Threatened With Extinction, Conservat...

Threatened With Extinction, Conservative Opinions on Marriage Begin to Evolve

There are 56 comments on the EDGE story from Dec 28, 2013, titled Threatened With Extinction, Conservative Opinions on Marriage Begin to Evolve. In it, EDGE reports that:

There's no question that 2013 was a landmark year for LGBT rights in America. Along with the two Supreme Court decisions that legalized marriage on the federal level, there was a development that, in the long view of history, may prove to have been just as historic: capitulation by conservative forces that have fought just as long and at least as ... (more)

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“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#42 Dec 29, 2013
Chance wrote:
<quoted text>
Straight wedding vows almost always include "forsaking all others," and I believe most straights intend to be monogamous. Failure to do so is just that - failure. It is not an intentional lifestyle plan like it is with gays, To call an intentionally open same-sex couple "married" is a huge departure from the meaning of the word. It makes such a "marriage" a sham, which is why I wouldn't see such a wedding as a really important event. If gays want traditional marriage, then they should be willing to at least try to maintain the tradition. It doesn't seem ti be happening,
Since you acknowledged in your earlier post -- and it is stated in the article you linked -- that not all same-sex couples intentionally set out to create "open marriages" (just as not all opposite-sex couples do so), it appears that you apply one standard to all same-sex couples and not to all opposite-sex couples.

I wonder why that is?

You clearly wouldn't deny civil marriage to opposite-sex couples even though clearly some of them must intentionally enter into open marriages. It's not like gay people invented the concept. I doubt, too, that lesbian couples are as open in their marriages as you might have been led to believe. And while perhaps gay men do opt more frequently for openness than other populations, it cannot be stated as a norm -- there are plenty of monogamous gay men. I happen to be one of them.

So you are opposed to open marriage. Fine. Then advocate for that.

But don't pretend that denying same-sex couples the right to obtain a civil marriage will create more monogamous couples.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#43 Dec 30, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
There has been some evolution on the right, but for the most part what we have been seeing are the smarter rats getting off the sinking ship first.
YUP

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#44 Dec 30, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Young people today, even among those who are brought up to be socially conservative, are far more likely to have grown up with someone who who has come out, or to know someone who is openly gay than those as recent as a decade ago. The people they know don't usually fit any of the right's stereotypes. someone having a firm grasp of the reality of the world around them can even temper religious indoctrination.They are bright enough to realize that this really is a civil rights issue. You're losing the battle for the hearts, minds and votes of young folk, even among otherwise conservative young folk. You only have yourselves to blame.
YUP

Big Red Heart

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#45 Dec 30, 2013
TomInElPaso wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that the best you can come up with? No wonder you're losing the cultural war.
The battle cry of 'chance & co.' for years was always "wait and see what terrible stuff happens next".

Then nothing terrible happened.

Fortunately we have 'chance & co.' to insure that such outdated thinking never goes completely extinct.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#46 Dec 30, 2013
Chance wrote:
<quoted text>
Lots of young people become convinced that their elders arre wrong and believe that lifestyles they were warned against are not destructive. They look at their 20-something friends and think all is well. As they and their friend approach 30 they start to see the fall-out from bad choices and often times realize that their elders were right.
‘True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." ~ Akhenaton

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#47 Dec 30, 2013
Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, the problem with your analysis is that the evidence doesn't support it, at least with regard to the public's acceptance of homosexuality in general, or of civil marriage for same-sex couples in particular.
In all age groups, and across just about all demographics, the evidence is clear that people are starting to see that being gay is not "the fall-out from bad choices", and they are coming to realize that their elders were very wrong. The biggest reason that they are coming to this realization is that a larger proportion of the population acknowledges knowing gay people, and that their personal knowledge of gay people conflicts with the false perceptions of homosexuality and gay people handed down to them from previous generations.
There will always be stubbornly and willfully ignorant people like you. Fortunately, your numbers and opinions will just be further marginalized and insignificant as time goes by.
"Reason is poor propaganda when opposed by the yammering, unceasing lies of shrewd and evil and self-serving men." - R.A.H. "Assignment in Eternity" (1953)

"The capacity of the human mind for swallowing nonsense and spewing it forth in violent and repressive action has never yet been plumbed." - R.A.H. "Revolt in 2100" (1953), postscript

"Never appeal to a man's "better nature." He may not have one. Invoking his self-interest gives you more leverage." - R.A.H. "Time Enough For Love" (1973)

Since: Feb 10

Woodstock, Illinois

#48 Dec 30, 2013
Chance wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
In that case, you should not refer to them as friends. They might just be people you know of, but clearly, you do not have any true friends that are gay.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#49 Dec 30, 2013
Christaliban wrote:
<quoted text>
The sickest bigots are dying out from the population. We don't need you to adapt.
Sorry to hear that you're ill. I kind of knew that anyway.

Since: Oct 10

San Francisco

#50 Dec 30, 2013
Ron431 wrote:
<quoted text>
In that case, you should not refer to them as friends. They might just be people you know of, but clearly, you do not have any true friends that are gay.
Chance/Pam/Snickers has no friends of any kind who are gay; it's just another one of her lies. Given her revolting personality, she probably has no straight friends either. A year or two ago when I asked her if she knew any gay people, the only person she could come up with was a cashier or waiter she'd see from time to time.

"Thou shalt not lie" is clearly one of the commandments this cafeteria christian chooses to ignore. Of course it could also be she's still wondering who Thou is.

“Marriage Equality”

Since: Dec 07

Lakeland, MI

#51 Dec 30, 2013
Chance wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
If you won't support them in things that are important to them that have no negative impart on you, then you're not their friend. You may claim you are, but actions speak louder than words.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#52 Dec 30, 2013
eJohn wrote:
<quoted text>
If you won't support them in things that are important to them that have no negative impart on you, then you're not their friend. You may claim you are, but actions speak louder than words.
That's the you are with us or against us mentality. Here in the real world it's not that simple.
If you are going to create a 'gay world' at least create one that makes you happy.
Fundieraising Fatwass

Philadelphia, PA

#53 Dec 30, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>The battle cry of 'chance & co.' for years was always "wait and see what terrible stuff happens next".
Then nothing terrible happened.
Fortunately we have 'chance & co.' to insure that such outdated thinking never goes completely extinct.
Chance's imaginary "homosexual" friend is Sarah Palin's apparently imaginary "homosexual" friend, I'll be willing to bet.

You can count them on one imaginary hand.
Fundieraising Fatwass

Philadelphia, PA

#54 Dec 30, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry to hear that you're ill. I kind of knew that anyway.
Hey mongoloid, the polling is quite clear:

GLBT people aren't disappearing. Homophobes are...particularly the most mentally ill ones whose anti gay male rhetoric is over the top crazy.

It just doesn't see anymore, outside of fourteen years olds who troll and anti rational, sexually frightened, fundie, adult throwbacks. That's it.

“Marriage Equality”

Since: Dec 07

Lakeland, MI

#55 Dec 30, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
That's the you are with us or against us mentality....
Not even a little bit. Would YOU consider someone a friend that refused to support you in something that was important to them and carried no impact on that other person?

A true friend supports his or her friends through thick and thin. Supporting someone's choice of marriage partner isn't even thick or thin. It's simply supporting the choice that they made. That's what friends do for each other.

If you can't support your friends, they're not your friends.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#56 Dec 30, 2013
Wondering wrote:
That's the you are with us or against us mentality.
Actually, the "with us or against us" mentality comes from people who spread propaganda about a "great gay intrusion".

Since: Feb 10

Woodstock, Illinois

#57 Dec 30, 2013
GoldenGator wrote:
<quoted text>
Chance/Pam/Snickers has no friends of any kind who are gay; it's just another one of her lies. Given her revolting personality, she probably has no straight friends either. A year or two ago when I asked her if she knew any gay people, the only person she could come up with was a cashier or waiter she'd see from time to time.
"Thou shalt not lie" is clearly one of the commandments this cafeteria christian chooses to ignore. Of course it could also be she's still wondering who Thou is.
I know, but sometimes it's fun to ask a question that you already know the answer to just to see what response you might get. Much like watching a car wreck.

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