Homosexuality and the Bible

Homosexuality and the Bible

There are 36053 comments on the www.smh.com.au story from Aug 15, 2011, titled Homosexuality and the Bible. In it, www.smh.com.au reports that:

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.smh.com.au.

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#23247 Dec 11, 2013
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Coincidently the Catholic Church considers homosexuality not a sin either, but an intrinsic disorder that requires therapy when it becomes pathological, e.g., when all of your posts on Topix come from the Gay/Lesbian forum.
It is a sin when it involves priests and little boys.
randy andy

Sydney, Australia

#23248 Dec 11, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
I usually say that there is no difference between what comes out of his mouth and what comes out of his ass, but the way you said it is much more poetic. Thumbs up.
although it wasn,t intended to be as poetic, but thanx rev!.Diarrhea is the passage of loose, unformed stools. In most cases there is a large volume of stool and an increased number of bowel movements. The two most common causes of diarrhea and as with KIM or whatever his name is, is obviously had it passed down from mother, grandmpother and great grandmother. and It continues to run in his family unless he puts down that bible and stop bible bashing his bs to others.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#23249 Dec 12, 2013
#23245
So angry Ak, still praying that God will make Himself known to you during this time.
1. God created Adam first from the dust of the earth. At that point, there was no gender distinction.
2. God created Eve FROM Adam, and then reunited them in marriage. I would call that a reunion. Something a ss couple can never identify with. I simply note that Jesus quoted this passage in the context of marriage.
3. Every culture in human history has marriage from start to finish. You dispute that? I'll even go further. When the bonds between parents and child are fractured, the bonds between members of that society are fatally fractured, and the culture is destroyed. Give me an exception. Again, show me where history, the facts assert marriage.
Lastly, I will congratulate you if you can indeed document the above assertions, assumptions.
1. God created Adam first from the dust of the earth. At that point, there was no gender distinction.
2. God created Eve FROM Adam, and then reunited them in marriage. I would call that a reunion. Something a ss couple can never identify with. I simply note that Jesus quoted this passage in the context of marriage.
3. Every culture in human history has marriage from start to finish. You dispute that? I'll even go further. When the bonds between parents and child are fractured, the bonds between members of that society are fatally fractured, and the culture is destroyed. Give me an exception.
REPLY
1. So you say. Your personal interpretation is not acceptable documentation. Where in Genesis did it say that “ there was no gender distinction?”
2. Are you that dense that you don't know the difference between unite and reunite? Of course you would call that a reunion. You continue to use your own interpretation profaning the Word of God.
Matthew 19:9; legO de humin hoti hos an apolusE tEn gunaika autou ei mE epi porneia kai gamEsE allEn moichatai kai ho apolelumenEn gamEsas moichatai
19:9; I-AM-sayING YET to-YOU(p) that WHO EVER SHOULD-BE-FROM-LOOSING THE WOMAN OF-him IF NO ON PROSTITUTION AND SHOULD-BE-MARRYING other IS-committING-ADULTERY AND THE one-HAVING-been-FROM-LOOSED one-MARRYing IS-committING-ADULTERY
19:9; And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinea...
Genesis 2: 24; ol-kn iozb -aish ath – abi u u ath – am u u dbq b ashth u u eiu l bshr achd :
2: 24; on so he-is-leaving man >> mother-of him and he-clings in woman-of him and they-become to flesh one and they-beome to flesh one
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinea...
Genesis 2: 24;
Upon So he~ will~ Leave Man At
Father~ him and~ At Mother~ him and~
he~ did~ Adhere in~ Woman~ him and~
they~ did~ Exist to~ Flesh Unit
therefore a man will leave his father
and his mother and he will adhere with his woman and they will exist
a flesh unit,
Mechanical Translation of the Book of Genesis
The Hebrew text literally translated word for word.
Jeff A. Benner
Cont.->

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#23250 Dec 12, 2013
Continued:

Matthew 19:9; And I say unto you. Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, comitteth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinea ... Here again is the word representing marriage, "marrieth." Here, in the Greek Interlinear New Testament, the Greek word "gamEsE" {unable to type the Greek alphabet]. The root of this word, gamo lends much meaning to why the Greek word "gamEsE" is translated "SHOULD_BE_MARRYING" comes to light when one learns that "gamo" means "fuck" http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon (
&#947;&#945;&#956; &#974;
=
fuck, shag, screw
= gamo
gamo-, gam-,-gamy,-gamous +
(Greek: marriage, union; wedding; pertaining to sexual union) http://wordinfo.info/units/view/2788/page:4/i ...

It becomes quite evident that Matthew 19:9 means to say that intercourse establishes a marriage.

Now, KiMare, give me documentation that is what the Bible says.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#23251 Dec 12, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a sin when it involves priests and little boys.
Rosa, homosexuality is not pedophilia. Homosexuality is not what the NT was talking about. The Early Church Fathers (Didache) spoke of pedophilia not homosexuality. Every instance of what was spoken of has been misrepresented by the Church and Christianity.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#23252 Dec 12, 2013
Thats Right wrote:
<quoted text>
Homosexuality and pedophilia go hand in hand and they are both mental disorders and perversion.
Well, can't argue with a fools opinion.

If you want to erase this stigma of being a fool then present documentation regarding your opinions.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#23253 Dec 12, 2013
akopen wrote:
#23245
So angry Ak, still praying that God will make Himself known to you during this time.
1. God created Adam first from the dust of the earth. At that point, there was no gender distinction.
2. God created Eve FROM Adam, and then reunited them in marriage. I would call that a reunion. Something a ss couple can never identify with. I simply note that Jesus quoted this passage in the context of marriage.
3. Every culture in human history has marriage from start to finish. You dispute that? I'll even go further. When the bonds between parents and child are fractured, the bonds between members of that society are fatally fractured, and the culture is destroyed. Give me an exception. Again, show me where history, the facts assert marriage.
Lastly, I will congratulate you if you can indeed document the above assertions, assumptions.
1. God created Adam first from the dust of the earth. At that point, there was no gender distinction.
2. God created Eve FROM Adam, and then reunited them in marriage. I would call that a reunion. Something a ss couple can never identify with. I simply note that Jesus quoted this passage in the context of marriage.
3. Every culture in human history has marriage from start to finish. You dispute that? I'll even go further. When the bonds between parents and child are fractured, the bonds between members of that society are fatally fractured, and the culture is destroyed. Give me an exception.
REPLY
1. So you say. Your personal interpretation is not acceptable documentation. Where in Genesis did it say that “ there was no gender distinction?”
2. Are you that dense that you don't know the difference between unite and reunite? Of course you would call that a reunion. You continue to use your own interpretation profaning the Word of God.
Matthew 19:9; legO de humin hoti hos an apolusE tEn gunaika autou ei mE epi porneia kai gamEsE allEn moichatai kai ho apolelumenEn gamEsas moichatai
19:9; I-AM-sayING YET to-YOU(p) that WHO EVER SHOULD-BE-FROM-LOOSING THE WOMAN OF-him IF NO ON PROSTITUTION AND SHOULD-BE-MARRYING other IS-committING-ADULTERY AND THE one-HAVING-been-FROM-LOOSED one-MARRYing IS-committING-ADULTERY
19:9; And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinea...
Genesis 2: 24; ol-kn iozb -aish ath – abi u u ath – am u u dbq b ashth u u eiu l bshr achd :
2: 24; on so he-is-leaving man >> mother-of him and he-clings in woman-of him and they-become to flesh one and they-beome to flesh one
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinea...
Genesis 2: 24;
Upon So he~ will~ Leave Man At
Father~ him and~ At Mother~ him and~
he~ did~ Adhere in~ Woman~ him and~
they~ did~ Exist to~ Flesh Unit
therefore a man will leave his father
and his mother and he will adhere with his woman and they will exist
a flesh unit,
Mechanical Translation of the Book of Genesis
The Hebrew text literally translated word for word.
Jeff A. Benner
Cont.->
My documentation was from the original source.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#23254 Dec 12, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
My documentation was from the original source.
LOL!!!.... YOUR documentation was an expression of your own opinions.

The fact that you have attempted to skew the meanings of scripture to fit your own views is the real problem.

In Chess, the move is called a "skewer."

Two pieces (ie. your views[1] and scripture[2]) are lined up upon a diagonal or a squared column to simultaneously attack and overwhelm. The second piece in line backs up the first, providing authority to the direct threat of the first piece. You can see this in his persistent use of sardonic condescension. That is the self-congratulatory authority used to belittle any contrary defensive view.

Obviously, the two offending pieces must be in an uninterrupted direct line focused upon the objective or there is no authority inferred by the backing.

But, what you have done, Kimare, is to present your opinion and then you have interpreted the authority of the scriptural passage to mean what it does not say, in order to create the illusion of a direct, uninterrupted line of authoritative threat that backs your opinion.

In other words, your line of authority is not straight, direct or uninterrupted. You have claimed that it is. But, upon closer inspection, your own interpretation, rather than the scripture, is what backs your first premise.

No good. Your threat is a bluff and it will, in chess parlance, result in the loss of a key piece, putting you at a further disadvantage.

*****

There is a second problem with these kinds of scriptural threats.

That is, that they are most often taken out of the context of their temporal and cultural settings, which context is designed to resonate with the general comprehension evident at the moment of expression. In other words, St. Paul was not preaching Quantum Mechanics, per se. But, he WAS preaching the direct link between ritualistic addressing of the Holy Spirit and the life of the everyday disciple of Christ as reborn in the Spirit.
THAT linking is "Quantum Mechanical."

The result of not being willing to recognize the evident contextual restraints is, very often, that the point when made today does not take into account rational truth that has been revealed and accepted at a temporal and cultural setting after the original point has been shown to be deficient.

Jesus said, "I am the truth,..."

*If* we are to take Him at His Word, then truth, being what He is, MUST also be the modern realization - BECAUSE, by His own testimony and God's witness to this testimony, the newly revealed truth is always what He is. He is the Living, not the shell.

His own Ministry was a testimony to realization of "Truth revealed" which eventually causes the older comprehension, based upon the older form of authority, to be discarded.

It is a "rebirth." To Nicodemous, a representative of the previously comprehended authority, Jesus said, "You must be reborn in the Spirit."

It is a repetitive metamorphosis. Paul said, "I die daily."

We learn. And, in learning, we are freed from the hardened shell of the previous comprehension.

What Rev. Alan often does in his posts on this thread is to carefully, deftly, remove parts of the previously hardened shell. He reveals a new, brilliantly illuminated way of looking at the substance that we are.

What AK often does in his posts here is to show the value of the previous body as it grows into the new body of comprehension, proving that the application of truth is both expansive and built upon a core of principled authority.

What Kimare is doing is a twofold betting of his own authority on the parts of the shell that are being discarded and an attempt at remolding the hardened shell into the point of attention. This is the problem with institutionalized bigotry and hypocrisy. It is the vestige of an authority that, at one time, had a legitimate purpose, but later turned out to be incomplete.

Merry Christmas to All.

Rev. Ken

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#23255 Dec 12, 2013
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
Rosa, homosexuality is not pedophilia. Homosexuality is not what the NT was talking about. The Early Church Fathers (Didache) spoke of pedophilia not homosexuality. Every instance of what was spoken of has been misrepresented by the Church and Christianity.
I know that's true. The haters couldn't care less about the larger number of girls who get molested - mostly by men.
:-(

It doesn't suit their agenda.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#23256 Dec 12, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!!!.... YOUR documentation was an expression of your own opinions.
The fact that you have attempted to skew the meanings of scripture to fit your own views is the real problem.
In Chess, the move is called a "skewer."
Two pieces (ie. your views[1] and scripture[2]) are lined up upon a diagonal or a squared column to simultaneously attack and overwhelm. The second piece in line backs up the first, providing authority to the direct threat of the first piece. You can see this in his persistent use of sardonic condescension. That is the self-congratulatory authority used to belittle any contrary defensive view.
Obviously, the two offending pieces must be in an uninterrupted direct line focused upon the objective or there is no authority inferred by the backing.
But, what you have done, Kimare, is to present your opinion and then you have interpreted the authority of the scriptural passage to mean what it does not say, in order to create the illusion of a direct, uninterrupted line of authoritative threat that backs your opinion.
In other words, your line of authority is not straight, direct or uninterrupted. You have claimed that it is. But, upon closer inspection, your own interpretation, rather than the scripture, is what backs your first premise.
No good. Your threat is a bluff and it will, in chess parlance, result in the loss of a key piece, putting you at a further disadvantage.
*****
There is a second problem with these kinds of scriptural threats.
That is, that they are most often taken out of the context of their temporal and cultural settings, which context is designed to resonate with the general comprehension evident at the moment of expression. In other words, St. Paul was not preaching Quantum Mechanics, per se. But, he WAS preaching the direct link between ritualistic addressing of the Holy Spirit and the life of the everyday disciple of Christ as reborn in the Spirit.
THAT linking is "Quantum Mechanical."
The result of not being willing to recognize the evident contextual restraints is, very often, that the point when made today does not take into account rational truth that has been revealed and accepted at a temporal and cultural setting after the original point has been shown to be deficient.
Jesus said, "I am the truth,..."
*If* we are to take Him at His Word, then truth, being what He is, MUST also be the modern realization - BECAUSE, by His own testimony and God's witness to this testimony, the newly revealed truth is always what He is. He is the Living, not the shell.
His own Ministry was a testimony to realization of "Truth revealed" which eventually causes the older comprehension, based upon the older form of authority, to be discarded.
It is a "rebirth." To Nicodemous, a representative of the previously comprehended authority, Jesus said, "You must be reborn in the Spirit."
It is a repetitive metamorphosis. Paul said, "I die daily."
We learn. And, in learning, we are freed from the hardened shell of the previous comprehension.
What Rev. Alan often does in his posts on this thread is to carefully, deftly, remove parts of the previously hardened shell. He reveals a new, brilliantly illuminated way of looking at the substance that we are.
What AK often does in his posts here is to show the value of the previous body as it grows into the new body of comprehension, proving that the application of truth is both expansive and built upon a core of principled authority.
What Kimare is doing is a twofold betting of his own authority on the parts of the shell that are being discarded and an attempt at remolding the hardened shell into the point of attention. This is the problem with institutionalized bigotry and hypocrisy. It is the vestige of an authority that, at one time, had a legitimate purpose, but later turned out to be incomplete.
Merry Christmas to All.
Rev. Ken
This was a great response Rev.Ken

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#23257 Dec 12, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
I know that's true. The haters couldn't care less about the larger number of girls who get molested - mostly by men.
:-(
It doesn't suit their agenda.
You are right Rosa. The "Good Ole Boys Club."

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#23258 Dec 13, 2013
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right Rosa. The "Good Ole Boys Club."
You mean the large number of homosexual pedophiles who used the priesthood to take advantage of little boys?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#23259 Dec 13, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>You can but you will not win.
The Bible has many heroes who play a crucial role in the formulation of Biblical concepts and ideology. Jesus, Paul, Abraham, David and Peter are among the more prominent figures. Unfortunately, each of these individuals has serious deficiencies in his character and should not be depicted as models for our children to emulate. Peter is as good an example as any of one lacking in courage and integrity. All of the following acts, statements, and events in the New Testament show poor judgement associated with naming churches, cathedrals, basilicas, and so forth after him, and the absurdity of granting him sainthood:
•He denied Jesus three times and lied under oath in the process (Matt. 26:70, 72.74-75);
•he will be denied by Jesus in Heaven because he denied Jesus before men (Matt. 10:33);
•he falsely and deceptively stated he would never desert Jesus, although all others may (Matt. 26:33);
•he lied when he said he would stand behind Jesus to the end (Luke 22:33);
•he was called Satan by Jesus(Matt. 16:23);
•he admitted he was sinful (Luke 5:8); he drew a sword and violently cut off a man's ear (John 18:10);
•he was rebuked by Jesus for having little faith (Matt. 14:31) and intruding into Jesus' affairs (John 21:21-22);
•he rebuked Jesus and accused him of making a false statement (Matt.16:22);
•he repeatedly failed to stay awake at the Garden of Gethsemane when asked to so by Jesus (Matt. 26:40-45);
•he wanted to know what was in it for him if he followed Christ (Matt. 19:27);
•he acted afraid and cowardly by refusing to eat with converted Christian gentiles because Jewish legalists were approaching and would object (Gal. 2:11-12);
•he, along with other apostles, felt the report of the Resurrection by the women was an idle tale (Luke 24:10-12);
•he entered Samaritan villages (Acts 8:25) in direct defiance of Jesus' commands (Matt. 10:5);
•he alleged Lot was righteous (2 Peter 2:7-8) despite the fact that Lot offered his virgin daughters to a crowd (Gen. 19:8), was wicked like the others, and did not deserve to be saved from Sodom and Gomorrah's destruction;
•after publicly accusing Ananias before the entire community and frightening him to death, he repeated the act with Ananias' wife (Acts 5:1-10) in contradiction of Jesus' admonitions to show concern for the sensibilities of others (Matt. 5:7. 39);
•he deceptively asked Jesus who was going to betray him (John 21:20), yet was present when Jesus exposed his future betrayer at the Last Supper (Matt. 26:25) and was present when Judas led the soldiers to arrest Jesus (John 18:3-5, 10);
•he asked for signs to be given to his generation (Acts 4:29-30) in opposition to what Jesus said would be done (Mark 8:12);
•he unjustly accused Pontius Pilate of being responsible for Jesus' fate (Acts 4:26-27) when Pilate clearly said he was innocent and did not want to be associated with the taking of "this just person" (Matt. 27:24);
•he said Jesus was killed and then hanged on a tree (Acts 5:30); whereas, he was crucified on a cross before he died (Matt. 27:40, 46);
•and he said God made Jesus both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36) which would mean he was neither at one time.
Later issues of BE will discuss the accuracy of additional statements by Peter.
Despite this deplorable record, Peter is considered to be a "saint" by many, and one branch of Christendom has even gone so far as to use Matt. 16:18-19 to designate him as first Pope. Of all the Apostles, Peter was the most important; yet he often demonstrated a sorrowful lack of honor, truthfulness and integrity. One can only pity any institution having him as a founding father.
It's half of "christendom"s core problem, the other being Saul.

(N.B. 2 Peter is pseudepigrapha and apocryphal see--> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_th... <--)

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#23260 Dec 13, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm old enough, won't see 30 again.
Each to their own I say. I don't mind spag bol, but I think Puttanesca is much nicer when I'm making pasta.
(Do you know the meaning of "putanesca"?) lol

In Milan a young dyke named Orsini
Served her lesbian friend a martini
Then suggestively said
"Let's have pasta in bed"
Which of course meant
Cunnilinguini

Playboy Jokes Page (1968)

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#23261 Dec 13, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
What the Catholic Church considers is irrelevant.
Even when both you and it agree on homosexuality?

BTW, according to the most recent John Jay report, of the Catholic clerics who sexually abuse their own congregations, more than 90% of those priests chose to abuse a member of the same sex.
bobby g

New Braunfels, TX

#23262 Dec 13, 2013
when i was a teenager I had a priest do me in the confessional. Not just once but a whole lot of times, every Friday after school. He finally was reassigned to some place else but it was fun while it lasted.

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#23263 Dec 13, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
(Do you know the meaning of "putanesca"?) lol
In Milan a young dyke named Orsini
Served her lesbian friend a martini
Then suggestively said
"Let's have pasta in bed"
Which of course meant
Cunnilinguini
Playboy Jokes Page (1968)
Yes I did, actually. People always teach you the best words, in a new language.
:D

Thanks for the laugh.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#23264 Dec 13, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean the large number of homosexual pedophiles who used the priesthood to take advantage of little boys?
I believe my comment was directed to Rosa's comment that men molest women.

As for your comment about homosexual pedophiles, it is an oxymoron; a contradiction of terms.

Homosexuals are not interested in children. Pedophiles are.

A pedophile can be an adult man molesting children or an adult woman in molesting children.

The fact that the Church has had pedophile priests since the beginning of Church history does not presume that these priests were homosexual. You would do well to read up on the history of the Church. Like that is going to happen! You are now speaking about the one subject of the book I am writing. Note that I have put a lot of research into this subject. Your previous opinions about Eunuchs plays well in my research. The only difference is that your opinions are skewed.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#23265 Dec 13, 2013
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Even when both you and it agree on homosexuality?
BTW, according to the most recent John Jay report, of the Catholic clerics who sexually abuse their own congregations, more than 90% of those priests chose to abuse a member of the same sex.
Eunuchs were a powerful enough to change Roman law and that same force was very instrumental in the Early Church. Eunuchs in the Church took (kidnapped) kids off the streets and brought them into the Church, feeding them, educating them and, sexually molesting them. Now, this is an oversimplification of what went on but it is still going on today. What did happen was the perpetuation of priests over the centuries. Young boys that were conditioned to become priests and they in turn sought after boys, boys that once they reached puberty were no longer of interest to pedophile priests. The pedophile priests simply found another pre-adolescent boy to groom into the priesthood.

Eusebius, an Early Church Father, was also a Eunuch. Eunuchs powerful position within the Church could only be maintained by bringing in young boys and training and molesting them. These young boys grew up becoming priests and molesting more boys that also became priests. Hence, 2000 years of the Church looking the other way and, just as you put pedophilia and homosexuality together the Church covers up pedophilia by calling it homosexuality. Very convenient for the Church.

Reference:

Vows of Silence
The Abuse of Power in the Papacy of John Paul II

The Manly Eunuch
Masculinity, Gender Ambiguity, and Christian Ideology in Late Antiquity

Sex, Priests, and Secret Codes
The Catholic Church's 2000-Year Paper trail of Sexual Abuse

Sodomy
The Invention of Sodomy in Christian Theology

Book of Gomorrah
An Eleventh-Century Treatise against Clerical Homosexual Practices

The History of the Church, Eusebius

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#23266 Dec 13, 2013
Legion Of Christ Reform? Future Of Order Uncertain Under Pope Francis

To be sure, some progress has been made during the past three years of Vatican receivership: The order rewrote its constitutions, released statistics about sex abuse cases, and a well-respected priest recently begged forgiveness from Maciel's victims for how he and the Legion ignored and defamed them. But if recent elections in the Legion's consecrated lay branches are any indication, the membership itself has voted for the status quo.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/13/legi...

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