to be a sickness. And they indicate so in many contexts.
L Craig s Hush Puppies

Philadelphia, PA

#33 Aug 23, 2014
Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
You really like hanging on to a losing argument, dontcha?
The creature steadfastly maintains that state AGs are obligated to continue enforcing (certain) laws still on the books even when those laws have been ruled unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court.

If the creature's simply another troll the thing's stupid. If the creature's not just a troll and it really believes what it posts for hours each day then it's way, way beyond mere stupidity.

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#34 Aug 23, 2014
L Craig s Hush Puppies wrote:
<quoted text>
Another salient point is that none of those mainstream medical or professional groups explicitly state that _heterosexuality_ is normal. That's the standard the very sick homophobe is demanding, after all.
Of course we know all these groups expressly do not consider variations in sexual orientation to be a sickness. And they indicate so in many contexts.
And as I've shown, all of those groups have expressly stated that homosexuality is normal in their brief to the Supreme Court.

I would imagine that all of them would state the same for heterosexuality, if they needed to. It's not as if they wouldn't; it's just that no one has ever asked.

Most dedicated anti-gay people like "Wondering" will continue to believe nonsense until their death. We know from brain studies that reasoning is suffused with emotion; indeed, emotion precedes and often overwhelms reason. It's a "basic human survival skill," according to political scientist Arthur Lupia of the University of Michigan. We push threatening information away; we pull friendly information close. We apply fight-or-flight reflexes not only to predators, but to data itself."
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/d...

Wondering isn't really "wondering". He's friggin scared. It's irrational, but it's emotion, not reason.
L Craig s Hush Puppies

Philadelphia, PA

#35 Aug 23, 2014
Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
Wondering isn't really "wondering". He's friggin scared. It's irrational, but it's emotion, not reason.
You've concluded he's sincere in the least in his posts?

Many of them are too loopy, not just the usual fundie/religious stupid beyond words, but too loopy to be taken seriously. And unlike some of the reparative therapy regulars around here, Wondering can compose a minimally correct sentence, so he's not as stupid as the others.

He has openly said when questioned about his exact "religious" views that he's here doing "research." He obviously lies about everything, but if by "research" you think, "finding out what it takes to get a rise out of people," then I think his statement is as close to uttering something true that he has ever gotten.

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#36 Aug 23, 2014
L Craig s Hush Puppies wrote:
<quoted text>
You've concluded he's sincere in the least in his posts?
Many of them are too loopy, not just the usual fundie/religious stupid beyond words, but too loopy to be taken seriously. And unlike some of the reparative therapy regulars around here, Wondering can compose a minimally correct sentence, so he's not as stupid as the others.
He has openly said when questioned about his exact "religious" views that he's here doing "research." He obviously lies about everything, but if by "research" you think, "finding out what it takes to get a rise out of people," then I think his statement is as close to uttering something true that he has ever gotten.
Sincere to the extent that I believe that he really doesn't like gay people, gay relationships, the general acceptance of anything gay, much less civil marriage for same-sex couples. True, he can push a noun up against a verb and compose his thoughts in a fairly ordered fashion, indicating that he has some intelligence.

But being intelligent and being reasonable are two vastly different things. Antonin Scalia is a great example of an extremely intelligent but -- on specific issues -- completely irrational human being. They are both emotionally attached to completely unreasonable beliefs that have been inculcated in them since an early age. No rational, reasoning human being arrives at such ideas through careful "research" that weighs facts and dismisses myth, superstition, and unsupportable beliefs.
L Craig s Hush Puppies

Philadelphia, PA

#37 Aug 23, 2014
Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
Sincere to the extent that I believe that he really doesn't like gay people
I will once again argue the entirely needless, contrary position here and say that he in fact actually pines for gay people. Or at least for gay men. For hours and hours each day.

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#38 Aug 23, 2014
L Craig s Hush Puppies wrote:
<quoted text>
I will once again argue the entirely needless, contrary position here and say that he in fact actually pines for gay people. Or at least for gay men. For hours and hours each day.
Well, you could be correct. I am aware of the study that concludes that many of the most homophobic men can be those who harbor deeply suppressed same-sex desires. While on an intellectual level I can understand that mentality, I'll admit that I have no understanding of the psychology of the anti-gay heterosexual man who spends hour upon hour on gay forums, aside from a genuinely deep-seated fear over the diminishing hold that his strongly-held belief system has over others.

Or perhaps he's just a dick.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#39 Aug 24, 2014
Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
1. "The idea that homosexuality is a mental disorder or that the emergence of same-sex attraction and orientation among some adolescents is in any way abnormal or mentally unhealthy has no support among any mainstream health and mental health professional organizations."
2. No need to give it up, since there are several medical professional organizations in that list.
3. Can you provide evidence of ANY mainstream professional organization that claims that homosexuality is abnormal, as you apparently believe?
1. I think it's your reading comprehension that's suffering. I said the APA doesn't count.
2. None of them say that homosexuality isn't a disorder.
3. They remain neutral. That is the best policy.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#40 Aug 24, 2014
Jerald wrote:
Wondering isn't really "wondering". He's friggin scared. It's irrational, but it's emotion, not reason.
Scared of what? My position is that you live your life the best way you can, be as happy as you can. I'll do the same. You mind your business and I'll mind mine. When gay activists attempt to brainwash our kids in public elementary schools, that's a problem.

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