Utah turns to higher court to halt ga...

Utah turns to higher court to halt gay marriage

There are 271 comments on the WTOP-FM Washington story from Dec 24, 2013, titled Utah turns to higher court to halt gay marriage. In it, WTOP-FM Washington reports that:

Utah state lawyers have again turned to a Denver-based federal appeals court in their bid to put a stop to gay couples getting married, saying the state should not be required to abide by one judge's narrow view of a "new and fundamentally different definition of marriage."

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“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#267 Dec 28, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
I agree it sounds gender specific; that's kinda the point.
The term widow evolved into a gender specific term for the simple reason women usually outlived their husbands. It was a way of differentiating between a single woman (old maid)who had no rights of her own and a formerly married woman (widow) who still had the rights she had through her dead husband. The "widow Johnson" could own her deceased husband's property outright and in some instances was even able to vote in his place.
The term widower evolved from that for the few cases where the husband outlived his wife.
Widow/widower, husband/wife, Mr/Mrs, are all gender specific terms which will likely be changed or adapted to the new reality of same-sex spouses.
I definitely agree with the sentiment, but I'm not sure I agree how "likely" these changes are. It seems more likely to me, because it seems generally simpler, that the gay community will just adapt to the conventions already in use by the majority. Occam's razor. This kind of cultural absorption (now that we're part of the marriage culture) would probably conform to the simplest path. But, it will be interesting to watch it all happen!

My main complaint in this mini-thread is how people like Wondering feel the need to evoke a "gay dictionary" that somehow has utterly contradictory definitions from what he's used to. They use the idea to justify their scare quotes around same-sex "marriage". As if two people of the same gender joining together as family is SO starkly different from two people of the opposite gender joining together as family. Oh no! Redefinition! We can hardly recognize it anymore!

Or as if dictionaries have only ONE definition, rather than the long lists of possible simultaneous definitions. Or as if ANY dictionary actually RULES how we must talk, rather than simply reflecting it, changes and all (which happen frequently, keep up or sound Victorian).
Christaliban

Philadelphia, PA

#268 Dec 28, 2013
Basque_spaniards wrote:
in 8 years 22.000 gays marriages
Good, then even if that number is true there's little for you to be upset about.

Go try to prevent str8 men from raping women, str8 people from divorcing, if you so "not a homophobe."

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#269 Dec 28, 2013
Basque_spaniards wrote:
Im not the best man who can make a decision of gay marriage. In my country is legal but I have to say that these marriages has not showed a great demostration of gays Boom!!! In contrast, in 8 years 22.000 gays marriages has been celebrated. So in any case they are an absolutely minority.
In spain, 1 man over 100 is gay. I respect them by not total gay supporter. Spain is still very conservative in these cases. In public the gay manners are disgusting but in private it doesn´t matter.
The position is respect but with precaution. Any gay wont never be attacked in spain if its respectul and well-educated.
The majority of spanish men is blindly attracted to the women. But I have to say that the manners are more important than other thing.
If a women or men want to attract an spaniard never behave like "dog in heat" because he will escape.
In Espana I think only 1 man over 100 acts like you think is gay. There are others who do not act that way.

Thank you for your enlightened opinion.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#270 Dec 28, 2013
What if we chucked the whole medieval breeding program family name thing. It was just aping the overlords anyway.

What if a married couple's last names were melded.

Smith and Kline would be Smine or Klith.

Of course, some combos might be amusing, or tragically funny.

Since: Jan 08

Pattaya, Thailand

#271 Dec 29, 2013
snyper wrote:
What if we chucked the whole medieval breeding program family name thing. It was just aping the overlords anyway.
What if a married couple's last names were melded.
Smith and Kline would be Smine or Klith.
Of course, some combos might be amusing, or tragically funny.
Reminds me of a game we used to play in the 60's where we'd combine the names of 2 cars. For example, take a Plymouth Valiant (remember them) with a Mercury (Mercury!?) Comet and you came up with a.... Vomit (with bucket seats no less).

I'm for letting people call themselves anything they like, though I do wonder how North West will like his name when he gets older.(Does anyone remember Johnny Cash's 'A Boy Named Sue'?)

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#272 Dec 29, 2013
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
I definitely agree with the sentiment, but I'm not sure I agree how "likely" these changes are. It seems more likely to me, because it seems generally simpler, that the gay community will just adapt to the conventions already in use by the majority. Occam's razor. This kind of cultural absorption (now that we're part of the marriage culture) would probably conform to the simplest path. But, it will be interesting to watch it all happen!
My main complaint in this mini-thread is how people like Wondering feel the need to evoke a "gay dictionary" that somehow has utterly contradictory definitions from what he's used to. They use the idea to justify their scare quotes around same-sex "marriage". As if two people of the same gender joining together as family is SO starkly different from two people of the opposite gender joining together as family. Oh no! Redefinition! We can hardly recognize it anymore!
Or as if dictionaries have only ONE definition, rather than the long lists of possible simultaneous definitions. Or as if ANY dictionary actually RULES how we must talk, rather than simply reflecting it, changes and all (which happen frequently, keep up or sound Victorian).
I mostly find it intriguing from an anthropological aspect. Same-sex couples legally marrying and forming families will of course have an effect on our society and our language, similar to the effects of women joining the work force and divorce becoming common. It will be interesting to see that play out over the coming decades.

Not to play into the anti-gays rhetoric, but we are indeed in unchartered waters here.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#273 Dec 29, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
In Espana I think only 1 man over 100 acts like you think is gay. There are others who do not act that way.
Thank you for your enlightened opinion.
How many men over 100 do you suppose live in Spain? Could all but one still be in the closet?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#274 Dec 30, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
How many men over 100 do you suppose live in Spain? Could all but one still be in the closet?
The poster is not hostile, and his translation of his thought into English is just clumsy. He obviously means 1/100, and he's running on plain observation using what he knows as identifiers. Stereotypes.

His problem is just ignorance, not malice. He probably doesn't know that he's met a great many non-obvious gay people. He isn't averse to learning.

Couldn't you tell?

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#275 Dec 30, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
The poster is not hostile, and his translation of his thought into English is just clumsy. He obviously means 1/100, and he's running on plain observation using what he knows as identifiers. Stereotypes.
His problem is just ignorance, not malice. He probably doesn't know that he's met a great many non-obvious gay people. He isn't averse to learning.
Couldn't you tell?
Of course I could tell. That's why I took a jab at you, not him. Btw: "ignorance" is such a loaded word. How else could you describe someone with an open heart but whose only experience is stereotypes?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#276 Dec 30, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course I could tell. That's why I took a jab at you, not him. Btw: "ignorance" is such a loaded word. How else could you describe someone with an open heart but whose only experience is stereotypes?
Precisely.

Ignorance of itself is neutral, and in some cases even benign.

It's STUBBORN ignorance that is stupidity ... and toxic.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#277 Dec 30, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
I mostly find it intriguing from an anthropological aspect. Same-sex couples legally marrying and forming families will of course have an effect on our society and our language, similar to the effects of women joining the work force and divorce becoming common. It will be interesting to see that play out over the coming decades.
Not to play into the anti-gays rhetoric, but we are indeed in unchartered waters here.
I don't think that plays into their rhetoric at all. Uncharted waters become charted easily, by the pioneers who sail first.

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