Gay couples hope legislation makes Hawaii first Western state w...

Hawaii , the state that adopted the nation's first "defense of marriage" constitutional amendment a decade ago, has now become the latest battleground in the fight for same-sex civil unions. Full Story

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16747 Oct 31, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>I never claimed that the marriage of a childless couple was ever negated by any country.
It is you that is using the failure to reproduce as the reason to negate valid marriages.
Got some gay twirl back step going honey...

You foolishly and futilely attempted to claim that married couples who are childless because of CHOICE, or a medical condition must have their marriages invalidated.

I simply pointed out that those exceptions have NEVER been a problem, and always were accepted. I challenged you to name just one country where marriages were rescinded because the couple was childless.

Which brings us back to this fundamental reality;

At it's most basic essence, marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior.

Ss couples are a 100% defective failure of mating behavior making ss marriage a clear oxymoron.

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16748 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
That does often happen. It didn't happen to me.
Also, you avoided my question, which in such a context is rather valid. Do you think intersexed kids designated a gender that is not their own should suffer the consequences of not being allowed to marry the person he or she loves?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16749 Oct 31, 2013
Josh in New Orleans wrote:
<quoted text>
Well you are lucky on two fronts- one, you were not assigned a gender that was not your own, and what gender you have is in congruence with the gender you are attracted to. Not so with me. I am outwardly 100% male, but inside I have a region of my brain that is of the opposite gender and that makes me attracted to men. This is science, which you said you don't ignore. Well? Do you think it is fair and just still that people like us who are denied rights for who we are? In some way intersexed? Do you think it is fair that those kids without consent were assigned a body gende incomparable with that of their brain and denied the right to marry their beloved as a result of some doctor's decision? In my case, it was pure nature. You are lucky, but just being lucky shouldn't translate into having a privilege others do not have. You're also lucky that you can procreate. It is more likely with intersexed people that thy cannot.
Are you intersexed or homosexual?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16750 Oct 31, 2013
Josh in New Orleans wrote:
<quoted text>
Also, you avoided my question, which in such a context is rather valid. Do you think intersexed kids designated a gender that is not their own should suffer the consequences of not being allowed to marry the person he or she loves?
It is a difficult question that I have not reached a conclusion on, except for the core principle that marriage is between a man and a woman.

That's because it is possible now to surgically identify with your inner gender. However, my understanding is, that many of those who take that option are still not happy with the results.

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16751 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, I took a step back.
There is still a vast difference between a rare medical condition and a sexual orientation that is 100% sterile within it's nature.
Moreover, every culture has childless married couples without issue.
This is the fundamental difference, at it's most basic essence, marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior. Ss couples are a defective failure of mating behavior.
Okay then, let's take another step back. First, every culture has homosexual people without incidence with exception to violation of cultural norms. In fact, there are numerous examples of cultures that do not reject homosexual people, but rather, they embrace us- as is the case with two-spirits among Native Americans. Some cultures consider that stepping out of the procreative process effectively means that we are living our last life before the end of reincarnation. In any case, if we are a 100% evolutionary failure, then why does nature not only produce us, but produces homosexuality in virtually every single species on Earth ranging from fruit flies to whales? The answer? I think it's because of the procreative F-ups of a species. We're a form of natural population control, and in a social species like ours, offspring are not the only way our genes get passed on. When heterosexual are popping out so many children left and right that nobody can take care of them, homosexual individuals in the group are in a fact providing for their fellow tribe members, while not contributing to the problem. That said, what genetic and hereditary studies of gay people there are do suggest the tendency comes out of a maternal lineage, and therefore, our genes are not passed on directly, but through the survival of our siblings. Need another non-human example? Gay-male penguins adopt abandoned eggs. We are here to take care of the F-ups of our heterosexual counterparts!!!
KiMare wrote:
But that is not the only distinction. Here are just a few of many significant ones;
Marriage is a miraculous union of two genders,
a union so profound,
it is described as the union of Mars and Venus.
It reunites humanity to the roots of life,
while at the very same time
hosting the best and natural
birth place of future human life.
Oh cut the shit. Marriage is no guarantee of producing a healthy happy family at all. I ran into a married couple on the street a couple of days ago. They were begging for change, and thank God they have no kids, but countless children are born into families all the time who are either unwilling or incapable of taking care of them. Take off all the sentimental BS, and you'll see an ugly truth. Marriage is no guarantee that children will grow up in "the best and natural
birth place of future human life". Utter poppycock!!!
KiMare wrote:
It is the blend of masculinity and femininity.
So are we. Both sides of gender are represented often half and half and like heterosexuals, we are whole when united with our spouse.
KiMare wrote:
The wisdom of logic and intuition united.
Strength and delicacy perfectly balanced.
Protection and nurture combined as one.
A complimentary merging that multiplies the unbiased blend of humanity's genders.
Again, we often represent the same... I.e. fems + masculine, blended + blended
KiMare wrote:
A ss couple cannot equate to a single one of these distinctions.
Well guess what, we do relate, but we also equate. It's only a matter of time before the last vestiges of discrimination against us disappear into the history books. It's already happening.

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16752 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you intersexed or homosexual?
Both. Homosexual people, as has been recently discovered and conclusively proven, we have structural differences in our brains and in the activity centers that are identical to that of the opposite gender. Would you like a link to some of the research? How about a picture of what our brains look like under an FMRI in comparison to the opposite sex?

DNF

“Judge more and you love less”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH-Baltimore MD-S.Fla

#16753 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Got some gay twirl back step going honey...
You foolishly and futilely attempted to claim that married couples who are childless because of CHOICE, or a medical condition must have their marriages invalidated.
show where I made such claim. I never did. Lying again Rev. Greg.
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>I simply pointed out that those exceptions have NEVER been a problem, and always were accepted. I challenged you to name just one country where marriages were rescinded because the couple was childless.
Why should I try to claim something that is untrue. I never claimed that such marriages were invalidated.

This all began when I asked you about laws that banned the disabled from marriage unless they were sterilized. You said that never happened. I gave you links to that proved that in SOME STATES sterilization was REQUIRED before certain people with disabilities before they could legally marry.

I did so to show that your premise that only marriages that produce offspring are valid.

It is YOU who are twisting things and making false statements, not me.
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>Which brings us back to this fundamental reality;
At it's most basic essence, marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior.
Ss couples are a 100% defective failure of mating behavior making ss marriage a clear oxymoron.
Once again you are insisting that the ability to reproduce is fundamental in marriage laws. You say gays and lesbians are 100% incapable of producing children, despite the fact that many lesbians and gay men have biological children.

I challenge you to point to any STATE LAW that EVER required fertility in order for the couple to have a valid marriage.

I have heard you are a minister. I challenge you on that basis to explain yourself and your actions in relation to Matt 25:31-46.

DNF

“Judge more and you love less”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH-Baltimore MD-S.Fla

#16754 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you intersexed or homosexual?
They are not mutually exclusive.

Inter-sexed people can be straight or gay.

Now about your masculine/feminine premise. Many cultures held that people with same sex attraction had both a masculine and a feminine spirit.

DNF

“Judge more and you love less”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH-Baltimore MD-S.Fla

#16755 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a difficult question that I have not reached a conclusion on, except for the core principle that marriage is between a man and a woman.
That's because it is possible now to surgically identify with your inner gender. However, my understanding is, that many of those who take that option are still not happy with the results.
Question. If being gay or lesbian is a genetic disorder who's responsible? The person or their parents?

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16756 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a difficult question that I have not reached a conclusion on, except for the core principle that marriage is between a man and a woman.
That's because it is possible now to surgically identify with your inner gender. However, my understanding is, that many of those who take that option are still not happy with the results.
Uh-huh. As you should very well know, even after sexual re-assignment surgery, states still deny intersexed or transgendered people the right to marry on the sole basis of their assigned gender at birth.

And I'll have you know, I have absolutely zero interest in cutting off my balls just to appease the irrational mentality that all romantic love is about man + woman. It is not. My genitals are fully formed and functional. What next, should I cut out the part of my brain that makes me gay? No, I am who I am as nature/God created me. To have married your wife, would you have not balked at the idea of removing your pussy? No sharp objects allowed!!!

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16757 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a difficult question that I have not reached a conclusion on, except for the core principle that marriage is between a man and a woman.
That's because it is possible now to surgically identify with your inner gender. However, my understanding is, that many of those who take that option are still not happy with the results.
I will also add that unlike yourself, my inner gender is both genders- emotions like a female, an analytical mind like an atypical male, high verbal capacity and a tendency to multitask, high spacial intelligence, and I swear to you that at least mentally I have PMS once a month. I also played with both boy and girl toys growing up. I wear makeup, but dress like a straight dude. I feel uncomfortable in women's clothing, but admire it. I love flowery decorations, and have an almost maternal sense with children. My brain is a chimera of typical sex differences. I'm also ambidextrous and was bisexual early in puberty.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16758 Oct 31, 2013
Josh in New Orleans wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay then, let's take another step back. First, every culture has homosexual people without incidence with exception to violation of cultural norms. In fact, there are numerous examples of cultures that do not reject homosexual people, but rather, they embrace us- as is the case with two-spirits among Native Americans. Some cultures consider that stepping out of the procreative process effectively means that we are living our last life before the end of reincarnation. In any case, if we are a 100% evolutionary failure, then why does nature not only produce us, but produces homosexuality in virtually every single species on Earth ranging from fruit flies to whales? The answer? I think it's because of the procreative F-ups of a species. We're a form of natural population control, and in a social species like ours, offspring are not the only way our genes get passed on. When heterosexual are popping out so many children left and right that nobody can take care of them, homosexual individuals in the group are in a fact providing for their fellow tribe members, while not contributing to the problem. That said, what genetic and hereditary studies of gay people there are do suggest the tendency comes out of a maternal lineage, and therefore, our genes are not passed on directly, but through the survival of our siblings. Need another non-human example? Gay-male penguins adopt abandoned eggs. We are here to take care of the F-ups of our heterosexual counterparts!!!
<quoted text>
Oh cut the shit. Marriage is no guarantee of producing a healthy happy family at all. I ran into a married couple on the street a couple of days ago. They were begging for change, and thank God they have no kids, but countless children are born into families all the time who are either unwilling or incapable of taking care of them. Take off all the sentimental BS, and you'll see an ugly truth. Marriage is no guarantee that children will grow up in "the best and natural
birth place of future human life". Utter poppycock!!!
<quoted text>
So are we. Both sides of gender are represented often half and half and like heterosexuals, we are whole when united with our spouse.
<quoted text>
Again, we often represent the same... I.e. fems + masculine, blended + blended
<quoted text>
Well guess what, we do relate, but we also equate. It's only a matter of time before the last vestiges of discrimination against us disappear into the history books. It's already happening.
Josh,

First, I separate treating GLBT with respect, and calling ss couples married. GLBT's have represented about 4% of the population for known history. Ss couples being called marriage has NEVER been accepted in a single culture from start to finish anywhere ever. Not a single one.

I've read the actual historical accounts of the first encounters with berdaches ('two spirited' was a term created in the 1980's). It is not pretty. In fact it is horrendous for the most part. You might want to check actual historical accounts instead of gay twirl sites.

It appears likely that human homosexuality is the result of epi-genetic marker mistakes. It most certainly is not a means of population control. As to Same Sex Sexual Behavior in animals, there are a variety of reasons. For instance, female Ocra's stimulate each other in preparation for Slam Bam Thank You Mame male encounters. Often male on male is a simply a sign of domination.

You are losing it. Who said marriage is a guarantee? It is however, clearly, the most likely setting for the best child well being outcome. The rest of your response is a senseless rant. Those are clear distinctions that ss couples cannot equate to.

Perhaps you want to check my information and get back?

DNF

“Judge more and you love less”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH-Baltimore MD-S.Fla

#16759 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Josh,
First, I separate treating GLBT with respect, and calling ss couples married. GLBT's have represented about 4% of the population for known history. Ss couples being called marriage has NEVER been accepted in a single culture from start to finish anywhere ever. Not a single one.
I've read the actual historical accounts of the first encounters with berdaches ('two spirited' was a term created in the 1980's). It is not pretty. In fact it is horrendous for the most part. You might want to check actual historical accounts instead of gay twirl sites.
It appears likely that human homosexuality is the result of epi-genetic marker mistakes. It most certainly is not a means of population control. As to Same Sex Sexual Behavior in animals, there are a variety of reasons. For instance, female Ocra's stimulate each other in preparation for Slam Bam Thank You Mame male encounters. Often male on male is a simply a sign of domination.
You are losing it. Who said marriage is a guarantee? It is however, clearly, the most likely setting for the best child well being outcome. The rest of your response is a senseless rant. Those are clear distinctions that ss couples cannot equate to.
Perhaps you want to check my information and get back?
I have yet to see you be respectful to any GLBT person.

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16760 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Josh,
First, I separate treating GLBT with respect, and calling ss couples married. GLBT's have represented about 4% of the population for known history. Ss couples being called marriage has NEVER been accepted in a single culture from start to finish anywhere ever. Not a single one.
I've read the actual historical accounts of the first encounters with berdaches ('two spirited' was a term created in the 1980's). It is not pretty. In fact it is horrendous for the most part. You might want to check actual historical accounts instead of gay twirl sites.
It appears likely that human homosexuality is the result of epi-genetic marker mistakes. It most certainly is not a means of population control. As to Same Sex Sexual Behavior in animals, there are a variety of reasons. For instance, female Ocra's stimulate each other in preparation for Slam Bam Thank You Mame male encounters. Often male on male is a simply a sign of domination.
You are losing it. Who said marriage is a guarantee? It is however, clearly, the most likely setting for the best child well being outcome. The rest of your response is a senseless rant. Those are clear distinctions that ss couples cannot equate to.
Perhaps you want to check my information and get back?
Actually, it's likely not an epigenetic "mistake". It's been known as scientific fact through various studies dating back even to the 1970's that the likelihood of a mother having a child who grows up being gay increases with each additional pregnancy. A leading hypothesis is that homosexuality is nature's answer to population control. Overpopulation, at least in more primitive communities, often results in famine. Therefore, having a few individuals in a group who contribute to the needs of the community and do not themselves contribute to the growing population serves a beneficial evolutionary role. Their siblings are more likely to survive and therefore pass on their genes.

Out of respect, please mind you that I am very well read on this subject and my assertions about the science are not based on some "gay twirl" website as you contend. If I could write a paper on this subject and receive 100% at a prestigious university as I have already, then I have certainly followed the trail of known science with accuracy.

Besides that, it makes sense. From a purely evolutionary perspective, individuals who do not procreate do not pass on their genes and therefore evolution eventually eliminates those members of a species, but one has to ask, "Why not homosexuality?" There is no one answer for all species (I.e. female whales "juicing up" for sex with males), but there are a variety a reasons, and the reasons may differ from species to species. In our case I suspect it is because we serve an important social role. Don't believe me? That's perfectly fine, but you cannot deny in terms of evolution that there is simply no reason. Otherwise we would not exist- evolutionary dead end. Kaput.

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16761 Oct 31, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>I have yet to see you be respectful to any GLBT person.
On that note, treating us differently in term of rights on account of our differences IS disrespect.

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16762 Oct 31, 2013
Sorry, I misspoke. I meant to say, "in terms of evolution, one cannot simply assert that there is no reason.". We're not a mutation, but a regular occurrence, even if we're just 4% the population (arguably).

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16764 Nov 1, 2013
Josh in New Orleans wrote:
<quoted text>
I will also add that unlike yourself, my inner gender is both genders- emotions like a female, an analytical mind like an atypical male, high verbal capacity and a tendency to multitask, high spacial intelligence, and I swear to you that at least mentally I have PMS once a month. I also played with both boy and girl toys growing up. I wear makeup, but dress like a straight dude. I feel uncomfortable in women's clothing, but admire it. I love flowery decorations, and have an almost maternal sense with children. My brain is a chimera of typical sex differences. I'm also ambidextrous and was bisexual early in puberty.
Masculinity and femininity is a spectrum of at least 200 identifying characteristics. We all fall at various places along that. Orientation is somewhat different from that. Even withing GLBT, there is that variation.

I use this question to expose that spectrum;

Why does a butch lesbian dress and act like a man to attract another lesbian? A female who is almost a man, and another female who almost wants a man.

All of this to say that GLBT's fall withing a 4% crossover point of orientation and sexuality. A point of sexual confusion. A sexual defect. Not a choice, and certainly a difficult place to be.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16765 Nov 1, 2013
Josh in New Orleans wrote:
<quoted text>
Both. Homosexual people, as has been recently discovered and conclusively proven, we have structural differences in our brains and in the activity centers that are identical to that of the opposite gender. Would you like a link to some of the research? How about a picture of what our brains look like under an FMRI in comparison to the opposite sex?
No need, I understand what you are saying.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16766 Nov 1, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>Question. If being gay or lesbian is a genetic disorder who's responsible? The person or their parents?
How can any person be responsible for a genetic condition OR a birth defect?

DNF

“Judge more and you love less”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH-Baltimore MD-S.Fla

#16767 Nov 1, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Masculinity and femininity is a spectrum of at least 200 identifying characteristics. We all fall at various places along that. Orientation is somewhat different from that. Even withing GLBT, there is that variation.
I use this question to expose that spectrum;
Why does a butch lesbian dress and act like a man to attract another lesbian? A female who is almost a man, and another female who almost wants a man.
All of this to say that GLBT's fall withing a 4% crossover point of orientation and sexuality. A point of sexual confusion. A sexual defect. Not a choice, and certainly a difficult place to be.
You speak of gays and lesbians having a sexual defect and use that to justify banning them from marriage.

Impotence is a sexual defect, yet you are O.K. with the infertile being allowed to marry.

I point this out to demonstrate the spectrum of hypocrisy you use in justifying your bigotry against SSM.

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