Utah turns to higher court to halt ga...

Utah turns to higher court to halt gay marriage

There are 271 comments on the WTOP-FM Washington story from Dec 24, 2013, titled Utah turns to higher court to halt gay marriage. In it, WTOP-FM Washington reports that:

Utah state lawyers have again turned to a Denver-based federal appeals court in their bid to put a stop to gay couples getting married, saying the state should not be required to abide by one judge's narrow view of a "new and fundamentally different definition of marriage."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WTOP-FM Washington.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#247 Dec 27, 2013
Husband = one who manages resources
Wife = woman, one of those resources

Spouse = a person who's made a commitment
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#248 Dec 27, 2013
EdmondWA wrote:
I don't see Wondering's point at all.
I'm not surprised.
Xstain Mullah Aroma

Philadelphia, PA

#249 Dec 27, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Pietro the Wondering and I go way back. I know what little I'm actually up against.
I view the thing in question as a chance to call fundie sc um names. And also mock their anti rational "beliefs." And point out how homosexually fixated the evil gelicals are.
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#250 Dec 27, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
All of the clerks that issue a license to a gay couple in a state where gay marriage is banned should be fired.
The Attorney General for the State of Utah has solved your problem; sugar:
.
"Denying same-sex marriage licenses illegal, says A.G. office "
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57306295-78...

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#251 Dec 27, 2013
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know, not sure I see it that way.
I've always thought of the words like this:
Widower - a man whose spouse has died
Widow - a woman whose spouse has died
In the same sense as
Husband - a man who is married
Wife - a woman who is married
Neither set refers to the gender of the spouse, they simply apply based on the gender of the subject.
I don't see Wondering's point at all. He seems to be bothered that Rick in Kansas used the term "unmarried widower" which, on it's face, might seem redundant. But, a widower could re-marry, so he could be married or unmarried.
Why not just use widow for both as it was originally?

Widow- a person whose spouse has died.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#252 Dec 27, 2013
Jaredb8 wrote:
<quoted text>
All we want tone is treated like humans with the same rights as you straight people that Divorce at a rate over 60%.
it's closer to 52%.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#253 Dec 27, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Gays are men and women, homosexuality is not a person, the same rules apply to them and that makes them equal.
glad to see you now support marriage equality.
Utah is the writing on the wall.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#254 Dec 27, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Why not just use widow for both as it was originally?
Widow- a person whose spouse has died.
Sounds so weird that way. Sounds specific to a woman. Not sure I could get used to it!

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#255 Dec 27, 2013
Wondering wrote:
I'm not surprised.
Well, what's the issue?

Widower - a man whose spouse has died.

So then, more specifically:

Married widower - a widower who has gotten married again (also, Remarried widower)

Unmarried widower - a widower who remains unmarried to anyone new.

I don't think Rick in Kansas was trying to "redefine" widower. He only added a qualifier adjective to it. It still doesn't add up to a "gay dictionary". There's just the English language that we're all using, which already has adjectives built into it.
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#256 Dec 27, 2013
What was once considered 'The Impossible Star' has now found its place in the bottom left corner of the blue field
http://makeitequal.org/
.
The four corners of The Flag of Equal Marriage are now complete :)

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#257 Dec 27, 2013
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, what's the issue?
Widower - a man whose spouse has died.
So then, more specifically:
Married widower - a widower who has gotten married again (also, Remarried widower)
Unmarried widower - a widower who remains unmarried to anyone new.
I don't think Rick in Kansas was trying to "redefine" widower. He only added a qualifier adjective to it. It still doesn't add up to a "gay dictionary". There's just the English language that we're all using, which already has adjectives built into it.
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about widow and widower. A widow is a woman whose spouse has died, and a widower is a man whose spouse has died.

Of course, widow can also be used as a verb, as in "She was widowed when her husband failed to return from his whaling expedition." And given that, wouldn't her dead husband--the one who widowed her--be the widower?

I'm not sure that I've ever heard widow used as a verb in reference to a man, as in "He was widowed during his wife's tragic child-birth." Would he be widowered? Is widow gender-neutral as a verb, but gender-specific as a noun?

Whatever it is, I see no need to change the term depending on the sex of the deceased. It's the living person who was widowed.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#258 Dec 28, 2013
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds so weird that way. Sounds specific to a woman. Not sure I could get used to it!
I agree it sounds gender specific; that's kinda the point.

The term widow evolved into a gender specific term for the simple reason women usually outlived their husbands. It was a way of differentiating between a single woman (old maid)who had no rights of her own and a formerly married woman (widow) who still had the rights she had through her dead husband. The "widow Johnson" could own her deceased husband's property outright and in some instances was even able to vote in his place.

The term widower evolved from that for the few cases where the husband outlived his wife.

Widow/widower, husband/wife, Mr/Mrs, are all gender specific terms which will likely be changed or adapted to the new reality of same-sex spouses.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#259 Dec 28, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about widow and widower. A widow is a woman whose spouse has died, and a widower is a man whose spouse has died.
Of course, widow can also be used as a verb, as in "She was widowed when her husband failed to return from his whaling expedition." And given that, wouldn't her dead husband--the one who widowed her--be the widower?
I'm not sure that I've ever heard widow used as a verb in reference to a man, as in "He was widowed during his wife's tragic child-birth." Would he be widowered? Is widow gender-neutral as a verb, but gender-specific as a noun?
Whatever it is, I see no need to change the term depending on the sex of the deceased. It's the living person who was widowed.
Here's another interesting twist:

Will a woman married to another woman use the term "Mrs" in front of their spouse's full name like many wives do with their husband's name?

For example:

-Mrs. John Smith refers to John's wife Mary.
-Mrs. Mary Smith ALSO refers to John's wife Mary.

Will Mrs. Mary Smith refer to Mary's wife Shirley?
Or Mary referring to herself?

How will we know?

If nothing else, same-sex couples marrying will cause some people to question the misogynistic terminology still widely accept even by women themselves.

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#260 Dec 28, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's another interesting twist:
Will a woman married to another woman use the term "Mrs" in front of their spouse's full name like many wives do with their husband's name?
For example:
-Mrs. John Smith refers to John's wife Mary.
-Mrs. Mary Smith ALSO refers to John's wife Mary.
Will Mrs. Mary Smith refer to Mary's wife Shirley?
Or Mary referring to herself?
How will we know?
If nothing else, same-sex couples marrying will cause some people to question the misogynistic terminology still widely accept even by women themselves.
My wife and I both use the term "MRS." because it refers to a married woman, which we are and we have NO issue using that term.

I also was referred to as a "WIDOW" when my partner passed even though we were NOT legally MARRIED!!!

For me, I differentiated between my "PARTNER" who I was with for 12 1/2 years, but NEVER married to and my "WIFE" who I have been happily married to for over 5 years and is my first and only actual marriage!!!!

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#261 Dec 28, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Here's another interesting twist:
Will a woman married to another woman use the term "Mrs" in front of their spouse's full name like many wives do with their husband's name?
For example:
-Mrs. John Smith refers to John's wife Mary.
-Mrs. Mary Smith ALSO refers to John's wife Mary.
Will Mrs. Mary Smith refer to Mary's wife Shirley?
Or Mary referring to herself?
How will we know?
If nothing else, same-sex couples marrying will cause some people to question the misogynistic terminology still widely accept even by women themselves.
The best way to address someone is how they ask to be addressed and hope you remember how it was the next time you have to do it. I still keep an honest to goodness address book, the kind where you actually have to write down this sort of information. It's a mess. Hyphenated married names, reverse hyphenated married names, unhyphenated married names going in both directions, one changed surname, no changed surnames, hybrid surnames, new surnames, I've even got a Mrs and Miss

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#262 Dec 28, 2013
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
My wife and I both use the term "MRS." because it refers to a married woman, which we are and we have NO issue using that term.
I also was referred to as a "WIDOW" when my partner passed even though we were NOT legally MARRIED!!!
For me, I differentiated between my "PARTNER" who I was with for 12 1/2 years, but NEVER married to and my "WIFE" who I have been happily married to for over 5 years and is my first and only actual marriage!!!!
I have no problem with however people want to refer to themselves & their spouse or husband or wife or whatever.

I was just pointing out that some of the common terminology and the ways we all use them WILL change as people become accustomed to the new reality that a spouse isn't always the opposite sex anymore.

Obviously hubby & I only use Mr. & Mr., but I am curious if Mrs will be used the same as it is today.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#263 Dec 28, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>The best way to address someone is how they ask to be addressed and hope you remember how it was the next time you have to do it. I still keep an honest to goodness address book, the kind where you actually have to write down this sort of information. It's a mess. Hyphenated married names, reverse hyphenated married names, unhyphenated married names going in both directions, one changed surname, no changed surnames, hybrid surnames, new surnames, I've even got a Mrs and Miss
Obviously, but when someone introduces themselves as Mrs Jane Smith, does that mean Jane Smith is her name or her spouse's name? If she introduces herself as Mrs John Smith, it's pretty safe to assume her first same isn't John.

Maybe this will finally end the misogynistic use of the term Mrs?

Time will tell.

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#264 Dec 28, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no problem with however people want to refer to themselves & their spouse or husband or wife or whatever.
I was just pointing out that some of the common terminology and the ways we all use them WILL change as people become accustomed to the new reality that a spouse isn't always the opposite sex anymore.
Obviously hubby & I only use Mr. & Mr., but I am curious if Mrs will be used the same as it is today.
Who knows.......I, like you can only do what we do........some don't like the fact that we refer to each other as "wife", but that's their problem not ours.

People define themselves and their relationships as they see fit, just like whether or not some have an open marriage or relationship instead of a monogamous marriage or relationship.......and it is not for me to judge or tell them they are wrong.

I knew what you were pointing out and just opted to put in my 2 cents......peace my friend:-)

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#265 Dec 28, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Obviously, but when someone introduces themselves as Mrs Jane Smith, does that mean Jane Smith is her name or her spouse's name? If she introduces herself as Mrs John Smith, it's pretty safe to assume her first same isn't John.
Maybe this will finally end the misogynistic use of the term Mrs?
Time will tell.
I know two couples where a Michael has married a Michael, only one of which is a same sex couple and an opposite sex couple both named Jan. Any more, unless I know someone expects to be addressed as Mr or Mrs or whatever, I just go with the name they gave me. It's a lot easier on the etiquette.
Basque_spaniards

Portugalete, Spain

#266 Dec 28, 2013
Im not the best man who can make a decision of gay marriage. In my country is legal but I have to say that these marriages has not showed a great demostration of gays Boom!!! In contrast, in 8 years 22.000 gays marriages has been celebrated. So in any case they are an absolutely minority.
In spain, 1 man over 100 is gay. I respect them by not total gay supporter. Spain is still very conservative in these cases. In public the gay manners are disgusting but in private it doesn´t matter.
The position is respect but with precaution. Any gay wont never be attacked in spain if its respectul and well-educated.
The majority of spanish men is blindly attracted to the women. But I have to say that the manners are more important than other thing.
If a women or men want to attract an spaniard never behave like "dog in heat" because he will escape.

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