Homosexuality and the Bible

Homosexuality and the Bible

There are 36055 comments on the www.smh.com.au story from Aug 15, 2011, titled Homosexuality and the Bible. In it, www.smh.com.au reports that:

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.smh.com.au.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#25208 Feb 12, 2014
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me.
I think Jacob needs to define what he means by spirit.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#25209 Feb 12, 2014
akopen wrote:
Our society ignores Jesus' teaching about divorce. Half of all marriages end up in divorce. Half as many do not bother with marriage. Those divorced remarry. This is adultery. Adultery in the Bible is when a man has intercourse with a married woman.……
That then is why Jesus addressed divorce. Throwing out a woman, to the streets, left that woman desolute. That is the sin that Jesus addressed. Responsibility, justice to and for women.
This then begins to address what morality in the Bible is about. Morality is not moralism like you want or say it is.
I can easily analyze the situation you've presented with the effects based test I presented earlier. Does divorcing a woman such that she is left destitute on the street make for a better world? Does having one more miserable person in the world make it a better one? Well, no and no.

This is what constitutes the moral issue in every act and behavior: the effect upon the person, upon those around the person, upon society, upon the world and existence, itself. Does this contribute to a world that one would be happy to live in?

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#25210 Feb 12, 2014
Angel wrote:
<quoted text>
I absolutely don't hate the messenger. But there may be a vast difference in spreading the message, and spreading hate.
Try this:
I want you to know that God loves you, no matter what you do or say. I'm not trying to convert you or anything, just letting you know.:)
Thank you. You've made me feel so good. You are doing your job. Now let me do mine.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#25211 Feb 12, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
His god was named Aten.
I know. I Googled it, also.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#25212 Feb 12, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Which comment? It somehow couldn't be repeated?
<quoted text>
God told them eating from the tree was bad. The snake told them eating from the tree was good. They had no concept of "lying" and therefore could not have understood why such a decision would be bad.
They didn't need any concept of lying. They only needed to have faith in God and trust him.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#25213 Feb 12, 2014
Charlie Feather wrote:
<quoted text>
-
My comment goes beyond homosexuality. I was using Sodom as an emblem of wickedness, a city given over to libertinism and depravity. I mean, what kind of place is it where just regular folks, with the approval and complicity of all, demand that visitors be brought to them so they can be raped? Imagine if on your vacation travels you happened upon a city like that and before you check into your hotel, the people around you try to gang rape you. Wouldn't you find the people there detestable and flee?
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<quoted text>
-
This is incredible! In your mind, the only thing that might make a society unlivable to you is if it were a theocracy. Like, that's the worse that can happen! But you'd have no problem if, in following its free course, the nation came to resemble the depraved and licentious Sodom and Gomorra just so long as it wasn't a theocracy!
You are assuming that a nation like the US that comes to accept standards similar to Sodom and Gomorra, where licentiousness and depravity are accepted norms, will somehow also continue to abide by the same traditions and spirit that it has these past two hundred years. Can you see the obvious contradiction here? A depraved nation will quash those traditional values, just like it is happening now.
America has succeeded as well as it has largely because of its Christian population and its overwhelming influence on the policies and direction of the nation since its inception. But the more America becomes like Sodom and Gomorrah, the less it will remain Christian.
Charlie, you assume that the sin of Sodom was homosexuality, it was not. If the US is like Sodom then it is because of Christians. Only 9% of Americans place religion as the most important part of their life.

When you have something factual to say I'll begin to listen to you.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#25214 Feb 12, 2014
Angel wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey. Settle down. You ask for acceptance, and for the hate to stop, and when that comes, this is your reply? It has to come from both ends. Take a breath.
If it were not a political issue, I'd back off and let psuedo-Christians do what they want to but, when they insist on others believing as they do they tread on my freedom. Hell will freeze over before I back off.

Biblicists would love it if they got their way without any interference.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#25215 Feb 12, 2014
Angel wrote:
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 ESV / 52 helpful votes
“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.
So you can rape a woman as long as you buy her?
And she is forced to marry and stay with the rapist?
Yeah! But think about the man! He is out 50 shekels, stuck his entire life with a wife he probably never really wanted, and now has a bunch of hostile in-laws. That might discourage a man from raping just any woman. He might want to choose the prettiest woman from the richest family if he were going to rape any. But that is problematic, also.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#25216 Feb 12, 2014
Charlie Feather wrote:
<quoted text>
This is what constitutes the moral issue in every act and behavior: the effect upon the person, upon those around the person, upon society, upon the world and existence, itself. Does this contribute to a world that one would be happy to live in?
It's funny you should speak this way, as the rape laws in the OT we were just discussing IGNORE the primary effect of rape that occurs to the traumatized and physically harmed woman in favor of a secondary, and culturally dependent, financial effect to her father, who has lost the bride price of a virgin daughter.

It is a "you break it, you bought it" law, not a law to safeguard women.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#25217 Feb 12, 2014
Angel wrote:
<quoted text>
I absolutely don't hate the messenger. But there may be a vast difference in spreading the message, and spreading hate.
Try this:
I want you to know that God loves you, no matter what you do or say. I'm not trying to convert you or anything, just letting you know.:)
How convienent Angel. Condemn homosexuality as if God says it is a sin and keep telling homosexuals they are loved.

I think you missed the whole point of the Bible.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#25218 Feb 12, 2014
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
Charlie, you assume that the sin of Sodom was homosexuality, it was not. If the US is like Sodom then it is because of Christians. Only 9% of Americans place religion as the most important part of their life.
When you have something factual to say I'll begin to listen to you.
A more careful reading with a bit more logical rigor should show you that I do not assume that the sin of Sodom was homosexuality. That was just one manifestation of their general depravity.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#25219 Feb 12, 2014
Charlie Feather wrote:
<quoted text>
I know. I Googled it, also.
I knew it from a "World Archaeology" course I took way back in college. Akhenaten was a pretty interesting figure. Some people even speculate his religion has links with Judaism.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#25220 Feb 12, 2014
Angel wrote:
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 ESV / 52 helpful votes
“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.
So you can rape a woman as long as you buy her?
And she is forced to marry and stay with the rapist?
That my dear, Angel, is the defacto definition for marriage in the OT.

You lay you pay.

There is nothing in the OT that defines what marriage is except what you just quoted. Other passages in the OT say as much. But nowhere is there a precept of God that defines what marriage is.

Thanks for pointing that passage out.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#25221 Feb 12, 2014
Charlie Feather wrote:
<quoted text>
They didn't need any concept of lying. They only needed to have faith in God and trust him.
The snake gave Eve a piece of information - that eating the fruit would NOT result in death. With no concept of lying, how could she have known that information was incorrect?

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#25222 Feb 12, 2014
Angel wrote:
Galatians 5:14 ESV / 35 helpful votes
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word:“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
And what happened to this? Gods only law, the whole of Gods teaching, Love.
Genesis 1:27 begins that relationship with mankind.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#25223 Feb 12, 2014
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Red Herring Fallacy: Straw Man
Correlative-based Fallacy: Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Causal Oversimplification Fallacy
Moralistic Fallacy: Fact-Value Distinction
Let's consult the people who wrote the stories, rather than medieval gentile traditions, eh?
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13827-...
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10122-...
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5015-d...
and
Ezekiel 16:49
“‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."
Appeal to Authority Fallacy
Lazy As Crap Fallacy

You are going to have to do better than just copy and paste any old text you happen to select.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#25224 Feb 12, 2014
Charlie Feather wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah! But think about the man!
Think about the rapist!?
Charlie Feather wrote:
He is out 50 shekels,
Big whoop. A fine? For rape?
Charlie Feather wrote:
stuck his entire life with a wife he probably never really wanted
Stuck how? The Hebrews practiced polygamy. It's not like having that wife limits him from having another. And that wife would do work for him, provide children, and had to service him sexually (more rape).
Charlie Feather wrote:
, and now has a bunch of hostile in-laws.
In-laws that don't like you...who you can simply avoid seeing...or move away from? Wow that's ROUGH for a rapist.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#25225 Feb 12, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
The snake gave Eve a piece of information - that eating the fruit would NOT result in death. With no concept of lying, how could she have known that information was incorrect?
God had already told her that she would die if she ate the fruit. Here was an obvious contradiction, then. Eve would have acquired the concept of lying at that very moment, when faced with this contradiction. So, why did she take Satan's word on this and not God's?

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#25226 Feb 12, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Honesty isn't your strong suit is it? Correction. You have no idea what honesty means, do you.
Here is the article you reworded with your bigotry and ignorance;
As mentioned in my previous article ("War Against Distant Cities"), slavery as a result of being taken prisoner in war was common in the Ancient Near East [1][2]. Another common practice was women marrying those whom had conquered their city or tribe. In this instance, the Law set down the procedure for an Israelite man who decided to marry a woman from among those who had been captured as prisoners of war.
Again, as in previous passages, this passage must be considered in a cultural and historical context. We must consider the situation of the woman who was taken captive. Her parents, or at least her father, were most likely dead as a result of being killed during the war. It is likely that any brothers or other male family members that she had were also dead. This left her in a desperate situation [3][4]. The only choice that she would have to survive would be slavery or prostitution. However, there was another way that would slightly elevate her social status and give her a better future - marriage.
There were clear regulations set down in this instance. For example, the man could not have sex with the woman that he chose to take home as his wife immediately. It is clear that this passage is not approving rape. The situation was very specific - she was not a sex slave or a victim of rape; the man was to take her to his house with the intention of marrying her. Before they could be married, she had to shave her head (an Eastern custom symbolizing the transfer from one nationality/religion to another, also used as a sign of purification and new status; see Leviticus 14:8 and Numbers 8:7), trim her fingernails, and put away the clothes she was wearing when she was captured, signifying the end of her old life and the beginning of her new life. She was then to mourn for her parents for a month (verses 12-13), and then the man could marry her and they could have sex. This gave the woman time to grieve her losses and adapt to her new situation.
We must remember when reading this passage that people, especially women, who lived in the Ancient Near East had little to no choice who their spouse would be. Parents arranged marriages for their children [5]. With this in mind, the woman taken captive would be in a similar situation, marrying a man that she had not chosen. It may seem strange in our modern Western culture, but this was the situation in ancient times.
Finally, there was a law in this passage that protected the woman. If the man who had married her decided he no longer wanted her, he could not then enslave her or sell her as a slave to someone else. He had to let her go free (verse 14).
Far from being an approval of forcible rape, this passage set clear boundaries for men who wanted to take home captive women, detailing the proper procedures and providing protection for the woman involved.
Why, KiMare, you've amazed me. Just one thing stands out as conjecture, marriage. What we call marriage was the taking of a woman then. There was no marriage in the OT. Just because some modern translator calls having premarital sex marriage as if to cover up the idea that all a man had to do was "gamos" a woman and he became responsible to that woman, doesn't mean that marriages took place in the OT.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#25227 Feb 12, 2014
Charlie Feather wrote:
<quoted text>
I can easily analyze the situation you've presented with the effects based test I presented earlier. Does divorcing a woman such that she is left destitute on the street make for a better world? Does having one more miserable person in the world make it a better one? Well, no and no.
This is what constitutes the moral issue in every act and behavior: the effect upon the person, upon those around the person, upon society, upon the world and existence, itself. Does this contribute to a world that one would be happy to live in?
Why, yes, Charlie, it does constitute a happier world to live in.

So, you really do get it. Why is this idealogy not the premise from which you read the Bible?

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