Homosexuality and the Bible

Homosexuality and the Bible

There are 36053 comments on the www.smh.com.au story from Aug 15, 2011, titled Homosexuality and the Bible. In it, www.smh.com.au reports that:

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.smh.com.au.

Since: Aug 11

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#16265 Feb 5, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
I said "such as".
Smile.
http://carm.org/manuscript-evidence
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintay...
If you want more, let me know.
Proving that the Bible was written by a bunch of men. So what?

The Bible is still crap.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16266 Feb 5, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Proving that the Bible was written by a bunch of men. So what?
The Bible is still crap.
No, I proved you don't know what you are talking about.

Bazinga!

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#16268 Feb 5, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I proved you don't know what you are talking about.
Bazinga!
:)
El Segundo

United States

#16269 Feb 5, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I proved you don't know what you are talking about.
Bazinga!
:)

“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

Clitty

#16270 Feb 5, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I proved you don't know what you are talking about.
Bazinga!
Not really.

:-)

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#16271 Feb 5, 2013
So, how will it go with RevKen, the man with the problems? ;):)
Robsan5

San Leandro, CA

#16272 Feb 5, 2013
Manmanman wrote:
So, how will it go with RevKen, the man with the problems? ;):)
So, how will it go with Man3/ES, the man who posts under two different names, and often asks himself questions that he doesn't understand?

Robert
Robsan5

San Leandro, CA

#16273 Feb 5, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
The newer versions have incorporated recent finds such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Also as language changes, old English can be more easily misunderstood.
There are no 'new' assaults on classic Christian doctrine. Just new attempts to justify immorality.
Smile.
The word 'homosexual' wasn't coined until the late 1800's, and wasn't added to the bible until 1946. What word in the bible did it replace, and why is it a more accurate translation for a word that didn't exist 1500-2000 years ago?

Snicker Snort.

Robert

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16274 Feb 5, 2013
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
The word 'homosexual' wasn't coined until the late 1800's, and wasn't added to the bible until 1946. What word in the bible did it replace, and why is it a more accurate translation for a word that didn't exist 1500-2000 years ago?
Snicker Snort.
Robert
Greek NASB Number: 733a

Greek Word: &#7936;&#961;&#963 ;&#949;&#957;&#959 ;&#954;&#959;&#805 5;&#964;&#951;&#96 2;

Transliterated Word: arsenokoitês
Root: from 733b and 2845;

Definition: a sodomite:--

List of English Words and Number of Times Used
homosexuals (2). New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#16275 Feb 5, 2013
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/05/matt...

Do you think David Moore has a GRINDR account?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#16276 Feb 5, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ 2013/02/05/matt-moore-grindr-e x-gay-christian-blogger_n_2622 614.html
Do you think David Moore has a GRINDR account?
No it's a different guy.
Robsan5

San Leandro, CA

#16277 Feb 5, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Greek NASB Number: 733a
Greek Word: &#7936;&#961;&#963 ;&#949;&#957;&#959 ;&#954;&#959;&#805 5;&#964;&#951;&#96 2;
Transliterated Word: arsenokoitês
Root: from 733b and 2845;
Definition: a sodomite:--
List of English Words and Number of Times Used
homosexuals (2). New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.
"In both letters, Paul uses an obscure Greek term (the New Testament is almost entirely in Greek) that has lately been translated with prejudice. The particular word is the rare gutter word arsenokoites, a compound word composed of arsen meaning man in the sense of ‘male adult,’ and koites meaning ‘bed’(with undertones that suggest having sex). Its meaning is impossible to be specific about (it is not found anywhere else in the Bible and almost nowhere in all Greek literature."
"History of Arsenokoites

There is no example of the word arsenokoites before Paul’s two uses of it. Thereafter it occurs no more than 74 times in the intervening millennia, with 56 of these in the six centuries after Paul coined it.

Around 35 A.D., the Jewish philosopher Philo (a contemporary of Paul’s) held that arsenokoites referred to shrine prostitution (Philo, The Special Laws, III, VII, 40-42). This is the origin this site suggests for it (see comments on the letters to Timothy and Corinth), though the context suggests that Paul may have been condemning pederasty, group sexual orgies, and/or people who are not innately gay/lesbian/bisexual but who engage in homosexual acts. Philo apparently felt that the word condemned pederasty and incest as well.

Somewhat later appeared the apocryphal Acts of John (a 2nd-century Christian text) and the Sibylline Oracles (a third- or fourth-century Jewish text); in both the word occurs among sins related to economics, i.e., sex induced by a need for money. A meaning reflecting homosexual rape appears in the second century Apology of Aristides (chapters 9 and 13) and the third century Refutatio Omnium Haeresium of Hippolytus. The Apology tells of the rape by Zeus of the mortal boy Ganymede; in a somewhat similar tale in Hippolytus (chapter 5), a fallen (male) angel named Naas forcibly rapes Adam in the Garden. Both of course share the common thread of an aggressor forcing himself on a weaker individual – a meaning that would also fit the other contexts quite well.

A revealing use of it appears around 575 A.D.; Joannes Jejunator (John the Faster), the Patriarch of Constantinople, used the word in a treatise that instructed confessor priests how to ask their parishioners about sexual sin. Here it appears in the context of a paragraph dealing with incestuous relations, and if translated as ‘homosexuality,’ the sentence containing it would read “In fact, many men even commit the sin of homosexuality with their wives.”(Patrologiae cursus completus, Series Graeca, 88:1893-96) Though at the time it apparently referred to anal or oral sex or to sex forced upon a woman, it pretty clearly had nothing to do with homosexuality.

And, because arsen is singular, there was a long period leading up to the Reformation in which the term was taken to refer to masturbation (i.e., involving only one male), a translation that persists in some Greek dictionaries today."

Robert
Robsan5

San Leandro, CA

#16278 Feb 5, 2013
Con't-
"Other Meaning Evidence

Paul’s obvious knowledge of the Jewish scriptures makes the analysis of arsenokoites as referring to shrine prostitution compelling for an objective researcher.

Suppose, however, that such simple logic is set aside in finding the word’s meaning.

In Greek culture, relationships between men (and particularly between a master and his pupil) were common; they were an important theme in literature, and there was a range of very specific Greek words that Paul could have chosen among. The argument has been made that Paul coined a new term because he wanted to condemn more than just, say, pederasty, and his new term avoided using a multitude of specific Greek terms in order to cover the whole subject. This demonstrates both prejudice and a solid ignorance of ancient Greek; Greek also had general words to refer to homosexuality.

Trying to figure out what the word means by looking just at its component parts is linguistically naïve. Of course, at one time the meaning of any compound word did depend on some aspects of the parts, but language change and usage quickly alter and can obscure this. Consider the parts of ‘chairman,’ which did indeed begin with ‘chair’(meaning ‘throne,’ something it doesn’t mean nowadays) and ‘man’ but now is compounded to produce a very different word that doesn’t necessarily involve either chairs or men.

A case can be (though usually isn’t) made that arsenokoites does apply to homosexuality by using the analogy of some other (mostly very rare) compound words of similar vintage. Arsenokoites – the first part of which means ‘adult male’– appears to fit neatly within a pattern:
• doulo·koitEs consorter with slaves (slave-bedder)
• deuteron·koite to have a bed-fellow (two-bedder)
• polu·koitos promiscuity (many-bedder)
• homo·koitos
• enOto·koitEs bedfellow (same-bedder)
with ears large enough to sleep in (ears·bed)
Unfortunately for such a scheme, there is already a combination for sex with a male:

• andro·koitEs having intercourse with a man
and it is a feature of languages that they do not create different forms for identical meanings.

In addition, consider the parts of enOto·koitEs. A logical meaning for this word, if the key were analogy to the others in the set, would be something like ‘a person with a (sexual) ear fetish.’ The morphology of a word provides clues to how it was originally made, but in terms of meaning, it only shows how very fertile the process of language creation is. A similar process could produce arseno + koites = man + bed, &#8776; man sleeping &#8594; couch potato."
Robsan5

San Leandro, CA

#16280 Feb 5, 2013
Genius, you still haven't said what word was replaced in 1946 by 'homosexual', and why 'homosexual' is a more accurate word than the word it replaced.

Snicker Snort.

Robert
Robsan5

San Leandro, CA

#16281 Feb 5, 2013
Hey Genius, which of these 'accurate' translations is THE accurate translation of 1 Corinthians 6:9-11?
"The full text of the American Standard Version reads:
"Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God."
The list of activities that will eliminate any possibility of salvation has been expressed by various English translations as:
-American Standard Version: unrighteous, fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with men, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers or extortioners.
-Amplified Bible: unrighteous and wrongdoers; impure and immoral, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuality, cheats (swindlers and thieves), greedy graspers, drunkards, revilers and slanderers, extortioners and robbers
-The Answer: people who do wrong; sin sexually, worship idols, take part in adultery, male prostitutes, men who have sexual relations with other men, steal, greedy, get drunk, lie about others, rob
-The Authentic New Testament: evil-doers; immoral, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, userers, drunkards, foul-mouthed, extortioners
-Christian Standard Bible: sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, or swindlers
-The Jerusalem Bible: people who do wrong; people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers
-King James: unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners
-Living Bible: going to outside judges, immoral, idol worshipers, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, greedy, drunkards, slanderers, robbers
-The Living New Testament: those doing such things, live immoral lives, idol worshipers, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, slandermongers, robbers
-Modern Language: unrighteous; profligates. idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, avaricious, drunkards, slanderers, robbers
-James Moffatt: wicked; immoral, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, lustful, drunken, abusive, robbers
-New American: unjust; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, boy prostitutes, practicing homosexuals, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers, robbers
-New American Standard: unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, homosexuals, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers or swindlers.
-New Century Version: people who do wrong, sin sexually, worship idols, take part in adultery, men who have sexual relations with other men, steal, selfish, get drunk, lie about others, cheat
-New International: wicked; sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexual offenders, thieves, greedy, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers
-New Living Translation: those who do wrong; those who indulge in sexual sin, idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy, drunkards, abusers, swindlers
-New Revised Standard Version: wrongdoers; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, greedy drunkards, revilers, robbers
Robsan5

San Leandro, CA

#16282 Feb 5, 2013
Con't-

"Text of 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
from various versions of the Bible

-New Testament and Psalms:(3) wrongdoers; sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, thieves, greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers
-New World: unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, men kept for unnatural purposes, men who lie with men, thieves, greedy persons, drunkards, revilers or extortioners.
-The Promise: evil people; immoral, worships idols, unfaithful in marriage, pervert or behaves like a homosexual...thief, greedy person, drunkards, anyone who curses and cheats others.
-Revised English Bible: wrongdoers; fornicator, idolater, adulterer, sexual pervert, thief, extortioner, drunkard, slanderer, swindler.
-Revised Standard: unrighteous; immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers
-Rheims New Testament: unjust; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, liers with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, railers, extortioners
-The New Testament: lechers, idolaters, adulterers, effeminates, pederasts, thieves, covetous, drunken, abusive, rapacious (Translated by Richmond Lattimore)
-Today's English Version: wicked, immoral, worship idols, adulterers, homosexual perverts, steal, greedy, drunkards. slanders, thieves
-The United Gospels New Testament: unrighteous; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners"

Snicker Snort.

Robert

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#16285 Feb 5, 2013
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
So, how will it go with Man3/ES, the man who posts under two different names, and often asks himself questions that he doesn't understand?
Robert
:)

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#16287 Feb 6, 2013
Manmanman wrote:
<quoted text>
:)
What's the matter Blue Bottle Fly?

Tongue stuck in another cowpie?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16288 Feb 6, 2013
Robsan5 wrote:
Genius, you still haven't said what word was replaced in 1946 by 'homosexual', and why 'homosexual' is a more accurate word than the word it replaced.
Snicker Snort.
Robert
You missed one explanation.

Paul was trained the Jewish law as a Pharisee.'Man/bed'(arsenokoit &#275;s) is a direct reference to OT law forbidding gay sex. This has been the common, consistent and predominate interpretation of both Jews and Christians.

Moreover, your attempt to wedge the approval of any form of adultery or fornication into Judeo/Christian sexual doctrine is silly stupid.

'Homosexual' was used when it became the common word for gay sex, just as 'gay' transitioned from meaning happy to meaning homosexual.

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16289 Feb 6, 2013
Robsan5 wrote:
Hey Genius, which of these 'accurate' translations is THE accurate translation of 1 Corinthians 6:9-11?
...
You are asserting that there is only one way to describe something.

Which word is THE accurate translation of your orientation?

Homosexual
Gay
Pervert
Faggot

Need I go on?

Words transition. Some lose favor while others gain. At a certain point in time, translations acknowledge that transition of words. Later, those words become outdated, and new translations are created.

This happens with all classic literature. Hence you have classics 'written in modern English'. Some are well done and others are not.

The NASB is considered the most 'accurate' translation to date in modern English. It is however, not as 'readable' as others, so translations such as the NIV are more popular.

Maybe you should stick with things you understand, rather than things you hate. It hinders honesty.

Smile.

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