Homosexuality and the Bible

Homosexuality and the Bible

There are 36050 comments on the www.smh.com.au story from Aug 15, 2011, titled Homosexuality and the Bible. In it, www.smh.com.au reports that:

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.smh.com.au.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#26281 Mar 20, 2014
#26264

IMPUDICITIA AND PEDERASTY

“We cannot know the extent to which individual preferences directed some men toward women alone, others toward young men alone, but the writings of the classical period assume a more-or-less equal sexual disposition toward women and young men.” p. 87.

“The ethic that encouraged the sexual availability of women, young men, and slaves of both sexes to adult males corresponded neatly with and probably originated in men's social dominance over these groups.” p. 87.

Roman pederasty was problematic.“... sexual penetration defined male sexuality.” To be male and penetrated “threatened one's manliness.” Romans did not understand Greek pedophilia (modern terminology) and therefore did not follow the Greek code.“The Christian writer Tertullian, for example, in alluding to the sexual penetration endured by a slave boy, had only to mention that he was “used as a Greek [utitur Graeco].” Nonetheless, there were distinct differences between the conventions of Greek and Roman pederasty. Romans frowned upon the sexual penetration of free adolescent males, even while they permitted the penetration of male slaves. An attempt may even have been made to criminalize the sexual penetration of free males in the late republic with the lex Scantinia, although so little is known of the law that it is difficult to discuss it with certainty, and it apparently went mostly unenforced.110 By stigmatizing sex with free adolescent males, Romans sought to guarantee that the men who would become their future social leaders would not be tainted by sexual passivity.... Romans also denounced sexual passivity in adult males and vociferously condemned the men they called cinaedi (a Greek-borrowed word), males who refused to switch from penetrated to penetrator, but denounced them with a frequency that belies the effectiveness of any prohibition. So central was this stigma of sexual passivity in adult males that it could be described simply as impudicitia in the classical Latin sources-- that is, as the opposite of what was appropriate to male sexuality.” p. 88.

Culturally, pedophilia was different in Roman culture because culturally men were seen differently than in Greek culture. In Greece, a man-boy relationship nurtured the boy for adulthood. In Roman culture, borrowed pedophilia was applied to boys that were slaves; beneath free men. Where Greek culture transitioned boys to manhood, Roman culture perpetuated sexual passivity. In Greek antiquity, there was no homosexuality but in Roman culture, the Greek influence of pedophilia laid the cultural acceptance of homosexuality. This merging of cultures was accomplished because Eunuchs were incorporated into the courts of Rome. Eunuchs became very powerful. They were imported because changing Roman law, forbidding Roman males from becoming a Eunuch, allowed for wealthy Romans to incorporate Eunuchs into their family affairs. These Eunuchs came as highly educated males, a third sex, they garnered legal rights from the Roman legislation. Eunuchs also worked their way into the Early Church. At no time were Eunuchs considered homosexual.

At some time in history the Church must have made the distinction.

“There is no reason to believe, despite one historian's attempt to convince us otherwise, that the proliferation of statements against sexual passivity represented some increase in the number of men who participated in it or their liberation from the restraints of the stigma attached to it.123” p. 90.

“ The trouble with pederasty, in other words, was that a young man might not know when to stop.” p.91.

Prohibitions against sexual passivity in males became necessary in late Roman antiquity to stop the erosion of male dominance. Laws broken were punishable by death. p. 92. The Eunuch prospered for awhile but later became persecuted. After Constantine, Eunuchs found refuge in the Roman Church. That cultural pederasty continued amongst priests, bishops and popes.

Cont->

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#26282 Mar 20, 2014
Jimmy2014 wrote:
Don't you people have anything better to do than preach in online forums? Troll much?:)
Straight is right, Gay is half right, Religion is wrong, there, problem solved... get yourselves some much needed fresh air. Lol
Better re-check the thread topic.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#26283 Mar 20, 2014
Cont.:

Like I said, homosexuality cannot be proven to have not existed by any documentation because there is no documentation that validates what is not. To document homosexuality in antiquity one must find documents that specifically define homosexuality. As with pedophilia, a modern term, is documented by the defining acts in literature but homosexuality is not. Homosexuality cannot be associated with pedophilia. By modern standards pedophilia is a perversion. Pedophilia, in the strongest of terms, meant kidnapping, putting into slavery, sexually abusing young boys. Later Roman antiquity meant denouncing sexual passivity in men. Sexual passivity was destroying Rome where laws were established on the basis of patriarchal society.

Since: Feb 14

London, UK

#26284 Mar 20, 2014
All Hail Mighty RevKen!

You think you're gods gift, thinking because you have so much time to spend on your pretentious posts that your some kind of wise man? I wish I had as much free time as you have, I come on here when I have some time to kill whereas you spend the majority of your time here preaching the same BS, a few posts back you were even talking down to someone because of his grammar and punctuation, that says a lot about you. You're just an uppity, self loving, bible bashing cave troll.
The way you write your posts makes that evident, always trying to better or outsmart someone else like your life has no other meaning than to best a stranger online, pathetic charade.

Spending an hour writing a comment and filling it with big words and google sourced information doesn't make you special, It makes you a f#cking loser, get a life and have a nice day you dirty theist

And before you spend an hour or 2 thinking up one of your legendarily pretentious posts to 'best' me, don't bother, use that time to do something productive with your wasted life, like go for a walk, or make some friends, anything that doesn't involve your arse on a chair and doesn't require an Internet connection.:)

You have nearly 7000 posts, that's pathetic lol
Stan Dandyliver

Denpasar, Indonesia

#26285 Mar 20, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously a lot of sensible people do. And for some reason, that makes it a threat to both atheists and Islamists...
Smile.
The Islamists, of course, have their Koran, which makes them just as deluded as the christians.
We atheists just read what we enjoy and don't pay much attention to non - existent all powerful invisible supernatural thingamybobs.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#26286 Mar 20, 2014
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!!!.... Maybe so.
Then again, you might want to review your own Post #26268 above.
Here is what YOU wrote:
"The context is a celibate eunuch born that way. It is perfectly clear rev."
Your point?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#26287 Mar 20, 2014
akopen wrote:
#26264
IMPUDICITIA AND PEDERASTY
“We cannot know the extent to which individual preferences directed some men toward women alone, others toward young men alone, but the writings of the classical period assume a more-or-less equal sexual disposition toward women and young men.” p. 87.
“The ethic that encouraged the sexual availability of women, young men, and slaves of both sexes to adult males corresponded neatly with and probably originated in men's social dominance over these groups.” p. 87.
Roman pederasty was
Cont->
Now you are defending pederasty???

I'm worried about you Ak

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#26288 Mar 20, 2014
Stan Dandyliver wrote:
<quoted text>
The Islamists, of course, have their Koran, which makes them just as deluded as the christians.
We atheists just read what we enjoy and don't pay much attention to non - existent all powerful invisible supernatural thingamybobs.
Explain the Alien visit that created the Jews out of a bunch of slaves.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#26289 Mar 20, 2014
Jimmy2014 wrote:
All Hail Mighty RevKen!
You think you're gods gift, thinking because you have so much time to spend on your pretentious posts that your some kind of wise man? I wish I had as much free time as you have, I come on here when I have some time to kill whereas you spend the majority of your time here preaching the same BS, a few posts back you were even talking down to someone because of his grammar and punctuation, that says a lot about you. You're just an uppity, self loving, bible bashing cave troll.
The way you write your posts makes that evident, always trying to better or outsmart someone else like your life has no other meaning than to best a stranger online, pathetic charade.
Spending an hour writing a comment and filling it with big words and google sourced information doesn't make you special, It makes you a f#cking loser, get a life and have a nice day you dirty theist
And before you spend an hour or 2 thinking up one of your legendarily pretentious posts to 'best' me, don't bother, use that time to do something productive with your wasted life, like go for a walk, or make some friends, anything that doesn't involve your arse on a chair and doesn't require an Internet connection.:)
You have nearly 7000 posts, that's pathetic lol
Jimmy, I may not agree with everything RevKen says but he is right on with his comments about the Homosexuality and the Bible. Your, above post, is what is pathetic. Just because you make uninformed comments that amount to your opinion does not excuse you from making a civil, educated response to this forum's topic.

Pathetic!

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#26290 Mar 20, 2014
Stan Dandyliver wrote:
<quoted text>
The Islamists, of course, have their Koran, which makes them just as deluded as the christians.
We atheists just read what we enjoy and don't pay much attention to non - existent all powerful invisible supernatural thingamybobs.
If this was a discussion about Atheist as opposed to Christian then you'd have a point to make. It is not! The title of the forum is Homosexuality and the Bible. If you don't understand the Bible and you don't have any constructive information regarding what the Bible says or does not say then, back off!

If you do have something about what the Bible says about homosexuality then lets have that discussion.

As an Atheist you must bring your understanding of the Bible to participate in this discussion.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#26291 Mar 20, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you are defending pederasty???
I'm worried about you Ak
First you ask me to defend something that does not exist because you cannot defend your own opinion then you fail to clarify your point and now you somehow declare that I defend pederasty.

Do you ever understand what you read?

Asinine!

You have no constructive comment about what I wrote regarding pedophilia and homosexuality. You don't because you have nothing but your opinion that you erroneously defend your Christianity with. You are biblically ignorant, historically ignorant and ignorant about Christianity's 2000 years of discourse.

When are you going to realize that you're missing the boat?

Glass houses shatter!

You remind me of someone believing that they are dieting because the packaging says that they are eating less calories, healthy food, natural food. Convincing yourself of a falsehood does not make you a Christian.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#26292 Mar 20, 2014
Jimmy2014 wrote:
All Hail Mighty RevKen!
You think you're gods gift, thinking because you have so much time to spend on your pretentious posts that your some kind of wise man? I wish I had as much free time as you have, I come on here when I have some time to kill whereas you spend the majority of your time here preaching the same BS, a few posts back you were even talking down to someone because of his grammar and punctuation, that says a lot about you. You're just an uppity, self loving, bible bashing cave troll.
The way you write your posts makes that evident, always trying to better or outsmart someone else like your life has no other meaning than to best a stranger online, pathetic charade.
Spending an hour writing a comment and filling it with big words and google sourced information doesn't make you special, It makes you a f#cking loser, get a life and have a nice day you dirty theist
And before you spend an hour or 2 thinking up one of your legendarily pretentious posts to 'best' me, don't bother, use that time to do something productive with your wasted life, like go for a walk, or make some friends, anything that doesn't involve your arse on a chair and doesn't require an Internet connection.:)
You have nearly 7000 posts, that's pathetic lol
All that was just two varieties of Fallacy ...

Argumentum ad Hominem

and it's Red Herring corollary

Appeal to Ridicule

Lose two debate points.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#26293 Mar 20, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Your point?
I'd say that it was that your thinking is as muddy as your sentences suggest ... perhaps moreso.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#26294 Mar 20, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you are defending pederasty???
I'm worried about you Ak
"defending" ?

That's not what I read.

Will you ever stop with the Straw Man? It's a form of lying, you know.

The discussion was about the culture of the Greeks in comparison with other cultures.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#26295 Mar 20, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Explain the Alien visit that created the Jews out of a bunch of slaves.
Prove that it was an "Alien visit".

Since: Feb 14

London, UK

#26296 Mar 20, 2014
Ow, that hurt...:) Too much Wikipedia for you buddy, you can't even insult someone without being a smart arse, bravo!...Encore?

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#26297 Mar 21, 2014
#26281

#26283

IMPUDICITIA AND PEDERASTY

The Manly Eunuch, Masculinity, Gender Ambiguity, and Christian Ideology in Late Antiquity, Mathew Kuefler.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#26298 Mar 21, 2014
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove that it was an "Alien visit".
~The account describes a visit from an extra-terrestrial Being.

~Proximity to the Alien brought radiation like dangers and required radiation like protections.

~Proximity to the Alien caused repeated consequences to Moses.

~The Alien craft hovered for extended periods of time resulting in lights and vapor.

~The prediction by the Alien is apparent to this day despite unprecedented attempts at extermination.

That's a general overview.

Smile.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#26299 Mar 21, 2014
Jimmy2014 wrote:
All Hail Mighty RevKen!
You think you're gods gift, thinking because you have so much time to spend on your pretentious posts that your some kind of wise man? I wish I had as much free time as you have, I come on here when I have some time to kill whereas you spend the majority of your time here preaching the same BS, a few posts back you were even talking down to someone because of his grammar and punctuation, that says a lot about you. You're just an uppity, self loving, bible bashing cave troll.
The way you write your posts makes that evident, always trying to better or outsmart someone else like your life has no other meaning than to best a stranger online, pathetic charade.
Spending an hour writing a comment and filling it with big words and google sourced information doesn't make you special, It makes you a f#cking loser, get a life and have a nice day you dirty theist
And before you spend an hour or 2 thinking up one of your legendarily pretentious posts to 'best' me, don't bother, use that time to do something productive with your wasted life, like go for a walk, or make some friends, anything that doesn't involve your arse on a chair and doesn't require an Internet connection.:)
You have nearly 7000 posts, that's pathetic lol
Dear Kookaratcha Jimmy,

You've been bested by the dirty theist.

... Lol ...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#26300 Mar 21, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
~The account describes a visit from an extra-terrestrial Being.
~Proximity to the Alien brought radiation like dangers and required radiation like protections.
~Proximity to the Alien caused repeated consequences to Moses.
~The Alien craft hovered for extended periods of time resulting in lights and vapor.
~The prediction by the Alien is apparent to this day despite unprecedented attempts at extermination.
That's a general overview.
Smile.
Prove it using readily verifiable, non-ontological evidence.

It's mythology stupid.

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