Homosexuality and the Bible

Homosexuality and the Bible

There are 36029 comments on the www.smh.com.au story from Aug 15, 2011, titled Homosexuality and the Bible. In it, www.smh.com.au reports that:

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.smh.com.au.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#20285 Sep 28, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
The correct expression is invert, even though it's a bit old-fashioned.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/invert
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_inversion... (sexology)
You're the pervert round here, sonny.
That's right.
asd

Hawthorne, CA

#20289 Sep 29, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is it that you Christ-insanity-ists always see reality backwards?
It is the white, male, heterosexual Christian who is imposing their chosen deviancy of superiority and uniformity onto minorities who would like to be left alone.
America has planted the seeds of destruction to the pedestal that white, male, heterosexual Christians have placed themselves on. This whole entire conversation/discussion is about those not wanting to have their pedestals destroyed which forces them to share America with people they would prefer to feel superiour to.
The days of you bigots deciding what other people can and can't do with their bodies and their lives are almost over. I can hardly wait.
Dude, that is the single most telling thing about you people that refutes all claims of your deviancy being "natural:" whenever you are confronted with irrefutable truth, you always resort to name-calling, obfuscation and just simple lies.

You speak of "heterosexual Christians." Christians are people who believe in and follow the teachings of Christ. Christ taught the Bible, the Word of God. That Word says that you are an "abomination." A Christian can't be anything but heterosexual. But that doesn't mean sissies and bulldaggers can't write their own deviant bible and even open their own deviant institutions. Perhaps you all could call them "burches."

Feelings of "superiority" and desire for "uniformity" are simple character traits. Deviancies are generally physical acts. I don't think anybody is telling you people what to do with your bodies. I have never heard anybody say to one of you to not bend over, don't suck dick or a that woman shouldn't lick another woman's pussy or even do that pussy-bump thing I've heard they do.

I think that normal people just want you all to leave us the fq alone. If you want to engage in deviancy then engage the fq in deviancy: just don't involve us, and don't involve children, even your own. Other than that, Al, lick it up, suck it up, and bend on down. Free will, dude.
xxCJ_HOTxx

Buffalo, NY

#20290 Sep 29, 2013
asd wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude, that is the single most telling thing about you people that refutes all claims of your deviancy being "natural:" whenever you are confronted with irrefutable truth, you always resort to name-calling, obfuscation and just simple lies.
You speak of "heterosexual Christians." Christians are people who believe in and follow the teachings of Christ. Christ taught the Bible, the Word of God. That Word says that you are an "abomination." A Christian can't be anything but heterosexual. But that doesn't mean sissies and bulldaggers can't write their own deviant bible and even open their own deviant institutions. Perhaps you all could call them "burches."
Feelings of "superiority" and desire for "uniformity" are simple character traits. Deviancies are generally physical acts. I don't think anybody is telling you people what to do with your bodies. I have never heard anybody say to one of you to not bend over, don't suck dick or a that woman shouldn't lick another woman's pussy or even do that pussy-bump thing I've heard they do.
I think that normal people just want you all to leave us the fq alone. If you want to engage in deviancy then engage the fq in deviancy: just don't involve us, and don't involve children, even your own. Other than that, Al, lick it up, suck it up, and bend on down. Free will, dude.
Wow. Ok. Where to begin? First Jesus was anti hate. That's where you left him the first time. The more you spew out hate, you stab Jesus in the back with a knife each time.
Now for your "facts": the first of two mentions of what everyone says are the anti-gay comments, comes from the book of leviticus. Translated, it stands for "the book of the levites". If you were any kind of scholar, you would know that the levites were the priests. Simple logic says that the title therefore reads "the book of the priests." So in reality leviticus has no bearing whatsoever on anyone else but priests.
The second passage is from pauls letters to the romans. He is telling them not to commit adultery and nothing more. These soldiers were away from home for long periods of time and as any soldier in our modern day militia can attest, it's hard to stay faithful to their spouse if they are away from them for long periods of time. So, in reality, that really only applies to married men.
Third, Jesus makes no reference to homosexuality in the entire gospel. I would think, that given the hatred spewing out of peoples mouths, such as what you just did, that you'd at least have a quote from Jesus himself, backing you up and telling you why it's ok to "judge others" in this example.
Oh wait. That's right. He said the exact opposite..
Hmmm.. He also said somewhere that people who do not love others as they love God do not love God with their whole body mind and soul. He also said people like that, if they don't repent for those sins, go to hell. Btw.. I'm not judging you. I'm merely pointing out the several flaws in what you just said and your animosity towards others. Because the good book also tells us to address the sinner and make him aware of his sins so that he might repent.
Oh and one more thing.. I'm a gay Catholic with many years of Bible study behind me and a Bible teacher who can practically quote the Bible by heart. So don't even try to argue what it says with me, cause you will lose. Have a great day and God bless!
asd

Hawthorne, CA

#20291 Sep 29, 2013
xxCJ_HOTxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow. Ok. Where to begin? First Jesus was anti hate. That's where you left him the first time. The more you spew out hate, you stab Jesus in the back with a knife each time.
Now for your "facts": the first of two mentions of what everyone says are the anti-gay comments, comes from the book of leviticus. Translated, it stands for "the book of the levites". If you were any kind of scholar, you would know that the levites were the priests. Simple logic says that the title therefore reads "the book of the priests." So in reality leviticus has no bearing whatsoever on anyone else but priests.
The second passage is from pauls letters to the romans. He is telling them not to commit adultery and nothing more. These soldiers were away from home for long periods of time and as any soldier in our modern day militia can attest, it's hard to stay faithful to their spouse if they are away from them for long periods of time. So, in reality, that really only applies to married men.
Third, Jesus makes no reference to homosexuality in the entire gospel. I would think, that given the hatred spewing out of peoples mouths, such as what you just did, that you'd at least have a quote from Jesus himself, backing you up and telling you why it's ok to "judge others" in this example.
Oh wait. That's right. He said the exact opposite..
Hmmm.. He also said somewhere that people who do not love others as they love God do not love God with their whole body mind and soul. He also said people like that, if they don't repent for those sins, go to hell. Btw.. I'm not judging you. I'm merely pointing out the several flaws in what you just said and your animosity towards others. Because the good book also tells us to address the sinner and make him aware of his sins so that he might repent.
Oh and one more thing.. I'm a gay Catholic with many years of Bible study behind me and a Bible teacher who can practically quote the Bible by heart. So don't even try to argue what it says with me, cause you will lose. Have a great day and God bless!
You are right. Not a scholar. But scholarly enough to know obfuscation and simple dodging. And that's fine if that's how you want to do. Just seems that if you have a valid point you could make it without relying on so much irrelevant matter.

I don't see where you get hatred and animosity and judging. I never said they shouldn't do the dispicable things they do, just that I feel most normal people would prefer if they didn't seek so hard to impose their deviancy on the rest of society, and not try and perpetrate more of their kind by child molestation.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#20292 Sep 29, 2013
xxCJ_HOTxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow. Ok. Where to begin? First Jesus was anti hate. That's where you left him the first time. The more you spew out hate, you stab Jesus in the back with a knife each time.
Now for your "facts": the first of two mentions of what everyone says are the anti-gay comments, comes from the book of leviticus. Translated, it stands for "the book of the levites". If you were any kind of scholar, you would know that the levites were the priests. Simple logic says that the title therefore reads "the book of the priests." So in reality leviticus has no bearing whatsoever on anyone else but priests.
The second passage is from pauls letters to the romans. He is telling them not to commit adultery and nothing more. These soldiers were away from home for long periods of time and as any soldier in our modern day militia can attest, it's hard to stay faithful to their spouse if they are away from them for long periods of time. So, in reality, that really only applies to married men.
Third, Jesus makes no reference to homosexuality in the entire gospel. I would think, that given the hatred spewing out of peoples mouths, such as what you just did, that you'd at least have a quote from Jesus himself, backing you up and telling you why it's ok to "judge others" in this example.
Oh wait. That's right. He said the exact opposite..
Hmmm.. He also said somewhere that people who do not love others as they love God do not love God with their whole body mind and soul. He also said people like that, if they don't repent for those sins, go to hell. Btw.. I'm not judging you. I'm merely pointing out the several flaws in what you just said and your animosity towards others. Because the good book also tells us to address the sinner and make him aware of his sins so that he might repent.
Oh and one more thing.. I'm a gay Catholic with many years of Bible study behind me and a Bible teacher who can practically quote the Bible by heart. So don't even try to argue what it says with me, cause you will lose. Have a great day and God bless!
Your distinction of Leviticus is false.

Your dilution of Paul's words is false.

Both are rejected by the vast majority of Biblical scholars throughout history, not to mention the Judeo/Christian practices of faith. Oh, and your own Catholic faith.

Jesus referred to homosexuals in Matthew 19, in addressing the Disciple's question. The first category of eunuchs is clearly homosexual celibacy.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#20293 Sep 29, 2013
xxCJ_HOTxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow. Ok. Where to begin? First Jesus was anti hate. That's where you left him the first time. The more you spew out hate, you stab Jesus in the back with a knife each time.
Now for your "facts": the first of two mentions of what everyone says are the anti-gay comments, comes from the book of leviticus. Translated, it stands for "the book of the levites". If you were any kind of scholar, you would know that the levites were the priests. Simple logic says that the title therefore reads "the book of the priests." So in reality leviticus has no bearing whatsoever on anyone else but priests.
The second passage is from pauls letters to the romans. He is telling them not to commit adultery and nothing more. These soldiers were away from home for long periods of time and as any soldier in our modern day militia can attest, it's hard to stay faithful to their spouse if they are away from them for long periods of time. So, in reality, that really only applies to married men.
Third, Jesus makes no reference to homosexuality in the entire gospel. I would think, that given the hatred spewing out of peoples mouths, such as what you just did, that you'd at least have a quote from Jesus himself, backing you up and telling you why it's ok to "judge others" in this example.
Oh wait. That's right. He said the exact opposite..
Hmmm.. He also said somewhere that people who do not love others as they love God do not love God with their whole body mind and soul. He also said people like that, if they don't repent for those sins, go to hell. Btw.. I'm not judging you. I'm merely pointing out the several flaws in what you just said and your animosity towards others. Because the good book also tells us to address the sinner and make him aware of his sins so that he might repent.
Oh and one more thing.. I'm a gay Catholic with many years of Bible study behind me and a Bible teacher who can practically quote the Bible by heart. So don't even try to argue what it says with me, cause you will lose. Have a great day and God bless!
You are right however, Jesus is anti-hate. He is however pro truth. In fact, He inseparably connects truth and love.

“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

Clitty

#20294 Sep 29, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>

Jesus referred to homosexuals in Matthew 19, in addressing the Disciple's question. The first category of eunuchs is clearly homosexual celibacy.
Opinion. I happen to think it refers to asexual men.

What is it that Jesus said deliberately, distinctly, and intentionally about homosexuals.

Still waiting....

Troll on, KiMerde.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#20295 Sep 29, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
The correct expression is invert, even though it's a bit old-fashioned.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/invert
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_inversion... (sexology)
You're the pervert round here, sonny.
Shadow and KiMerde are perverts the world around. Pathetic creatures who think about gay sex more than gay people do.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#20296 Sep 29, 2013
asd wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude, that is the single most telling thing about you people that refutes all claims of your deviancy being "natural:" whenever you are confronted with irrefutable truth, you always resort to name-calling, obfuscation and just simple lies.
It is the Bible that tells the biggest lie. Any book that says homosexuality is wrong is wrong and should never be trusted to tell us about anything.

You do not trust your Bible and you hate Jesus.

First, a true follower of Jesus would have to be extremely poor--as poor as the proverbial churchmouse. The Bible makes this quite clear:
•(a) "...none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up everything he has" (Luke 14:33);
•(b) "If you want to be perfect, go and sell all you have and give the money to the poor and you will have riches in heaven" (Matt. 19:21);
•(c) "Sell your possessions and give alms" (Luke 12:33);
•(d) "But give what is in your cups and plates to the poor, and everything will be clean for you" (Luke 11:41);
•(e) "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt,.... But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven.... for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" (Matt. 6:19-21);
•(f) "How hardly shall they that have riches enter to the kingdom of God" (Mark 10:23);
•(g) "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" (Matt. 19:23-24);
•(h) A certain ruler told Jesus that he had obeyed all the commandments from his youth up. But, Jesus said, "Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me" (Luke 18:22, Mark 10:21),
•and (i) Paul said, "For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse, in order that I may gain Christ" (Phil. 3:8 RSV)

John 14:15 KJV, "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Since you do not keep any of Jesus' commandments you hate him.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#20297 Sep 29, 2013
asd wrote:
<quoted text>
You speak of "heterosexual Christians." Christians are people who believe in and follow the teachings of Christ. Christ taught the Bible, the Word of God. That Word says that you are an "abomination." A Christian can't be anything but heterosexual. But that doesn't mean sissies and bulldaggers can't write their own deviant bible and even open their own deviant institutions. Perhaps you all could call them "burches."
Christ-insanity-ists like your self continue to make baseless unconvincing assertions that the Bible is the word of God. This proves your ignorance of Biblical teachings.

The lavish personal wealth of many Christians bears witness to their avoidance of these biblical teachings, Luke 3:11, which says, "who has two coats, let him share with him who has none; and he who has food, let him do like-wise." One can only speculate as to the number of coats Christians have in their closets. Jesus said, "Give to him who asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matt. 5:42). Asking any modern Christian individual of any Christian denomination for a sizable portion of his or its wealth would be an exercise in futility. How many biblicists attempt to obey the biblical precept which says, "and from him who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. Give to every one who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again" (Luke 6:29-30 RSV)? They avoid Matt. 5:40, which says, "And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him also have thy cloak." Apologists don't mind quoting the prior verse (Matt. 5:39) about turning the other cheek, because it concerns attitudes and is not concrete; no direct physical denial is involved. Turning one's cheek is far less painful and tangible than turning in dollars. The former is more nebulous and subject to interpretation. Jesus commissioned his twelve disciples to, "provide neither gold nor silver, nor brass in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, not yet staves, for the workman is worthy of his meat" (Matt. 10:9-10). If these were the morally right procedures for the disciples of Christ 2,000 years ago, then they should have some relevance to his disciples of today. But the entourage and wealth accompanying any well-known evangelist on his periodic journeys highlights the inconsistency involved.

Early Christian groups even practiced a form of communal ownership of property. "And all that believed were together, and had all things common; and sold their possessions and goods and parted them to all men, as every man had need" (Acts 2:44-45, also note Acts 4:34-37). Yet, except for a few isolated communities, today's biblicists preach the opposite.

In summary, it's not enough to avoid the accumulation of wealth; one must actively seek to eliminate whatever property may come into one's possession.(See also: Acts 20:35, Rom. 12:13, Col. 3:2, Matt. 6:24). In so far as wealth and property are concerned, Christian monks, ascetics, and some factions of the Amish, for example, are far closer to biblical teachings than any of the well-known clergymen or denominations of today. While engaged in dialogue with a minister several years ago, I noted that his Lincoln Continental parked nearby was wholly inconsistent with biblical tenets. After offering the usual apologetic rationalizations (e.g., I live a frugal life and the Bible does not require me to give away what I own), he denounced my motives and left. Neither of his excuses was accurate.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#20298 Sep 29, 2013
asd wrote:
<quoted text> Christ taught the Bible, the Word of God.
Your level of ignorance and bigoted hatred is astoounding:

JESUS: Luke 19:27, "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."

Jesus must have been filled with the love of God to demand that.

2 Kings 18:27, " ...that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?"

Eating shit and drinking piss is the word of God. Now I know.

Micah 1:12, "...evil came down from the Lord ...."

Christ-insanity is that evil.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#20299 Sep 29, 2013
asd wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude, that is the single most telling thing about you people that refutes all claims of your deviancy being "natural:" whenever you are confronted with irrefutable truth, you always resort to name-calling, obfuscation and just simple lies.
..........
First, the "deviancy" is in your own mind. YOU are the one thinking about sex acts and the like, right? Unless you believe that living, working, loving, marrying, and everything that normal folks do is "deviant".

Because that's exactly way gay folks DO - the same things that everyone else does.

The only different is that God created gay folks with only the attraction to the same gender, for His own purposes. Yes, we do have a choice as to how we deal with that, and the majority of us choose to deal with it in the same way that YOU deal with your orientation. There is not a separate standard ONLY for gay folks.

We live, work, play, make friends, form families, raise kids, support charities, buy things, and eventually, we die.

If you want to choose a tiny difference to focus on, and imagine deviancy there, then that's your choice and your problem, but don't project it on folks you have never met.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#20300 Sep 29, 2013
asd wrote:
<quoted text>That Word says that you are an "abomination." A Christian can't be anything but heterosexual.
A Christ-insanity-ist like yourself is the abomination. A Christ-insanity-ist can't be anything but insane and delusional.

One of the most important concepts in Christianity is original sin or the belief that all mankind has inherited a sinful nature brought about by the acts of Adam and Eve.

Rom. 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"
Rom. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,..."
1Cor. 15:22 "For as in Adam all die,..."

Yet, no amount of theological reasoning can make an inherently unjust idea seem right. Punishing billions of people for the acts of one is not only inherently unfair and unwarranted but also in opposition to other Biblical verses such as:

Deut. 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers.
2 Chron.25:54, "...:every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
2 Kings 14:6, "wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

Ezek. 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bearthe iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

Ezek.33:20 "O ye house of Israel,I will judge you every one after his ways."

Jer. 31:29-30 "In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge."

Rom. 2:6 "Who will render to every man according to his deeds."

Ezek. 18:4 "... the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

Each of these verses shows that every person should only be punished for those sins which he commits, not those of others.

Original sin makes about as much sense as if I were sitting at home one evening and the following occurred. The police came to my door and stated I was under arrest because my father in Europe just shot and killed someone. I responded by asking what that had to do with me and they said, "He's your father isn't he?"

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#20301 Sep 29, 2013
asd wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think
On that we agree.

Rom.3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."
1Kgs. 8:46 "...for there is no man that sinneth not,...."
Prov.20:9 "Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?"
Eccl. 7:23 "For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not."
Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."
Rom. 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."
(Also 1 John 1:8 & 10, Rom. 3:12, 5:12, Gal. 3:22)

Versus

Gen. 6:9 "Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."
Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Job 1:8 "...my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?" (Job 2:3)
Gen. 7:1 "And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation."
Luke 1:5-6 "In the days of Herod, the king of Judaea,there was a priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abia: andhe had a wife of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.(RSV)

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#20302 Sep 29, 2013
asd wrote:
<quoted text> That Word says ....
John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time;..."
Exodus 33:20, And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
John 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father."
1 John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

Versus

Gen. 32:30 "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Exod. 33:11 "And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."
Num. 14:14 "...that thou LORD art seen face to face,..."
Job 42:5 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee."
Deut. 34:10 "And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,..."
Deut. 5:4 "The LORD talked with you face to face...."
(also Psalm 63:2 Isa.6:1 & 6:5, Amos 7:7-8, Ezek. 20:35, Ex 24:9-10

You are a moron to trust the Bible to tell you about anything.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#20303 Sep 29, 2013
asd wrote:
<quoted text> ...the Word of God. That Word says ...
The bat is a bird (Lev. 11:19, Deut. 14:11, 18);
Some fowls are four-footed (Lev. 11:20-21);
Some creeping insects have four legs.(Lev. 11:22-23);
Hares chew the cud (Lev. 11:6);
Conies chew the cud (Lev. 11:5);
Camels don't divide the hoof (Lev. 11:4);
The earth was formed out of and by means of water (2 Peter 3:5 RSV);
The earth rest on pillars (1 Sam. 2:8);
The earth won't be moved (1 Chron. 16:30);
A hare does not divide the hoof (Deut. 14:7);
The rainbow is not as old as rain and sunshine (Gen. 9:13);
A mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds and grows into the greatest of all shrubs (Matt. 13:31-32 RSV);
Turtles have voices (Song of Sol. 2:12);
The earth has ends or edges (Job 37:3);
The earth has four corners (Isa. 11:12, Rev. 7:1);
Some 4-legged animals fly (Lev. 11:21);
The world's language didn't evolve but appeared suddenly (Gen. 11:6-9; and
A fetus can understand speech (Luke 1:44).

You are a moron asd, an imbecile, a retard, but then most of your pew warmers are for believing the Bible can be trusted, it can't.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#20304 Sep 29, 2013
asd wrote:
<quoted text> Free will, dude.
One of the most prominent figures in modern church history, John Calvin, is strongly associated with a belief that is repugnant to most of Christendom, i.e., predestination. Most biblicists believe that God knows what will occur prior to the event but leaves man free to make the choice. In other words, men are free to choose what God already knows will happen. Calvin, on the other hand, stressed biblical pronouncements to the contrary. God doesn't just know ahead of time; he determines it; he fixes it; he plans it; it's his idea. In reality, Calvin viewed free will as myth. In so doing he highlighted one of the most serious, most prominent contradictions in biblical theology--free will versus determinism. His opponents rightly observed that the abolishment of free will destroys moral responsibility. But unfortunately for them literally scores of verses substantiate his position. An exhaustive list in descending order of strength would include the following:

(1) "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,.... Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" (Eph. 1:4-5),
(2) "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called...." (Rom. 8:28-30),
(3) "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Acts 13:48),
(4) "But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thess. 2:13),
(5) "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his (not our) own will" (Eph. 1:11),
(6) "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:10),
(7) "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you" (John 15:16),
(8) "For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:9 RSV),
(9) "A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps" (Prov. 16:9),
(10) "He will carry out what he has planned for me, and of many such matters He is mindful" (Job 23:14 Mod. Lang),
(11) "Only, let every one lead the life which the Lord has assigned to him, and in which God has called him" (1 Cor. 7:17 RSV),
(12) "...your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be" (Psalm 139:16 NIV),
(13) "Man's goings are of the Lord; how can a man then understand his own way?" (Prov. 20:24),
(14) "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" (Matt. 24:3l),(15) "...whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world,...." (Rev. 17:8),
(16) "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:15),
(17) "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him" (John 6:44),
(18) "...no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father" (John 6:65),
(19) "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call" (Acts 2:39),

To be continued:

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#20305 Sep 29, 2013
Continued:

(20) "Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the Lord's purpose that prevails" (Prov. 19:21 NIV),
(21) "The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the Lord" (Prov. 16:33),
(22) "Man's days are determined; you have decreed the number of his months and have set limits he cannot exceed" (Job 14:5 NIV),
(23) "From one man God made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live" (Acts 17:26 NIV),
(24) "...for that that is determined shall be done" (Dan. 11:36),
(25) "Therefore I endure all things for the elects' sakes that they may obtain the salvation which is in Christ...." (2 Tim. 2:10),(26) "And a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed" (1 Peter 2:8),
(27) "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men,...." (Jude 4),
(28) "Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts" (Psalm 65:4),
(29) "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,...chosen and destined by God the Father...." (1 Peter 1:1-2 RSV),
(30) "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" (2 Tim. 1:9),
(31) "And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved" (Acts 2:47),
(32) "The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord...." (Psalm 37:23),
(33) "Then the King will say to those at his right hand,'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Matt. 25:34 RSV),
(34) "...but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you" (John 15:19),
(35) "All that dwell upon the earth shall worship him (the Devil.) whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8),
(36) "Jesus said to them,'You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father'" (Matt. 20:23 NIV),
(37) "They (Herod, Pilate, the Gentiles and the people of Israel) did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen" (Acts 4:28 NIV),
(38) "He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen...." (Acts 10:41 NIV),
(39) "Who (Jesus) verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you" ((1 Peter 1:20), and
(40) "Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou comest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations" (Jer. 1:4-5).

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#20306 Sep 29, 2013
xxCJ_HOTxx wrote:
<quoted text> Jesus was anti hate.
Jesus: 14:26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#20307 Sep 29, 2013
xxCJ_HOTxx wrote:
<quoted text>The more you spew out hate, you stab Jesus in the back with a knife each time.
JESUS Matthew 25:40 MARY “Truly I tell you, whatever you do to the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you do to me.’

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