Homosexuality and the Bible

Homosexuality and the Bible

There are 33251 comments on the www.smh.com.au story from Aug 15, 2011, titled Homosexuality and the Bible. In it, www.smh.com.au reports that:

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.smh.com.au.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#23067 Dec 5, 2013
KiMare wrote:
When a male reaches adulthood, he leave his parents and finds a wife.
Gay males don't find a wife, unless they are as messed up in the head as you are, they go find a boy friend. You are really one confused reprobate KiMare.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#23068 Dec 5, 2013
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
Matthew 19:4-6 (NJB)
He answered,‘Have you not read that the Creator from the beginning made them male and female
Why do you quote these silly stories from the worlds most contradictory book KiMare?

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#23069 Dec 5, 2013
KiMare wrote:
So then, what God has united, human beings must not divide.
According to enrichment journal on the divorce rate in America:

The divorce rate in America for first marriage is 41%
The divorce rate in America for second marriage is 60%
The divorce rate in America for third marriage is 73%

Clearly KiMare you are not alone in not listening to God. It sure looks like one hell of a lot of Americans are "dividing."

Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience.

Ha ha ha ha ha KiMare. The family that prays together gets divorced.

George Barna, president and founder of Barna Research Group, commented:

"While it may be alarming to discover that born again Christians are more likely than others to experience a divorce, that pattern has been in place for quite some time. Even more disturbing, perhaps, is that when those individuals experience a divorce many of them feel their community of faith provides rejection rather than support and healing. But the research also raises questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families. The ultimate responsibility for a marriage belongs to the husband and wife, but the high incidence of divorce within the Christian community challenges the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriages."

Barna report: Variation in divorce rates among Christian faith groups:
Denomination (in order of decreasing divorce rate)

% who have been divorced
Non-denominational ** 34%
Baptists 29%
Mainline Protestants 25%
Mormons 24%
Catholics 21%
Lutherans 21%

** Barna uses the term "non-denominational" to refer to Evangelical Christian congregations that are not affiliated with a specific denomination. The vast majority are fundamentalist in their theological beliefs.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#23070 Dec 5, 2013
KiMare wrote:
I simply note that you are condemned because you promote dividing what God has joined, as Jesus asserts.
Why is this confusing to you?
I simple quote Bible verses showing that you are condemned because you promote ignoring clear precise and direct commands to sell all that you own and give the money to the poor as Jesus asserts.

Why is this confusing to you?

"...none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up everything he has" Luke 14:33
"If you want to be perfect, go and sell all you have and give the money to the poor and you will have riches in heaven" Matt. 19:21
"Sell your possessions and give alms" Luke 12:33
"But give what is in your cups and plates to the poor, and everything will be clean for you" Luke 11:41
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt,.... But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven.... for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" Matt. 6:19-21
"How hardly shall they that have riches enter to the kingdom of God" Mark 10:23
"Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matt. 19:23-24
A certain ruler told Jesus that he had obeyed all the commandments from his youth up. But, Jesus said, "Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me" Luke 18:22, Mark 10:21

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#23071 Dec 5, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
*****
And your point is, what?
That God recognizes the sacredness of the intimate bond of trust and companionship between two Human Beings?
And then also, that Human Beings must not step into the position of being the dividers of that sacred, intimate bond of trust and companionship?
Because why?
*****
In your post above, you have taken the quote out of context.
The immediately preceding verse is as follows:
(Matthew 19:3) Some Pharisees came to him, and to test him they asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause?"
The immediately succeeding verse is as follows:
(19:7) They said to him, "Why then did Moses command us to give a certificate of dismissal and to divorce her?"
(:8) He said to them, "It was because you were so hard-hearted ..."
Jesus finishes the answer with a statement about adultery.
*****
Back to your reasoning for providing the post above.
Perhaps I and some others who have read your post do not understand the purpose of your post. Or, maybe I do understand why you have presented this quote, but would like to have others understand your reasoning, also.
So, what is your point? Please explain.
Rev. Ken
Specific questions are here for you to answer.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#23072 Dec 5, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
KiMare's point is that while he refuses to obey clear and direct biblical commands he wants you to obey and take seriously a few select verses he likes to hold over people as if the Bible were an authority. He knows he has no credibility so he holds the Bible up to justify his bigotry and simple-mindedness.
His con is that people,[everyone but him] should believe in, obey and follow the Bible.
Atheists are not destroying Chirst-insanity it is the KiMares of the world who are destroying it. And destroying it they are!!!
If KiMare needs to explain anything it is why he does not have to take the Bible seriously nor believe a word of it, but instead try to shove it down the throats of normal people.
Come on KiMare, why do you let yourself off the hook in obeying direct biblical commands while at the same time you insist the rest of have to obey them. You are as stupid, inconsistent and simple-minded as is David Moore our resident arch-deviant from Pekin Il.
There is a good parable for the behavior that you describe.

Interesting that it can be found in the chapter of Matthew (Ch. 18) immediately preceding Kimare's favorite scriptural passage in Ch. 19; the one that Kimare cannot leave alone, yet also cannot admit to comprehend.

Matthew 18:23

Do I sin against Kimare? Perhaps. If I do, I humbly ask forgiveness, both from my Lord and also from Kimare, my fellow human being. I am by no measure, anywhere close to being a perfect teacher or servant as the Lord, Jesus, would have me be.

But, this much I know to be true: the child grows through adolescence, coming into and establishing sexual maturity through a personal, natural process. This occurs, defining the sexuality of the individual, whether heterosexual or homosexual or somewhere in between, without having to be taught or led or hedged one way or another. As recorded in scripture, nowhere in the child's development process, regardless of innate sexual orientation, does Jesus find cause to condemn this unfolding process or the mature result in the person.

In fact, as recorded in more than one place in scripture, Jesus specifically directs His disciples - and everyone who reads His words - to clear the path and encourage the children (and their guiding parents) to come to Him.

Jesus follows this specific instruction with a warning. That is, Do Not place obstacles - surely to include psychological fears and unavoidably labelled guilt - upon the child which would serve to keep the child away. YOU WILL BE held accountable.

Consider how the deeply misguided attitude of impressed and inescapable guilt, rejection and isolation, has caused so many to commit suicide. This is no joke.

*****

Does Kimare find reason to condemn me?

He says he doesn't. Instead, he says that I "stand convicted," which is to say condemned, by the "Word of God" because of what is written, not by or because of his own interpretation of that writing.

This is the same argument that Pilate used.

Pilate said, "I do not condemn you." and "This man is innocent." Then, he washes his hands and says "You are convicted," turning Jesus over to be scourged, nailed to a post and left to die.

Now, I am not being crucified here. I am not even complaining about how another might regard me or try to use his word against me.
But, if the year was A.D. 114 instead of A.D. 2014, you can bet your sweet bippy that if Kimare were sitting on Pilate's seat, my immediate future might not look so bright as it actually is.

The behavior that you point out, Rev. Alan, as you do comprehend, is the behavior of a person who is "working" iniquity.

Once a person thinks he or she knows what "it is all about," it is not easy to get off of the seat of judgment. In fact, the damn thing gets rather comfy and it is just real hard to get up from.

But, it can be done. And, it has to be done, every day;
going deeper to where we have not yet gone.

Rev. Ken

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#23073 Dec 5, 2013
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
Matthew 19:4-6 (NJB)
He answered,‘Have you not read that the Creator from the beginning made them male and female
5 and that he said: This is why a man leaves his father and mother and becomes attached to his wife, and the two become one flesh?
6 They are no longer two, therefore, but one flesh. So then, what God has united, human beings must not divide.'
<quoted text>
I'm not surprised you are confused by a simple passage. I make no point, the passage makes the point.
1. God made male and female.
2. Please pay particular attention to this simple truth; When a male reaches adulthood, he leave his parents and finds a wife.
3. He then emphasizes this; The the male and female become one.
4. What God has put together (a male and female in marriage), let no one divide.
You stand condemned by God's Word.
Still confused?
<quoted text>
I simply paraphrased the points the passage makes.
If you think I did so incorrectly, please paraphrase as simply as I did mine.
I simply note that you are condemned because you promote dividing what God has joined, as Jesus asserts.
Why is this confusing to you?
Excuse me. You noted what?

The passage in question is about divorce.

I'm not promoting divorce, dividing what God has joined. I am promoting marriage.

Why is this confusing to YOU?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#23075 Dec 5, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuse me. You noted what?
The passage in question is about divorce.
I'm not promoting divorce, dividing what God has joined. I am promoting marriage.
Why is this confusing to YOU?
Jesus addressed the question of divorce by reaffirming what God intended in marriage. You know that, but are trying to divert because it condemns your view.

I understand fully what you are attempting. You are promoting a perversion of marriage that is in direct conflict with what Jesus said, that is why you are unable to directly counter the outline I presented.

The irony is, the most specific passage on marriage, quoted three times in Scripture, is impossible to use at a supposed gay ceremony.

“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

Clitty

#23076 Dec 5, 2013
75% of divorced baptists think gay marriage is sin.

“Filia Spartacus”

Since: Jun 13

Libertas

#23077 Dec 5, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
North is the key word this morning. We were enjoying temps in the 80's and then this stupid storm and the weather icon says it is 19F outside while my thermometers says it is 28F. We turned off all our outside water and drained the pipes. We cut off our solar water heater and drained it. I turned on the furnace. Earlier we went out and covered all the avocado and citrus trees. Probably all the oranges will be damaged and they were so sweet this year.
The loquat was loaded with ripening fruit and it is probably all damaged. Loquats make the most delicious cherry pies.
As you guys are ready for the summer solstice we are suffering the winter solstice. My friends in Michigan told me they would be happy if the temps rose above 0F.
Not rubbing it in...but it's a beautiful summer's day today. Not too hot, a nice 23 degrees Celsius. That's after being terribly windy the last couple of days.

I'm going out now to enjoy it.
:D

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#23078 Dec 5, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus addressed the question of divorce by reaffirming what God intended in marriage. You know that, but are trying to divert because it condemns your view.
I understand fully what you are attempting. You are promoting a perversion of marriage that is in direct conflict with what Jesus said, that is why you are unable to directly counter the outline I presented.
The irony is, the most specific passage on marriage, quoted three times in Scripture, is impossible to use at a supposed gay ceremony.
Then you should never have married. Anyone can see that you are not a real man. You secretly wish to be Ann Margaret but don'[t have the guts to be honest about it.

“Filia Spartacus”

Since: Jun 13

Libertas

#23079 Dec 5, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you should never have married. Anyone can see that you are not a real man. You secretly wish to be Ann Margaret but don'[t have the guts to be honest about it.
The best surgeons in the world could NEVER achieve that. It'll never be anything but an ugly bloke.
:D

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#23080 Dec 6, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
The best surgeons in the world could NEVER achieve that. It'll never be anything but an ugly bloke.
:D
Correction: A self-hating ugly bloke in an impostor marriage.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#23081 Dec 6, 2013
Dusty Mangina wrote:
75% of divorced baptists think gay marriage is sin.
Most like to spend their time looking into the sins of others.

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#23082 Dec 6, 2013

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#23083 Dec 6, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/2013-gay -milestones-182348539.html?vp= 1
It was a very good year!
Yes it was.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#23084 Dec 6, 2013
The lesbian waitress who claimed she received an anti-gay note in lieu of a tip promised to donate the subsequent gratuities that poured in to the Wounded Warrior Project — but the veterans organization reportedly can’t verify it had received any donations from Dayna Morales.

Morales, a 22-year-old former Marine, claimed last month that a family of four who racked up a $93.55 bill at the Gallop Asian Bistro in Branchburg, N.J., left her no tip, only a note saying they couldn’t leave any extra cash for her service because they “do not agree with your lifestyle.”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/06/wounded-...

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#23085 Dec 6, 2013
cory71 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm curious, is this a source of your "true statement" and "reptilian heritage"?
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunn ...
You asked this question before in post #23042.

I didn't consider it a serious question then, anymore than I do now.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#23087 Dec 6, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus addressed the question of divorce by reaffirming what God intended in marriage. You know that, but are trying to divert because it condemns your view.
I understand fully what you are attempting. You are promoting a perversion of marriage that is in direct conflict with what Jesus said, that is why you are unable to directly counter the outline I presented.
The irony is, the most specific passage on marriage, quoted three times in Scripture, is impossible to use at a supposed gay ceremony.
OK.

Since the question posed by the Pharisees specifically asked if a man could divorce his wife, how do YOU get from there to the response that Jesus' reply forbids a same-sex marriage?

You can't. He never said anything of the sort, as reported in scripture.

Period. End of statement. Irrefutable.

All you have left is your own extensions and interpretations of the concepts presented. These you brazenly make, as if they are the very words of Jesus,... which they are not.

Try as you might, you cannot make this questioning and the answering discussion of Marriage and Divorce, in Matthew 19, into a condemnation of same-sex marriage. It is simply not part of the discussion.

However,...

When His disciples respond by saying that a man should never get married (inferring that the spiritual and contractual obligations of marriage are nearly impossible to comply with), Jesus brings up a couple of very interesting points.

First, He gives some conditions under which a person can remarry (not to mention that adultery is later shown to be forgivable).

Second, He acknowledges that not being married at all is acceptable.

Third, He acknowledges that there are persons who are neither "classically" [my emphasis] male or female. The scripture gives the Greek word, translated from the Aryan, to be eunuch.

But, "eunuch" is generally defined as "sexless." That is, not interested in having sex. Homosexuality, on the other hand, is a sexual orientation very much interested in having sex.

So, to be brutally honest about the scripture here, Matthew 19, nothing is reported as having been said by Jesus which either defines homosexuality as any kind of sin or either condemns or approves of same-sex relationship.

Sorry, Mr. Kimare.

It is my sincere hope that you will be able to come to a very necessary change of heart and mind; A change that makes room for a group of very deserving people. A change that I believe Jesus has made and asks you and me to make, also.

... What you are insisting upon as being clearly defined in this series of chapter and verse, is simply your own imagination and desire for what YOU wish to hang onto, as previously, traditionally endorsed, institutionalized hypocrisy and bigotry. In that sense, it is no different from scriptural justification for the institution of human slavery.

Time is up. No good, anymore.

In fact, if logic and the reality of inborn homosexuality are to be acknowledged - and these do make the foundation for cultural-moral-social-spiritua l-lawful acknowledgment of the same-sex pair-bond, as created and approved by God - then this particular section of scripture and the Teachings of Jesus must be interpreted to endorse the extension of the Sacrament of Marriage to include same-sex marriage.

"Suffer the little children to come unto me,...."

... Your outline, as presented, duly countered and sent, irretrievably, to the round file via the Shredder of Jesus Christ.

Oh, and as for the wording, we'll figure it out.
As above, so below.

Rev. Ken
A priest and disciple of the Lord, Christ Jesus.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#23088 Dec 6, 2013
KiMare wrote:
The lesbian waitress who claimed she received an anti-gay note in lieu of a tip promised to donate the subsequent gratuities that poured in to the Wounded Warrior Project — but the veterans organization reportedly can’t verify it had received any donations from Dayna Morales.
Morales, a 22-year-old former Marine, claimed last month that a family of four who racked up a $93.55 bill at the Gallop Asian Bistro in Branchburg, N.J., left her no tip, only a note saying they couldn’t leave any extra cash for her service because they “do not agree with your lifestyle.”
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/06/wounded-...
You claim to be lesbian.

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