Homosexuality and the Bible

Homosexuality and the Bible

There are 36053 comments on the www.smh.com.au story from Aug 15, 2011, titled Homosexuality and the Bible. In it, www.smh.com.au reports that:

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.smh.com.au.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#22647 Nov 23, 2013
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
There you go again, misrepresenting what Genesis 19 really said. Do I have to do all the work for you?
Hebrew (kl = all-of)(e om = the people) translated, "all the people from every quarter."
So much for your, "bunch of men trying to rape visiting men.
Oh ya, "visiting men" were God's messengers. Angels. "Strange flesh." Reference Genesis 6. Also referred to as "alien flesh."
*[7] Practiced unnatural vice: literally,“went after alien flesh.” This example derives from Gn 19:1–25, especially 4–11, when the townsmen of Sodom violated both hospitality and morality by demanding that Lot’s two visitors (really messengers of Yahweh) be handed over to them so that they could abuse them sexually. Unnatural vice: this refers to the desire for intimacies by human beings with angels (the reverse of the example in Jude 6). Sodom (whence “sodomy”) and Gomorrah became proverbial as object lessons for God’s punishment on sin (Is 1:9; Jer 50:40; Am 4:11; Mt 10:15; 2 Pt 2:6).
http://www.usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm...
AK, stay off the gay twirl web sites! It's making you silly stupid!

Genesis 19:6-8 (NASB)
But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him,
7 and said, "Please, my BROTHERS, do not act wickedly.
8 "Now behold, I have two daughters who have not had relations with MAN; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these MEN, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof."

They had no knowledge that these were two angels. Moreover, Lot tried to change their orientation.

You are suggesting that just the women of Sodom were going to rape two men...

Moreover, how often is there a danger of sex with angels?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#22648 Nov 23, 2013
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
What is it with you. I was listing references regarding Jude. Go back to school and learn how to read.
And you shifted to those from what Jude said.

It is not either/or. How do you integrate the passages together?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#22649 Nov 23, 2013
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
Your false prophesy.
cop-out

lides

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#22650 Nov 23, 2013
KiMare wrote:
Oh please, what wasn't true?
Anything you have ever said. The reality is that you aren't as christian as you purport to be, or your would lead a better life rather than condemn others for their sexuality.

How does it feel to be a bigoted hypocrite?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#22651 Nov 23, 2013
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
Anything you have ever said. The reality is that you aren't as christian as you purport to be, or your would lead a better life rather than condemn others for their sexuality.
How does it feel to be a bigoted hypocrite?
You have a bitter spirit.

“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

Clitty

#22652 Nov 23, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You have a bitter spirit.
You have bitter heart.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#22653 Nov 23, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You get confused easily.
A bunch of men trying to rape visiting men sure looks like pretty inhospitable homosexuality...
Strange flesh sure fits the perversion of design, don't you think? Or did you have something else in mind?
I didn't say Jude spoke of the medical facts of anal sex.
God is truth. I think I came pretty close...
You mean pretty close, like in horseshoes and hand grenades?

Sorry. Your idea of "pretty close" is all relative.

Truth, as you put it, is then relative!?!

That is how Pilate saw it.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#22654 Nov 23, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
AK, stay off the gay twirl web sites! It's making you silly stupid!
Genesis 19:6-8 (NASB)
But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him,
7 and said, "Please, my BROTHERS, do not act wickedly.
8 "Now behold, I have two daughters who have not had relations with MAN; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these MEN, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof."
They had no knowledge that these were two angels. Moreover, Lot tried to change their orientation.
You are suggesting that just the women of Sodom were going to rape two men...
Moreover, how often is there a danger of sex with angels?
Like I said, KiMare, go back and learn how to read, better yet comprehend.

"*[7] Practiced unnatural vice: literally,“went after alien flesh.” This example derives from Gn 19:1–25, especially 4–11, when the townsmen of Sodom violated both hospitality and morality by demanding that Lot’s two visitors (really messengers of Yahweh) be handed over to them so that they could abuse them sexually. Unnatural vice: this refers to the desire for intimacies by human beings with angels (the reverse of the example in Jude 6). Sodom (whence “sodomy”) and Gomorrah became proverbial as object lessons for God’s punishment on sin (Is 1:9; Jer 50:40; Am 4:11; Mt 10:15; 2 Pt 2:6)." http://www.usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm...

"Unnatural vice: this refers to the desire for intimacies by human beings with angels ... "

What was unnatural was sex with angels. What was abusive was rape.

The fact that angels, supposedly are genderless, would lend you to think that this is a homosexual rape, is a long stretch of what the passage says. Even if angels were not genderless, and they were male, the whole town was there and every instance of the phrase, "to know" refers to heterosexual sex except 10 passages, out of almost 1000 passages. In the case of Genesis, "all the people" would include, men, women, old and young and the purpose of "getting to know" would be to produce offspring that was super human. See Genesis 6.

Victorious armies often violated the losing soldiers to demean them. The crime then, is treating a man like a woman. Men were masters of women; as in women were the property of men. Baal, from where we get the word husband, is "the oldest stock of the Semite vocabulary and primarily means "lord", "owner". Hence, the owner of a woman becomes the husband in today's vernacular. It is an old structure of a ancient society that persist to this day. It is a structure that seemingly gives men the right to beat their wives. And it gives us this word, husband.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#22655 Nov 23, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
And you shifted to those from what Jude said.
It is not either/or. How do you integrate the passages together?
Great question for one that has never been taught how to read the Bible.

The answer is that biblical scholars have compared what one passage says to what other passages say and they come up with references to those other passages. Those other passages then lend to the context that may be obscure with a literal reading. One begins to define what the author meant by using the references to clarify the passages meaning. Note that this guards against YOU personally, arbitrarily deciding a passages message.

Try it sometime. The crack in your glass house will get larger.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#22656 Nov 23, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean pretty close, like in horseshoes and hand grenades?
Sorry. Your idea of "pretty close" is all relative.
Truth, as you put it, is then relative!?!
That is how Pilate saw it.
The Pilate truth is all yours rev...

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#22657 Nov 23, 2013
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
Great question for one that has never been taught how to read the Bible.
The answer is that biblical scholars have compared what one passage says to what other passages say and they come up with references to those other passages. Those other passages then lend to the context that may be obscure with a literal reading. One begins to define what the author meant by using the references to clarify the passages meaning. Note that this guards against YOU personally, arbitrarily deciding a passages message.
Try it sometime. The crack in your glass house will get larger.
You get so caught up other sources, you lose track of what you are trying to understand. That ends up making you vulnerable to embarrassing ambushes like the one you just endured regarding Genesis.

Now you did it again with Jude.

Jude 1:7 (NASB)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah AND THE CITIES AROUND THEM, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

IF your explanation were true, it would only apply to Sodom and Gomorrah, not to other cities the angels never went to.

Smile.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#22658 Nov 23, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You get so caught up other sources, you lose track of what you are trying to understand. That ends up making you vulnerable to embarrassing ambushes like the one you just endured regarding Genesis.
Now you did it again with Jude.
Jude 1:7 (NASB)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah AND THE CITIES AROUND THEM, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
IF your explanation were true, it would only apply to Sodom and Gomorrah, not to other cities the angels never went to.
Smile.
Look, KiMare, you repeatedly make observations, interpretations and never document what you say.

I'm suppose to believe what you think, believe is the absolute truth. What you believe is hardly any truth but your own.

Careful, the moment that you cannot deny what I say is the moment your glass house shatters.

I'm sure others see this too.
Merv the Perv

Sydney, Australia

#22659 Nov 23, 2013
KimareramiK wrote:
No God, no peas.
Know God, know peas.
Ahh, the god of peas!

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#22660 Nov 23, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
One of great weaknesses of the Bible lies in the fact that it contains tangible mechanisms by which to refute its truthfulness. Within it pages are verses which can be used to test the book's validity. They can be generally grouped under two broad headings--those involving tremendous powers given to believers and those involving powers attendant to prayer and requests. The most prominent verses within the first category are Mark 16:17-18, "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them: they shall lays hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Many true believers have handled deadly snakes and drunk deadly poisons only to find the Bible is both erroneous and dangerous. Courts in Illinois, Tennessee, and elsewhere have repeatedly stopped practices of this nature because of the treat to life. Ask believers to drink poison or handle deadly snakes and one will quickly realize the extent to which even they do not take the book seriously. Mark 16:17-18 clearly states what they can do if they believe. Put them to the test, however, and you will witness a lot of rationalizing.
Isn't it interesting, Rev. Alan,

... that the very obvious weaknesses, that you so correctly and diligently bring to light, turn out to be the actual strength to the compendium of writings that the Fundamentalist so dearly defends as incontrovertible Authority? Yet, they cannot abide with this simple fact.

Their "truth" is based upon the failure of a finite expression.

The weakness is in the conflict. The strength is in the acknowledgment of the conflict!

The answer (at least in part) is to embrace and go directly into and through the conflict, submitting to the fact that it exists between our understanding of ourselves and "God's" comprehension of what is understood to be what we may be able to become.

Even the Best of Teachers knows to leave room for improvement.

'When the Adversary had finished every test, he departed from him until an opportune time.'

"If thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of Light."

"Why callest me good? There is none good, but one, that is, God."

'I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.'

Nameless. Ineffable. Beyond the beyond. A concept of comprehension and consciousness that can neither be comprehended or realized, yet in touching, He, Her, Them, It, our Parent is capable of being touched.

Still, we would like to have it in our own control, stuffed sideways into a book, so that it can be pulled out and weaponized in any preferable form on a moment's notice, just like Ali Baba's Djinn and used to advance our perception of relative position, one to another.

If it has an endless sense of humor, care and a dignity in Being, as it must have, to be able to put up with us and other species that share a sort of intelligent likeness with us, it must also have a sense of sorrow, grief and destruction beyond any point of comprehending tolerance that we may think we can face.

A point of infinitely loving awareness that we must find ultimately undeniable, and, An unavoidable point of bitterness and disintegration that no one dares to taste.

"Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me; ..."

"Father, I desire that those also, whom you have given me may be with me where I am,..."

Rev. Ken

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#22661 Nov 23, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You get so caught up other sources, you lose track of what you are trying to understand. That ends up making you vulnerable to embarrassing ambushes like the one you just endured regarding Genesis.
Now you did it again with Jude.
Jude 1:7 (NASB)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah AND THE CITIES AROUND THEM, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
IF your explanation were true, it would only apply to Sodom and Gomorrah, not to other cities the angels never went to.
Smile.
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
Look, KiMare, you repeatedly make observations, interpretations and never document what you say.
I'm suppose to believe what you think, believe is the absolute truth. What you believe is hardly any truth but your own.
Careful, the moment that you cannot deny what I say is the moment your glass house shatters.
I'm sure others see this too.
Ak, your documentation doesn't fit the passage. Perhaps you could choose one that does, so it makes sense?

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#22662 Nov 23, 2013
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You get so caught up other sources, you lose track of what you are trying to understand. That ends up making you vulnerable to embarrassing ambushes like the one you just endured regarding Genesis.
Now you did it again with Jude.
Jude 1:7 (NASB)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah AND THE CITIES AROUND THEM, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
IF your explanation were true, it would only apply to Sodom and Gomorrah, not to other cities the angels never went to.
Smile.
<quoted text>
Ak, your documentation doesn't fit the passage. Perhaps you could choose one that does, so it makes sense?
LOL!

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#22663 Nov 24, 2013
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!
LOL yourself.

You claim the strange flesh was the angels that went to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Jude 7 connects the practice also to the cities around Sodom and Gomorrah.

Whats up prof?

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#22664 Nov 24, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Well Ak, I'm not Catholic. I just wonder what YOU think the passage is saying? I mean, after all your documentation and stuff, how does it apply to us today? In context (with your documentation, of course).
Smile.
You miss the point entirely KiMare. If there was a God and it had written a book, any normal person would expect the book to be an objective work of art and not the contradictory, inconsistent mess we have today that no two people can agree on what it means.

The subjectivity of Christians is proof that the Christian religion is a hoax; that the Christian, Bible writing God does not exist.

You are one of the least objective of all the topix trolls.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#22665 Nov 24, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You get confused easily.
pot/kettle

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#22666 Nov 24, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
God is truth.
If there was a God, if there was; but you do not have God, you have the Bible, the world's most contradictory, inconsistent and unscientific book ever to exist.

Rom.3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."
1Kgs. 8:46 "...for there is no man that sinneth not,...."
Prov.20:9 "Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?"
Eccl. 7:23 "For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not."
Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."
Rom. 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."
(Also 1 John 1:8 & 10, Rom. 3:12, 5:12, Gal. 3:22)

Versus

Gen. 6:9 "Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."
Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Job 1:8 "...my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?" (Job 2:3)
Gen. 7:1 "And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation."
Luke 1:5-6 "In the days of Herod, the king of Judaea,there was a priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abia: andhe had a wife of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.(RSV)

The only way you can discuss the Bible with a straight face is to ignore all the contradictions and continue to pretend they do not exist. They do exist and you have been deceived:

GOD DECEIVES:
"O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived...." (Jer. 20:7).
"if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel" (Ezek. 14:9).
"Ah, Lord God! Surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reaches unto the soul" (Jer. 4:10).
"...God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thess. 2:9-12).

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