Homosexuality and the Bible

Homosexuality and the Bible

There are 36038 comments on the www.smh.com.au story from Aug 15, 2011, titled Homosexuality and the Bible. In it, www.smh.com.au reports that:

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.smh.com.au.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#25269 Feb 12, 2014
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
That my dear, Angel, is the defacto definition for marriage in the OT.
You lay you pay.
There is nothing in the OT that defines what marriage is except what you just quoted. Other passages in the OT say as much. But nowhere is there a precept of God that defines what marriage is.
Thanks for pointing that passage out.
How about Genesis 2:24 as a definition of what marriage is in the Bible?
Angel

Aurora, CO

#25270 Feb 12, 2014
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
I was not saying that the Bible is American. The Bible has nothing to say about homosexuality, period. It does not matter that one is Christian or not. That is my point. Christians have misread the Bible and they are trying to impose that on government and, I might add with little success.
I'm just saying, he was making an effort.
I told him it would be better if he just practiced love instead of preaching and hating. He agreed.
Angel

Aurora, CO

#25271 Feb 12, 2014
Charlie Feather wrote:
<quoted text>
How about Genesis 2:24 as a definition of what marriage is in the Bible?
The bible? Gods only law is love.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#25272 Feb 12, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Think about the rapist!?
<quoted text>
Big whoop. A fine? For rape?
<quoted text>
Stuck how? The Hebrews practiced polygamy. It's not like having that wife limits him from having another. And that wife would do work for him, provide children, and had to service him sexually (more rape).
<quoted text>
In-laws that don't like you...who you can simply avoid seeing...or move away from? Wow that's ROUGH for a rapist.
What we are really doing is quibbling about the punishment. We are not quibbling about whether it was permitted or not. That is a settled issue. It was not. You think the punishment should be more severe. Rape was at one time a capital offense in several US states. That has changed and is now a lesser offense. Should we make it a capital offense once again? Just what should be the appropriate punishment?

In the Bible, the punishment was what it was. Maybe you are not happy about this, but you really don't have an argument left. Rape was not permitted in the Bible.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#25273 Feb 12, 2014
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
Why, yes, Charlie, it does constitute a happier world to live in.
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I'm sorry. What constitutes a happier world to live in?
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So, you really do get it. Why is this idealogy not the premise from which you read the Bible?
It took you a while.
Angel

Aurora, CO

#25274 Feb 12, 2014
Charlie Feather wrote:
<quoted text>
What we are really doing is quibbling about the punishment. We are not quibbling about whether it was permitted or not. That is a settled issue. It was not. You think the punishment should be more severe. Rape was at one time a capital offense in several US states. That has changed and is now a lesser offense. Should we make it a capital offense once again? Just what should be the appropriate punishment?
In the Bible, the punishment was what it was. Maybe you are not happy about this, but you really don't have an argument left. Rape was not permitted in the Bible.
Why do you keep saying that?

Deut
25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#25275 Feb 12, 2014
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
Charlie, if you read more clearly you would have seen that homosexuality was not what Genesis 19 was about, not even for one minute. At the very least 19 spoke of rape. Now, since the townspeople, men and women, young and old were at Lot's doorstep what makes you think that homosexuality was there intent?
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Akopen! I get it! You can stop flogging that dead horse! What I think was the intent of the townsmen was to "lie with a male in the same way a man lies with a woman." It was their way of saying hello.( Inhospitable, indeed!!) I see nothing wrong with that. In Russia, men kiss each other on the mouth as a greeting. In some European countries as well. In others, the men give each other the 'bise', and in some countries around the world the men even shake hands……ewww!

I don't know. All of that seems a lot like homosexual behavior to me, but what do I know?

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#25276 Feb 12, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
A contradiction does not give one knowledge of lying. There are other possibilities:
1) The snake's information, which was delivered after God's, was more up to date, and thus correct.
2) Either the snake, or God, was mistaken.
Have you ever been around children who do not yet comprehend the concept of lying? They will pretty much believe anything at face value.
<quoted text>
...why not? Was Eve aware that Satan was lying or trying to trick her? No. Moreso, she was not even *capable* of such awareness.
-
This just keeps getting weirder and weirder.

A contradiction tells one that something is not right. Maybe further research is needed. Anyway, Eve had a brain and could have put two and two together. She wasn't a child. She was a fully functioning adult and probably smarter than you are now.

Since: Feb 14

Hamilton, Canada

#25277 Feb 12, 2014
Amt013 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not trying to start an arguement but we aren't all going to hell because we've all sined. We have to ask God for his forgiveness and he will forgive us. He wipes your slate clean and gives you a chance to start over. Why is it so hard for people to believe in God? The bible is a historical piece of literature. You believe in the holacaust don't you? The bible has more proof and backing than any other historical document. What is there to debate over??
what other texts support what the bible says. i believe in Christ and God BTW. Tell me when was Jesus actually born and when did He actually die?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#25278 Feb 12, 2014
Charlie Feather wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a saying that "all great minds think alike." That is because they are all tuned into the same mind. The Biblical prophets were all tuned into the mind of God, and the works they produced is a result of this. That's what inspiration means.
Not really. There are disparate stories in the Bible. For example, the two creation stories are mutually exclusive. God would know how much water is in the world. There isn't enough water to cover Mt. Ararat. What's more, God would know that the world is over 4 billion year old, yet Mt. Ararat is but a few thousand years old. Nobody knows the mind of God. How pretentious.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#25279 Feb 12, 2014
Charlie Feather wrote:
<quoted text>
-
Akopen! I get it! You can stop flogging that dead horse! What I think was the intent of the townsmen was to "lie with a male in the same way a man lies with a woman." It was their way of saying hello.( Inhospitable, indeed!!) I see nothing wrong with that. In Russia, men kiss each other on the mouth as a greeting. In some European countries as well. In others, the men give each other the 'bise', and in some countries around the world the men even shake hands……ewww!
I don't know. All of that seems a lot like homosexual behavior to me, but what do I know?
Excuse me. Leviticus did not exist. How could they think those words? What's more, it is completely impossible to do that. Besides, it is also a well known mistranslation. What it actually meant was to never sleep with another man in your wife's bed.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#25280 Feb 12, 2014
Angel wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you keep saying that?
Deut
25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days
Exactly.

Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."

Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them,'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.


The women were obviously raped.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Obviously the virgins were raped.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#25281 Feb 12, 2014
(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Rape them.. GREAT

Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)



"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."


Once again God approves of forcible rape.
Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)

They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil.(Judges 5:30 NAB)

Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)



When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.(Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

These lofty ideas were brought to you by God-inspired Prophets right?

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#25282 Feb 12, 2014
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, define what is abusive of a homosexual act.
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I think I've made myself clear on that issue. I have nothing more to say about it.
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Secondly, 1:28; 2:18; 2:24 are not God's precepts that condemn any form of human sexuality.
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Those verses reveal God's model for human sexuality: A man and a woman united in a lifelong bond where they will raise the children born to them. Any deviation from that model is a perversion of design, which is condemnable in itself.
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2:18 is about God making a suitable partner for Adam but in 2: 19 God brings to man various animals to be his partner. God presenting beastiality to man. Go figure.
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OH! Give us a break!!(Eye roll)
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Please note, also that this is no precept of God's, for marriage. Marriage is not even mentioned here, not by translators nor by God.
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This is a completely specious argument relying on a mere semantic technicality.
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Thirdly, given that homosexuals are the progeny of parents from time to time, they too are a creation of God.
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Not a creation of God; a mistake of nature. Man is subject to his fallen nature since his disobedience to God and his expulsion from Eden..
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Some men are born a eunuch, other men make themselves a eunuch and still some men are forced to be eunuchs. Isaiah 56: 1-8; A New Word on Homosexuality, FREDERICK J. GAISER, Word & World, Volume XIV, Number 3, Summer 1994, http://wordandworld.luthersem.edu/content/pdf... . There are those heterosexuals that do not want children. Heterosexuals that cannot have children. There are those heterosexuals and homosexuals that take on adoptions and give children without parents, family a chance to grow up loved.
You see, Charlie, there is great goodness in homosexuals.
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It is not homosexuality, itself, that is the cause of any goodness. This is gross fallacy of yours. I wish snyper were here to tell us which one it is.

Synper!
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What you mean by normative is so evidently prejudiced. If you mean to say that homosexuality could some how have an overwhelming effect on changing this norm as related to procreation, well, Charlie that has not happened through all the years of human existence. Never will unless mothers only give birth to homosexuals.
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There is no prejudice. It is just wholesome values. We, as a society, should uphold the traditional family as the normative model for the sexual relationship. This has proven itself to work well in the best interests of all.
Jacob

Dade City, FL

#25283 Feb 12, 2014
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
Most certainly not your personal god, Lacon.
What? What does Lacon mean?
Jacob

Dade City, FL

#25284 Feb 12, 2014
Angel wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible? Gods only law is love.
I don't mean to be rude, but there's 10 laws: the 10 Commandments. Just saying, not trying to start an argument.
chesteralancheet oh

United States

#25285 Feb 12, 2014
My main thing is that the Bible says 1. Don't Judge and 2. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I shouldn't discriminate against someone just because they sin differently than I do. Neither should anyone else. Let them get married. That's between them, their partner, and Jesus.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#25286 Feb 12, 2014
Charlie Feather wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sure the followers of Aten would have eventually discovered that he and Jehovah were one and the same God. After all, if there is only one supreme being, then He is going to be the same person regardless of what name people know Him by.
That doesn't follow.

Two people can believe in completely different supreme beings, with different personalities, different viewpoints, and different systems.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#25287 Feb 12, 2014
Charlie Feather wrote:
<quoted text>
What we are really doing is quibbling about the punishment. We are not quibbling about whether it was permitted or not. That is a settled issue. It was not.
You're missing the point. The "punishment" involves *MORE RAPE* for the victim. Hebrew law did not recognize the right of a woman to refuse to have sex with her husband. It allowed marital rape.
Charlie Feather wrote:
Maybe you are not happy about this, but you really don't have an argument left. Rape was not permitted in the Bible.
Non-consensual sex, also known as rape, was permitted (by husbands). Given that marriage itself did not require consent, their law allowed men to have sex with women of their choosing, without the woman's consent.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#25288 Feb 12, 2014
Charlie Feather wrote:
<quoted text>
This just keeps getting weirder and weirder.
A contradiction tells one that something is not right. Maybe further research is needed.
I agree.
Charlie Feather wrote:
Anyway, Eve had a brain and could have put two and two together. She wasn't a child. She was a fully functioning adult and probably smarter than you are now.
What gives you the impression that Adam and Eve had a high level of intelligence? Clearly Eve didn't register the contradiction and deduce that maybe she should inquire further. Neither had "knowledge of good and evil", which also places them pretty firmly in the child-zone, even by Biblical standards.

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