Homosexuality and the Bible

Aug 15, 2011 | Posted by: Selecia Jones- JAX FL | Full story: www.smh.com.au

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

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“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#20230
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Wolfgang E B wrote:
<quoted text>
Which psychologists? As long as I've been around (43 years), psychologists have known the negative effects of divorce on children.
<quoted text>
Promiscuity has always been a problem. Shame clearly doesn't work. Let's try to come up with a better strategy. Banning abortion isn't the answer though.
<quoted text>
How does marriage equality "brutalize the bonds of marriage?" And how is it "at the expense of children" when all of the legitimate studies have shown that children benefit when their parents are married, regardless of the parents' genders?
1. You are full of it; the issue is STILL debated;

http://www.pgepsychiatry.com/images/8/89/Pare...

2. Of course it has always been a problem, hence the powerful influence of mating behavior. The question is, has it increased since the removal of social constraints? You debate that too???

3. When the bond between natural parent and child is destroyed, any Tom and Dick is the same. Blood is thicker than water. All you have is water.

When a child is not just brutalized by divorce (are you aware of the pain of rejection in a person as the result of divorce?), but valued as not a person in the womb of it's mother, do you not think they reflect that value of themselves to other people???

“RAINBOW POWER!”

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Sep 27, 2013
 

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KiMare wrote:
1. You are full of it; the issue is STILL debated;
No I'm not. This is the first I've heard of any debate. I thought everyone knew divorce sucks for kids. That should be common knowledge.
KiMare wrote:
The question is, has it increased since the removal of social constraints?
Social constraints have varied in type and strictness from time to time, culture to culture, throughout history. Has there ever been any more or less promiscuity? We can't know for sure, but I think not. The stricter the social mores, the more discreet people are about their sexual escapades, but they're still going on just as much as at any other time.

I've long been an advocate for reducing promiscuity. The fewer unwanted pregnancies and STDs, the better. If everybody were smart about sex, we could eliminate both entirely. Wishful thinking, I know.
KiMare wrote:
3. When the bond between natural parent and child is destroyed, any Tom and Dick is the same. Blood is thicker than water. All you have is water.
So, you're against adoption? What then should we do with all the parentless children?

I'm not going to get into a debate about abortion.

“Marriage Equality”

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#20232
Sep 27, 2013
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>

When a child is not just brutalized by divorce (are you aware of the pain of rejection in a person as the result of divorce?), but valued as not a person in the womb of it's mother, do you not think they reflect that value of themselves to other people???
Jesus tap dancing Christ on a pogo stick; you do love to pontificate.

Children adopted into (or born into) LGBT homes are just as loved as any other child BECAUSE they are specifically desired. LGBT families don't have unwanted/unexpected pregnancies.

And, small children don't sit around rationalizing the intentions of their surrogate mothers vs. their adoptive parents.

You keep blathering on as if you're some sore of expert in these matters. The reality is that you have opinions.

Still married, in each and every sense of the word.
You are impotent to do anything about that because your opinions a just that.

Carry in, KiMerde.

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Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is it that you Christ-insanity-ists always see reality backwards?
It is the white, male, heterosexual Christian who is imposing their chosen deviancy of superiority and uniformity onto minorities who would like to be left alone.
America has planted the seeds of destruction to the pedestal that white, male, heterosexual Christians have placed themselves on. This whole entire conversation/discussion is about those not wanting to have their pedestals destroyed which forces them to share America with people they would prefer to feel superiour to.
The days of you bigots deciding what other people can and can't do with their bodies and their lives are almost over. I can hardly wait.
Dear Rev. Alan,

There is no real need or cause for injecting ANY racism into your message.

The original Hebrews included 12 tribes. These tribes proceeded to spread out and occupy a large swath of territory in the Middle East, blending over time with native populations from the Steppes of the Caucasus to the entire eastern coastal plain of Africa to northwestern Europe and eventually into North and South America. All human races today contain scattered genetic elements of Jewry and the Hebrew race.

Similarly, the actual Gospel of Christ continues to spread into every culture and race of Humanity across the planet.

What you are talking about is a fundamentalist, scripture-based, institutionalized set of bigoted views, held by individuals and groups who act like small tribes in order to develop a very parochial controlling unity.

Their views are not either exclusively or even a majority of black or white. Neither are these views primarily brown nor yellow race-based. But, these very discriminating and segregating views of others ARE found in every subset of Humanity. The same tribal influence at a primordial, subconscious level is the founding influence for gangs and cults of all sorts.

I am a white, male heterosexual Christian; an Episcopalian by birth and upbringing and to this day a member of The Episcopal Church in good standing. You cannot put me into that descriptive box - "Christ-insanity-ist. "

I am NOT an "insanity-ist" who sees things backwards. Although, there certainly ARE "insanity-ists" who disagree with my assessment of myself. They are welcome to their opinions, even if they are mistaken. It is a still a free country, despite persistent efforts by progressive political liberals to turn our Country into a nanny state. So, they get to see things their way.

But, they don't and won't always prevail.

Our job, should we wish to accept it, is to bring the actual Teachings of Christ Jesus to the fore. As an avowed "atheist," you may not think this is the right way to proceed. But, I will tell you it is. Jesus did not teach ANY adherence to anything less than the full reality and truth in Life, Light and Love.

If I understand you at all, that quest for and adherence to the truth is exactly what motivates you, also.

Rev. Ken
An ordained priest and disciple of Christ Jesus.

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KiMare wrote:
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rev,
I'm sorry, but the source I used referenced the use of eunuchs to clearly describe homosexuals.
Your feeble speculation and opinion does nothing to address that. Nor do you still present a viable explanation of what the passage describes.
Moreover, by your own claim, Jesus was and is capable of providing information that supersedes the knowledge of that time. My interpretation does exactly that. Your opinion fails.
Additionally, a simple search will show countless examples of my interpretation. Which made finding one from a homosexual position incredibly easy.
Perhaps this is portion that should be eliminated from your 'bible' so the diminishing number of your small god aren't confused???
You're sorry? I'd say you are very sorry. The source you used is not the source Jesus used.

Read post #20203 above, again Mr. Kimare.

You apparently failed to read it or failed to read and comprehend it the first time, leading to your discombobulated reply above.

Above you say my claim fails. Then you say your claim does exactly that.

Then you try to rely on "countless examples of" YOUR interpretation!!! LOL! Yes. There are countless people in this world who are woefully uninformed and disturbingly misguided upon whom you can continue to rely. Some of them even resort to drinking tiger piss and sniffing powdered rhino horn in order to get their courage up enough to take their idiotic views on tour.
The Lord only knows what you have imbibed over the years to get to your present state of affairs.

You end your misguided missive above with three question marks after making an error confused statement.

Well,... LOL!!!... I guess that those question marks are, in a sense, appropriate.

You're lost, Kimare. And you don't quite know where to look or what to use to find a steady bearing toward the safety of dry ground.

Here is what the Lord said: "If thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of Light."

Rev. Ken

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

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Sep 27, 2013
 

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WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't read any of their posts. Just scroll right past. They are obsessed people in need of therapy. Why bother with the mentally ill?
You are exactly right of course. One should just step over their posts like one steps over dog shit on the side walk.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

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RevKen wrote:
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Dear Rev. Alan,
There is no real need or cause for injecting ANY racism into your message.
I am a white, male heterosexual Christian; .
Do you put yourself on a pedestal?

I am or was talking about in America the white, male, heterosexual, Christians who insisted that slavery be the law of the land in America. Who also refused to allow women to exercise their right to vote and gays to exist outside the closet.

If you are a Christian you must accept God's slavery plans, the second class citizenship of women and that gays should be put to death.

How can you claim to be a Christian when you ignore huge portions of the Bible? This is what makes Christians so unacceptable, each one has his own verses that he accepts and those he rejects.

Your Bible God tells you how slaves are to be treated, how slavery is to be regulated. Your Bible God informs you why women should not vote, as they are as much below their husbands as their husband is below Christ. And you are informed that gays "shall" be put to death.

Who the hell do you think is supposed to be doing that putting?

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KiMare wrote:
I remember when the Church rose up against divorce. Most couples worked through the ups and downs of marriage because of God, and maybe more so, because of the children. But then psychologists claimed divorce had no affect on children.
And the government intervened with no fault divorce. And the Church decided it was more important to welcome divorced people than to protect the life-long devastation it imparts on children.
I remember when the Church rallied against legalizing abortion. The shame of immorality reined in promiscuity. But doctors said the cost of back alley abortions was too great.
And the government intervened once again. And the Church decided not being harsh was more important than 40 million children being murdered.
Now the Church is being challenged to call ss couples the same as marriage. The courts say mutually sterile, duplicated gendered halves are equal to marriage.
And the government is once again poised to intervene. And the Pope is recommending that once again the Church step back.
Can't help but wonder what on earth that means for children.
All that is left is, "...and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death." Matthew 10:21
Isn't that the logical response when we have brutalized the bonds of marriage and family at the expense of children?
#1. "The Church," or whatever denomination(s) you may be referring to, has always discouraged divorce.

However, some Churches, some pastors, priests, ministers and secular judges and psychiatrists and most reputable organizations representing the majority view of these people are in agreement about divorce. That is, that sometimes it is unavoidable and that oftentimes, no one person is to be found "at fault."

#2. I do not know of ANY reputable psychology or psychiatry organization that has EVER claimed that divorce had no effect on children. Your statement is a blatant misrepresentation.
No. It is an outright lie, intended to bolster your baseless opinion.

#3. The government did not intervene with no-fault divorce. Reasonable people realized that many divorces occur because of factors that do not lend themselves to a determination of fault that can be assigned to either divorcing person.

#4. "And the Church decided it was more important to welcome divorced people than to protect the life-long devastation it imparts on children."

You are not excused for producing such a ridiculous, farcical claim. First of all, some very large Churches, today, continue to penalize people who have undergone a divorce. Secondly, Jesus Christ specifically acknowledged that Mosaic Law allowed for divorce. He also spoke of the consequences. But, He NEVER said that a divorce would result in a state of refusal of forgiveness and mercy for the divorced person.

Neither did He EVER, at any time, as reported in ANY scripture, require that a divorced person be refused the opportunity to marry again after having been divorced.

#5. The rest of your diatribe above, regarding abortion and the children rising up to put their parents to death is such a convoluted illogical back-asswards drift that it deserves no reply.

I am personally very glad that you are not preaching that stuff in my neck of the woods.

You are out there, Kimare.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out there.

Rev. Ken
SHADOW

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Sep 27, 2013
 

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WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. Just look at all the judge-its. He lives in open rebellion to the Bible's many commands.
You, alan and the unrev need to go look in a mirror pervert and stop projecting your perverted chosen lifestyle on the rest of the normal world.
Dickerman

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I have to say it's amazing how many stupid uneducated filthy Queer PedophiIes we have loafing on these threads. It's appalling that these uncouth perverts be allowed out in society, let alone on these threads. Take Rev. Fagg@t AKA
Rev. Alan for example, it's one of the most disgusting pieces of sh!t there is on here. It's really hard to imagine, just how many little boys he's molested in his time. It's just sickening, just sickening.

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Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you put yourself on a pedestal?
I am or was talking about in America the white, male, heterosexual, Christians who insisted that slavery be the law of the land in America. Who also refused to allow women to exercise their right to vote and gays to exist outside the closet.
If you are a Christian you must accept God's slavery plans, the second class citizenship of women and that gays should be put to death.
How can you claim to be a Christian when you ignore huge portions of the Bible? This is what makes Christians so unacceptable, each one has his own verses that he accepts and those he rejects.
Your Bible God tells you how slaves are to be treated, how slavery is to be regulated. Your Bible God informs you why women should not vote, as they are as much below their husbands as their husband is below Christ. And you are informed that gays "shall" be put to death.
Who the hell do you think is supposed to be doing that putting?
Excuse me. No.

You cannot and will not stereotype me under YOUR description of what a "Christian" is supposed to be.

If I look into my own genetic heritage, how far shall I go to find relevant information? 100 years? 500 years? 5,000 years?

How about 20,000 years? If I go back that far - and I can and do - what do I find? I find common DNA and RNA in my own self that can be traced to humans on every continent today. We ARE ALL the SAME. My daughter can breed with your son and vice versa. And their progeny, if that should occur, will likely be just as capable and intelligent as either you or I ever claimed to be.

NO White Male American Christian claims or insists today that slavery be the Law of the Land - any more than any Black, Fundamentalist, Evangelical "Christian" American can make the same claim.

I am sure that there are still a fair number of white male - and female - Americans, more in some vicinities than in other vicinities, that continue to call themselves "Christians" and continue to regard themselves as genetically and even spiritually superior to all other variations of humans. But, their claims are not necessarily true or valid. Just because they call themselves "Christians" does not make them so.

Hitler regarded himself to be a "Christian." Was he?
Not in my book. But, then, my book is not anything more than my own opinion and I understand that of myself. I have the right to think of Hitler, based upon my own experience and understanding of his life and legacy. I am not and was not his creator. But, I am his fellow Human Being.

Just as I am a fellow Human Being to you. Just as I am a fellow Human Being to Jesus Christ.

To be a disciple of Jesus Christ, I am not required by Him to accept any part or passage or section of the Bible as incontrovertible Truth. A good part of it was written and compiled after He left. So, it simply is what it is, regardless of the sources or translative texts that have been written, decided upon and utilized to compile the particular version being produced for reference.

In a sense, it is no more authoritative a text than is "A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy."

That is why I don't mind your oft repeated comparisons of contradictions in biblical texts. The contradictions and errors do certainly exist just as you have presented them.

Your problem with so-called "Christians" is not with their actual beliefs. Beliefs can be changed.

Your problem is with HOW these people have come to believe what they believe. That part is ancient, traditional, institutional, cultural, tribal and even developed in subconscious patterns that are designed to pit one person against another because of perceived differences. This is how hypocrisy and bigotry persist.

And, because beliefs are like this, they take time and persistent sacrifice to change.

Rev. Ken

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Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
You are exactly right of course. One should just step over their posts like one steps over dog shit on the side walk.
No kidding. ROTFLMAO

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SHADOW wrote:
<quoted text>
You, alan and the unrev need to go look in a mirror pervert and stop projecting your perverted chosen lifestyle on the rest of the normal world.
STFU evil reprobate.

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Dickerman wrote:
I have to say it's amazing how many stupid uneducated filthy Queer PedophiIes we have loafing on these threads. It's appalling that these uncouth perverts be allowed out in society, let alone on these threads. Take Rev. Fagg@t AKA
Rev. Alan for example, it's one of the most disgusting pieces of sh!t there is on here. It's really hard to imagine, just how many little boys he's molested in his time. It's just sickening, just sickening.
Nice rant bro. Now go take your meds.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

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RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuse me. No.
You cannot and will not stereotype me under YOUR description of what a "Christian" is supposed to be.
If I look into my own genetic heritage, how far shall I go to find relevant information? 100 years? 500 years? 5,000 years?
How about 20,000 years? If I go back that far - and I can and do - what do I find? I find common DNA and RNA in my own self that can be traced to humans on every continent today. We ARE ALL the SAME. My daughter can breed with your son and vice versa. And their progeny, if that should occur, will likely be just as capable and intelligent as either you or I ever claimed to be.
NO White Male American Christian claims or insists today that slavery be the Law of the Land - any more than any Black, Fundamentalist, Evangelical "Christian" American can make the same claim.
I am sure that there are still a fair number of white male - and female - Americans, more in some vicinities than in other vicinities, that continue to call themselves "Christians" and continue to regard themselves as genetically and even spiritually superior to all other variations of humans. But, their claims are not necessarily true or valid. Just because they call themselves "Christians" does not make them so.
Hitler regarded himself to be a "Christian." Was he?
Not in my book. But, then, my book is not anything more than my own opinion and I understand that of myself. I have the right to think of Hitler, based upon my own experience and understanding of his life and legacy. I am not and was not his creator. But, I am his fellow Human Being.
Just as I am a fellow Human Being to you. Just as I am a fellow Human Being to Jesus Christ.
To be a disciple of Jesus Christ, I am not required by Him to accept any part or passage or section of the Bible as incontrovertible Truth. A good part of it was written and compiled after He left. So, it simply is what it is, regardless of the sources or translative texts that have been written, decided upon and utilized to compile the particular version being produced for reference.
In a sense, it is no more authoritative a text than is "A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy."
That is why I don't mind your oft repeated comparisons of contradictions in biblical texts. The contradictions and errors do certainly exist just as you have presented them.
Your problem with so-called "Christians" is not with their actual beliefs. Beliefs can be changed.
Your problem is with HOW these people have come to believe what they believe. That part is ancient, traditional, institutional, cultural, tribal and even developed in subconscious patterns that are designed to pit one person against another because of perceived differences. This is how hypocrisy and bigotry persist.
And, because beliefs are like this, they take time and persistent sacrifice to change.
Rev. Ken
I can not keep up with what Christians believe because each of you believes something different and most of the time it is at odds with what the Bible teaches. Are we to go with what the Bible says or what you believe? Do you see the problem here?

It doesn't matter what you or I believe about slavery, to be a Christian you have to give biblical teachings priority over your own personal beliefs no matter how irrational biblical teachings are.

And I have yet to meet a Christian who does not claim that other Christians are not the real thing.

Why is that?

We are very different people, you read in the Bible how slavery is established and regulated and you don't acknowledge the verses because why? They are not relevant?

I on the other hand read the slavery verses and say the Bible is a bunch of nonsense, an extreme evil that has no place in American Society.

I was a pre-teen when my gay cousin showed me in the Bible one of the 6 anti-gay verses and told me that is what he was, an abomination in the eyes of God. I told him that any book that says homosexuality is wrong is not worth reading.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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Wolfgang E B wrote:
<quoted text>
No I'm not. This is the first I've heard of any debate. I thought everyone knew divorce sucks for kids. That should be common knowledge.
<quoted text>
Social constraints have varied in type and strictness from time to time, culture to culture, throughout history. Has there ever been any more or less promiscuity? We can't know for sure, but I think not. The stricter the social mores, the more discreet people are about their sexual escapades, but they're still going on just as much as at any other time.
I've long been an advocate for reducing promiscuity. The fewer unwanted pregnancies and STDs, the better. If everybody were smart about sex, we could eliminate both entirely. Wishful thinking, I know.
<quoted text>
So, you're against adoption? What then should we do with all the parentless children?
I'm not going to get into a debate about abortion.
I accept your conceding on the first two points.

Where did I insinuate that I'm against adoption?

I simply and accurately point out that if you destroy the sense of value of life, and the closest relationships we can possess, is it any wonder children pick that value system up and return the favor?

You deny that blood is thicker than water. You assert that there is no difference between the only person in life you will know as a biological mother or father, and any Tom and Dick. And the child says,'okay'.

That is the only way to understand a prophecy that indicates the loss of that distinction.
InfoMan

Fenton, MO

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Reverend Alan wrote:
And I have yet to meet a Christian who does not claim that other Christians are not the real thing.
Why is that?
We are very different people, you read in the Bible how slavery is established and regulated and you don't acknowledge the verses because why? They are not relevant?
I on the other hand read the slavery verses and say the Bible is a bunch of nonsense, an extreme evil that has no place in American Society.
I was a pre-teen when my gay cousin showed me in the Bible one of the 6 anti-gay verses and told me that is what he was, an abomination in the eyes of God. I told him that any book that says homosexuality is wrong is not worth reading.
um, Protestants?
plenty of Christians may not acknowledge other's whom effectively follow the same faith to be 'true' Christians...

that being said, the problem with the Bible (and all religion for that matter) is simply no one really reads it all. Those that praise it ignore the bad parts, those that hate it ignore the good parts.

Oh the bible says Homosexuality is an abomination!
- yeah, a few passages before most of those quotes also states that the Unchaste Woman should be put to death for not waiting for a husband to marry her. That's like 2/3rds of the 'single female' population right there.

Oh the bible is bad, it says Having Slaves is alright!
- and it gives you guide lines, rules, obligations, and restrictions on how you can treat them. when those rules are followed, those slaves don't have that different a relationship as employee's have with their employer.
SHADOW

Boerne, TX

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WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
STFU evil reprobate.
WOW, do you eat with that same mouth??
Does your mommy know you talk like that? Bet not.
SHADOW

Boerne, TX

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Sep 27, 2013
 

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WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice rant bro. Now go take your meds.
"Dickerman wrote:
I have to say it's amazing how many stupid uneducated filthy Queer PedophiIes we have loafing on these threads. It's appalling that these uncouth perverts be allowed out in society, let alone on these threads. Take Rev. Fagg@t AKA
Rev. Alan for example, it's one of the most disgusting pieces of sh!t there is on here. It's really hard to imagine, just how many little boys he's molested in his time. It's just sickening, just sickening."
Can't adress the post fagg@t

“RAINBOW POWER!”

Since: Oct 08

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KiMare wrote:
Where did I insinuate that I'm against adoption?
KiMare wrote:
You deny that blood is thicker than water. You assert that there is no difference between the only person in life you will know as a biological mother or father, and any Tom and Dick. And the child says,'okay'.
That is the only way to understand a prophecy that indicates the loss of that distinction.
Okay, I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. You seem to be insinuating that biological parents are always superior to adoptive parents. That simply isn't true, and not just "any Tom and Dick" can be a good father. Raising a child well requires an enormous self-sacrifice that not everyone is willing to make.

Also, as RevKen pointed out, we're all related to one another by blood; the entire human species is one big family.

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