Gay couples, and wedding industry, await Supreme Court ruling on Proposition 8

There are 20 comments on the Santa Cruz Sentinel story from Dec 1, 2012, titled Gay couples, and wedding industry, await Supreme Court ruling on Proposition 8. In it, Santa Cruz Sentinel reports that:

They met and fell in love two months after California voters approved Proposition 8, the referendum banning same-sex marriage, so Megan Sainsbury and Katie Kinder knew from the beginning that their shared dream of a big wedding -- brides in gorgeous white wedding dresses, declared by an ordained minister to be "wife and wife" -- would require them ... (more)

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Santa Cruz Sentinel.

Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

#1 Dec 1, 2012
To be honest, I really don't give a shit about the wedding industry. If anyone has trivialized the institution of marriage, it is not GLBT people, it is THEM!

In the olden days, wedding receptions consisted of people gathering at the home of the bride's parents for coffee and wedding cake. Why couldn't people just leave it at that?(Perhaps I might allow an exception in my opinion for those of South Asian origin, where long-time tradition does involve elaborate feasting.)

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#2 Dec 1, 2012
And wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait........

They should have just put it on the ballot in 2012 like Maine did.

Maybe by 2016 they'll decide they're tired of waiting for the SCOTUS to act and will go for another referendum vote.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#3 Dec 1, 2012
Actually they're probably dumb enough to put it on the ballot in 2014 instead, and then lose AGAIN because the typical midterm election electorate is MUCH older (& more anti-gay).

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#5 Dec 1, 2012
Many Californians believe equal rights should never depend on any popular vote, and want constitutional equality affirmed by the courts, so they can never again be taken away by a majority influenced by fear and repressive religious beliefs not shared by all.

Justice delayed is justice denied, and separate can never be equal. That being said, Californians currently have marriage equality for those who were married in or out of state before prop 8, and still have "domestic partnerships" which provide nearly all of the state rights. As long as federal rights remain withheld, most I believe, are willing to wait for the courts and direct efforts toward overturning DOMA before devoting resources toward overturning 8 by a popular vote. However, if the court fails its duty to enforce equal protections for everyone this time around, the next step will be to return to the ballot box.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#6 Dec 1, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Actually they're probably dumb enough to put it on the ballot in 2014 instead, and then lose AGAIN because the typical midterm election electorate is MUCH older (& more anti-gay).
This is my fear.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#7 Dec 1, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
Many Californians believe equal rights should never depend on any popular vote, and want constitutional equality affirmed by the courts, so they can never again be taken away by a majority influenced by fear and repressive religious beliefs not shared by all.
Justice delayed is justice denied, and separate can never be equal. That being said, Californians currently have marriage equality for those who were married in or out of state before prop 8, and still have "domestic partnerships" which provide nearly all of the state rights. As long as federal rights remain withheld, most I believe, are willing to wait for the courts and direct efforts toward overturning DOMA before devoting resources toward overturning 8 by a popular vote. However, if the court fails its duty to enforce equal protections for everyone this time around, the next step will be to return to the ballot box.
The question is how long are they willing to wait? Unfortunately we just missed the best opportunity for a successful vote (Nov 6th 2012) under the mistaken assumption the SCOTUS would act one way or the other by the election- or shortly thereafter.

Oh well, nothing we can do about it now. The SCOTUS can hold the Prop 8 case for years if they want. If there is no definitive word by the end of this year, then we probably need to just admit they have no intention of ruling on the case before they decide the DOMA cases. Then they'll probably send Prop 8 back down to the 9th circuit for reconsideration or to the district court for a retrial or something like that.

Bottom line is we could easily be looking at years more of delay.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#8 Dec 1, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
The question is how long are they willing to wait? Unfortunately we just missed the best opportunity for a successful vote (Nov 6th 2012) under the mistaken assumption the SCOTUS would act one way or the other by the election- or shortly thereafter.
Oh well, nothing we can do about it now. The SCOTUS can hold the Prop 8 case for years if they want. If there is no definitive word by the end of this year, then we probably need to just admit they have no intention of ruling on the case before they decide the DOMA cases. Then they'll probably send Prop 8 back down to the 9th circuit for reconsideration or to the district court for a retrial or something like that.
Bottom line is we could easily be looking at years more of delay.
I can't see Ca. waiting past 2016, if they can wait past 2014. We should know whether the Supremes are going to do anything before then. Hopefully, there will be enough new younger voters replacing the very old that the scales will tip to the equality side this time. But Ca. is a big and varied State, with lots of religious conservatives of all ages, and lots of mormons next door as well, etc.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#11 Dec 2, 2012
Civil rights are the right of the individual. It doesn't matter how many of those individuals exist, nor does a fundamental right depend on how many choose to exercise that right.

"No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." (14th amendment)

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#12 Dec 2, 2012
309,000,000 Americans X 3% Gay Americans = 9,270,000.

9,270,000 Gay Americans / 50 States = 185,400 Gay Americans per State

185,400 Gay Americans per State X 6 States that allow Gay Marriage = 1,112,400

131,729 Reported Gay Marriages X 2 = 262,458 Gay Americans in a Marriage

(262,458 Gay Americans in a Marriage / 1,112,400 X 100)= 23.6%

So proportionally, 23.6% of gay people are in a gay marriage. This rate would go up if you included civil unions and domestic partnerships. That means that about 1/4 of gay people are in a committed monogamous relationship.

Let's do heterosexuals now.

309,000,000 Americans X .97 Straight Americans = 299,730,000

According to the Census, a total of 114,567,419 households were reported.

Of those, 48.6% were reported as married couples.

114,567,419 X .486 = 55,679,765 married couples.

55,679,765 married couples X 2 = 111,359,539 married people.

299,730,000 Straight Americans / 111,359,539 married people X 100 = 37.1%.

So 23.1% of gay and lesbian Americans are reported to be in a marriage, and 37.1% of straight Americans are reported to be in a marriage.

That discrepancy has a lot of factors involved, but it does reveal that gays and lesbians are entering committed, monogamous relationships at steadily increasing rates, and the more accepting the society is for GLBT people, the more quickly you will see the two percentages become closer.

Isn't math fun?
Math is fun, isn't it?
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#13 Dec 2, 2012
Caleb wrote:
What a dishonest article! No significant percent of the homosexual population has 'married' in ANY country on earth that allows the oxymoron. Trying to present some huge economic gain is a lie. Homosexual 'marriage' is a cruel lie! Homosexuals overwhelmingly reject 'marriage' as an actual practice in every country that permits it, and studies have shown that such rare relationships are rarely even exclusive, much less anything like a real marriage.
Our marriages are proving to be some of the most successful on the planet
.
We're taking our time and doing it right
.
We're setting the standard

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#16 Dec 2, 2012
All straight people have been taught from birth that they will grow up and get married. While not all do, most believe they eventually will. They have no reason to doubt.

Gay people have been forming relationships since caveman days, and have been getting married throughout history in various times and places. But most gay people alive today have been told all their lives until the last 10 years or so, that gay people cannot get married. Many discarded the notion that marriage was important to them. So it is somewhat surprising that gay people over 30 would want to get married unless they are raising children.

Younger gay people have lived with a more realistic expectation that they can get married and will be able to have their marriages recognized. Once the US joins Canada and Mexico in recognizing marriage equality, more will grow up with the realistic expectation that marriage is available to them, and it is logical to assume more will participate.

But as the 38,000 gay people who took advantage of marriage equality in California when it was available demonstrate, many American citizens will exercise their fundamental right of marriage when they can.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#17 Dec 2, 2012
Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Our marriages are proving to be some of the most successful on the planet
.
We're taking our time and doing it right
.
We're setting the standard
Sorry for not crediting the math to you.
I think that is where it came from, eh?
Good stuff.
Prop 8 is Law

Fremont, CA

#19 Dec 2, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
309,000,000 Americans X 3% Gay Americans = 9,270,000.
9,270,000 Gay Americans / 50 States = 185,400 Gay Americans per State
185,400 Gay Americans per State X 6 States that allow Gay Marriage = 1,112,400
131,729 Reported Gay Marriages X 2 = 262,458 Gay Americans in a Marriage
(262,458 Gay Americans in a Marriage / 1,112,400 X 100)= 23.6%
So proportionally, 23.6% of gay people are in a gay marriage. This rate would go up if you included civil unions and domestic partnerships. That means that about 1/4 of gay people are in a committed monogamous relationship.
Let's do heterosexuals now.
309,000,000 Americans X .97 Straight Americans = 299,730,000
According to the Census, a total of 114,567,419 households were reported.
Of those, 48.6% were reported as married couples.
114,567,419 X .486 = 55,679,765 married couples.
55,679,765 married couples X 2 = 111,359,539 married people.
299,730,000 Straight Americans / 111,359,539 married people X 100 = 37.1%.
So 23.1% of gay and lesbian Americans are reported to be in a marriage, and 37.1% of straight Americans are reported to be in a marriage.
That discrepancy has a lot of factors involved, but it does reveal that gays and lesbians are entering committed, monogamous relationships at steadily increasing rates, and the more accepting the society is for GLBT people, the more quickly you will see the two percentages become closer.
Isn't math fun?
Math is fun, isn't it?
Here is one. What percent of people with AIDS are gay? 80%.
What percent of suicides are gays? 53%.
What under numbers matter?
Isn't math fun?
Prop 8 is Law

Fremont, CA

#20 Dec 2, 2012
Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Our marriages are proving to be some of the most successful on the planet
.
We're taking our time and doing it right
.
We're setting the standard
Really? You gays are proving to be the most suicidal on the planet. You are taking your time and doing it right. You gays are proving to be the most AIDS infected people on the planet. You are taking your time and doing it right. The rate of spousal battery in gay relationships is reported at twice the rate of heterosexuals. Yup, you have set the standard.
Yup,you have set the standard.
Prop 8 is Law

Fremont, CA

#21 Dec 2, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry for not crediting the math to you.
I think that is where it came from, eh?
Good stuff.
Why don't you use the 1% or 10% number to represent gay Americans? Try it, so you can see that you just made this all up to suit your gay delusion.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#22 Dec 2, 2012
Prop 8 is Law wrote:
<quoted text>Here is one. What percent of people with AIDS are gay? 80%.
What percent of suicides are gays? 53%.
What under numbers matter?
Isn't math fun?
While you numbers are off, you still provide no legitimate governmental interest sufficient for denial of equal rights including marriage equality, but rather the opposite.

Those categories indicate the importance of treating everyone equal under the law, as we know prejudice and discrimination result in more self destructive behavior including high risk sex as well as suicide.

"It is important to note that being LGBT is not a risk factor in and of itself; however, the minority stressors that LGBT individual encounter - such as discrimination and harassment - are directly associated with suicidal behavior as well as indirectly with risk factors for suicide." (American Association of Suicidology)
http://www.suicidology.org/c/document_library...

"The research, published in the January Pediatrics (Vol. 123, No. 1), found that LGB adults who reported high rates of parental rejection in their teens were 8.4 times more likely to report having attempted suicide, 5.9 times more likely to report high levels of depression, 3.4 times more likely to use illegal drugs, and 3.4 times more likely to have had unprotected sex than LGB peers who reported no or low levels of family rejection, reports the study team, headed by Caitlin Ryan, PhD, of San Francisco State University.

Prejudice and discrimination result in needless suffering and death.
TheTroll Stopper

Roanoke, VA

#23 Dec 2, 2012
Caleb aka David Moore the Closet Case Pekin Troll wrote:
Look David Moore, just because you're still bitter that your ex-wife won't let you anywhere near your own kids anymore doesn't mean you should take it out on the rest of us.

Just come out of the closet already.
TheTroll Stopper

Roanoke, VA

#24 Dec 2, 2012
Prop 8 is Law wrote:
<quoted text>Here is one. What percent of people with AIDS are gay? 80%.
Well, since lesbians have the world's lowest infection rates for AIDS and all other STD's, I guess that makes them the chosen ones, bigot boy! LOLAY!

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#25 Dec 2, 2012
fr Caleb:

>What a dishonest article! No significant percent of the homosexual population has 'married' in ANY country on earth that allows the oxymoron. Trying to present some huge economic gain is a lie. Homosexual 'marriage' is a cruel lie!...<

David, please quit SPAMMING THE BOARDS. You say the same LIES everytime, and everybody knows that it's YOU. You need serious psychiatric help, you really do.

You're the one who is DISHONEST, DAVID MOORE OF PEKIN IL.
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#26 Dec 3, 2012
Prop 8 is Law wrote:
<quoted text>Why don't you use the 1% or 10% number to represent gay Americans? Try it, so you can see that you just made this all up to suit your gay delusion.
30% of all Americans are fabulous
http://www.gallup.com/video/147827/young-adul...
.
Apparently you are merely plain vanilla
.
po'thang

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