Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

Apr 27, 2009 | Posted by: SongBookz | Full story: news.yahoo.com

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

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15,181 - 15,200 of 16,105 Comments Last updated Aug 28, 2013

“No Allah: know peace”

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#17041
Jun 17, 2013
 

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Walterwalter wrote:
<quoted text>
do you have a copy of the Holy bible? If you do, then you might want to throw it out. Because clearly from your posts you just called the entire bible and God a liar.
I never called the God of the Bible a liar, just the men who have chosen to try and change or ignore His word...
Walterwalter wrote:
you deny the power of God, the purpose of His word and the prophets He chose to execute His word to every generation
Heres the thing, IF the bible were (as you proclaim it to be) just mens words and not true at all, then explain to me this
how is it the bible has held the same ultimate number one position of all holy lititure since the day it was written?
For much of its history, it was a captive audience.
Walterwalter wrote:
how has it maintained its status thru out EVERY century of mankind and not lost its flavor, power changing abilities, and how come it has never been proven to be in error by anyone?
It has been. Repeatedly. We now KNOW that Noah's flood was just a myth, we know that the Earth has been around for 4.5 BILLION years, that the Earth is a sphere and not a flat disc...
Walterwalter wrote:
had it been false it would not 'stood the test of time' as it has.
had it been false it would not of fulfilled TO THE LETTER every given prophecy up to date as it has.
Oh, there are plenty of prophecies that have not been fulfilled. The Messiah, for example.
Walterwalter wrote:
no man has ever been able to change it, alter it, ban it, lessen its worth or remove it from its all time number one spot.
False. Paul invented a whole new religion that pretends to use parts of the Bible while ignoring other parts.
Walterwalter wrote:
so, your human desire to distrust what Isaiah 55:11 claims, is about as insignificant as an ant trying to topple an elephant off a cliff.
the proof is in the test of time.
Thank you. That is a delightful verse, and the rest of the passage proves my point!

Isaiah 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither...

The Bible is not a science text. It fails to accurately explain things like the hydrological cycle, since we now know that the rain that falls to Earth comes from clouds, not because some guy with a long white beard opened up a window in the heavens. And after that rain falls, it eventually DOES return thither, too.

“No Allah: know peace”

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Jun 17, 2013
 

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Walterwalter wrote:
<quoted text>
Murder
Idolatry
Sexual immorality
refusal to obey the laws of God
the bible says if you are guilty of breaking ONE commandment
you are guilty of breaking them all.......
"for whosoever shall keep the whole law, yet offend in ONE point
he is guilty of all." James 2:10
thats why God sent Jesus, cause NO ONE can keep the entire law perfectly. God knew that.
Cite chapter and verse showing that those commandments had been given before the punishment.

And the Bible points out that humans CAN follow the Law, that is why the children of Israel received it in the first place. If the God of the Bible sent Jesus, it is only because Joseph and Mary had sex and his sperm reached her egg.
Thinking

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This pub used to be a church hall.

http://www.churchhousebanbury.co.uk/

Non believers keep you honest.
OKAY wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet HIS Followers are here today.

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#17044
Jun 17, 2013
 

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LowellGuy wrote:
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Your answer does not address my question, STILL. Why were/are people who were obviously not able to have children allowed to marry?
well, you see, there were these OTHER people, and they WERE allowed to get married, so that proves the point. HOW can you continue to deny this? After all, the cave men did it this way, so we need to continue doing it cave man fashion. Because anything else would be demeaning.

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#17045
Jun 17, 2013
 

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LowellGuy wrote:
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Ah, so you support "separate but equal." Sorry, but that's been deemed unconstitutional. Unless you think Plessy v. Ferguson was good law.
He is a "traditionalist". He probably thinks that the Dred Scott case was good law...

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#17046
Jun 17, 2013
 

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Europa Report wrote:
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Are you pushing only strict "biblical marriage" ?
One man and all the wives and concubines he can afford!

Or we could look at the model that 1 Samuel shows, and allow a man to marry a man, just like David and Johnathan...

“No Allah: know peace”

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#17047
Jun 17, 2013
 

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LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
And, as such, it is irrelevant to your argument, as people who abuse and who are abused can marry. So, you need to drop that entire line of reasoning from your argument. Unless, that is, you think that lots and lots of irrelevant nonsense combines to form a valid argument (it doesn't).
But if he drops the nonsense, he won't be able to post anything!

“No Allah: know peace”

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#17048
Jun 17, 2013
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
But it's only a mutually sterile, pointlessly duplicate gendered half of real marriage.
Different. Very different.
Real marriage is sacred. And scientific.
Ss couples are simply pretending. Even a child knows that, because they are NEVER mom and dad, are they.
Any marriage ritually performed by clergy is a sacred marriage.

There are a lot of sciences that can apply to a discussion of marriage:

* History can show us that while the vast majority of marriages were hetero couples or groups, there have been recorded cases of same sex marriages.

* Anthropology shows us that human cultures have used every form of marriage imaginable.

* Biology show us that it is not just humans, but all species of mammals and many other species as well, and in every degree from momentary examples of casual sex to life long pair bonding.

Etc, etc, etc. The funny thing is that ALL of the sciences show that you are wrong. And it is a funny thing about what "every" child knows, but most children as part of the growing up process learn to distinguish between the things they believed as children and the facts as the real world presents them. How many 5 year olds believe in Santa Claus? How many 25 year olds still do? Nuclear families are just one model of marriage and child-rearing, and it is a shrinking example, at that. These days, many children understand that some kids have a mommy and a daddy, and others have either a mommy OR a daddy, or a parent and a grandparent, or just grandparents, or parent and uncle and/or aunt, or two sets of mammies and daddies in different houses, etc, etc, etc.

Fun facts for the day:
As of 2000, nuclear families with the original biological parents constituted roughly 24.1% of American households

From here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_family

“No Allah: know peace”

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#17049
Jun 17, 2013
 

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KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Never have gotten that far.
Ss couples are not equal to marriage.
<quoted text>
Marriage exists before and apart from contract law.
Constructs do not always exist just for the individual.
Partially correct. Contracts exist so that the society can gain the benefits of stability and conformity in maintaining standards of behavior - as defined by the consensus of society. In a reasonable society, there can be no artificial barriers to natural expressions of love and bonding between consenting adults.

“No Allah: know peace”

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#17050
Jun 17, 2013
 

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Walterwalter wrote:
<quoted text>
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA? did you really say that?
OMG.
So you are calling the HOLY bible a lie?
well you can't reason with people who blasphem the bible with such horrid accusations.
you better read Exodus 20:3-17
it was Moses whom God gave those commandments to.
and it was Moses who read and taught and shared those 10 commandments to the Israelites.
And Moses received those commandments CENTURIES after Sodom was destroyed, or the flood of myth was said to have occurred. So, what SPECIFIC commandments were violated in either of those events?

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#17051
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Walterwalter wrote:
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Jesus NEVER said He would return in the life time of His followers.
man you people who never read the bible and then get on here and make such idiotic statements like you do, creams my corn.
Jesus said that the generation who witnesses ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the fulfilled prophecys happening at the same time, would be the generation to see His return.
when Jesus was talking to the disciples the 2nd temple had not yet been distroyed.
many prophecys had to be fulfilled that would happen way after their life time.
Jesus also discussed the transfiguration, where some of those disciples would be chosen to go up on the mountain with Jesus and witness the transfiguration of Jesus (which was to see Him in His heavenly glorified body) for a short time.
READ THE BIBLE in truth.
stop listening to the lies of the world who could care less if you spend eternity in hell or not.
wise up.
You are confused a to what the Bible actually says...

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Israel did not have all that many cities...

Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that >>> THIS <<< generation shall not pass...

Oops, that generation has been dust for a LONG time.

“No Allah: know peace”

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Thinking wrote:
This pub used to be a church hall.
http://www.churchhousebanbury.co.uk/
Non believers keep you honest.
<quoted text>
Progress!

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Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
I never called the God of the Bible a liar,
You just come as close as you can without doing so.

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Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Cite chapter and verse showing that those commandments had been given before the punishment.
And the Bible points out that humans CAN follow the Law, that is why the children of Israel received it in the first place. If the God of the Bible sent Jesus, it is only because Joseph and Mary had sex and his sperm reached her egg.
Satan has his hooks in you DEEP.

“God Loves Ilks!”

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dollarsbill wrote:
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Satan has his hooks in you DEEP.
Matthew 7:1-5 - Judge not, that ye be not judged.(Read More...)

Romans 2:1-3 - Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.(Read More...)

Luke 6:37 - Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Revelation 21:4 - And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

James 4:11 - Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

Romans 2:3 - And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

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Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>
Matthew 7:1-5 - Judge not, that ye be not judged.(Read More...)
Romans 2:1-3 - Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.(Read More...)
Luke 6:37 - Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Revelation 21:4 - And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
James 4:11 - Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
Romans 2:3 - And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
"you will KNOW them"

Matthew 7:19-20 (NKJV)
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

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Walterwalter wrote:
<quoted text>
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA? did you really say that?
OMG.
So you are calling the HOLY bible a lie?
well you can't reason with people who blasphem the bible with such horrid accusations.
you better read Exodus 20:3-17
it was Moses whom God gave those commandments to.
and it was Moses who read and taught and shared those 10 commandments to the Israelites.
What commandments were broken? There were no commandments or Law before Moses. Please stop sniveling.

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#17058
Jun 17, 2013
 
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
See, this is the difference between marriage and a SS relationship.
I guess in a gay relationship, if the law doesn't require it, it doesn't count.
You can't include culture, because historically SS relationships are virtually absent.
Hell, you can't even consider the scientific aspect, because SS couples are an abnormality!
You make my point!
You have the totalitarian mindset, to wit:

"Anything not compulsory is forbidden, and anything not forbidden is compulsory."

Each couple defines their relationship for themselves. It's nobody else's business, and certainly not that of the mandated secular Government of a pluralistic Nation.

I'm not examining "narrowly", I'm being specific about what can be accurately and precisely defined, quantified if necessary, discussed rationally and tested empirically ... and I'm leaving the rest up to human variation and Freedom where it belongs.

BY THE WAY ... I'm still waiting for you to specify whom or what is "abused".

Make it march.

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#17059
Jun 17, 2013
 
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Here we go again.
Heteros consider married people a couple, not individuals. I guess when you duplicate gender even you understand nothing distinct is created.
I never used the term society, I was speaking of a culture, like the 'gay culture.'
Again, you are confusing symbol with referent.

A "couple" of INDIVIDUALS.

No individuals ... no couple is possible.

The LAW sees individuals (an empirical fact), or a corporate unit (a Legal fiction).

Individuals, or individuals in groups, are Free to have any other thoughts or feelings, rational and/or irrational, about whatever they choose.

It's called a Free and pluralistic Nation.

"E Pluribus Unum"

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#17060
Jun 17, 2013
 
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
So sex isn't a part of marriage unless its required by law?
Damn, I'm busted big time!!!
You've intentionally inverted/altered the obvious meaning. This is called a Straw Man Fallacy.

Sex, and the kind of sex, can be a part of the marriage contract, or not, completely at the discretion of the individuals. The Law doesn't take any notice, one way or the other. It isn't Gladys Kravitz. It doesn't meddle.

Isn't a Free Nation a great place to be a sovereign Citizen!

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