Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against ...

Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

There are 16102 comments on the news.yahoo.com story from Apr 27, 2009, titled Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?. In it, news.yahoo.com reports that:

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at news.yahoo.com.

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#15280 May 16, 2013
Will gay marriage pit church against church?

Of course it will.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#15281 May 16, 2013
Thinking wrote:
GFY.
<quoted text>
See? You will remember forever.
Thinking

London, UK

#15282 May 16, 2013
GFY.
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
See? You will remember forever.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#15283 May 16, 2013
Thinking wrote:
GFY.
<quoted text>
Mark 9:43-44 (NKJV)
43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- 44 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'
Thinking

London, UK

#15284 May 16, 2013
Psalms 103:8-10 trumps your hate addled bollocks.
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Mark 9:43-44 (NKJV)
43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- 44 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#15285 May 16, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Psalms 103:8-10 trumps your hate addled bollocks.
<quoted text>
OT does not overrule NT. Your Biblical illiteracy noted, again and again and .....

"God gave them up to vile passions" "men with men"

Romans 1:26-27 (NKJV)
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
Thinking

London, UK

#15286 May 16, 2013
Psalms 103:8-10 trumps your hate addled bollocks.
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
OT does not overrule NT. Your Biblical illiteracy noted, again and again and .....
"God gave them up to vile passions" "men with men"
Romans 1:26-27 (NKJV)
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#15287 May 16, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Psalms 103:8-10 trumps your hate addled bollocks.
<quoted text>
Your Biblical illiteracy noted, again. They will find you.

Matthew 13:49-50 (NKJV)
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

“Freedom and Liberty”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#15288 May 16, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
John 10:9 (NKJV)
9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
John 14:6 (NKJV)
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
That means that every aborted fetus is roasting on the old lake o' fire as we type because for them to have accepted Jesus is IMPOSSIBLE! And what about the American Indians before Columbus, how can you accept Jesus if you have never heard of him? And the mentally retarded who can't understand anything? They too got to hell.

What an eternity you will have looking down from heaven into hell at all the suffering fetuses and people who were born before Jesus being tortured day in and day out, forever.

You have to be filled with the love of God to enjoy that kind of thing.

And I can quote Jesus too.

JESUS: Luke 19:27, "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"

JESUS: Luke 14:26, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple."

“Freedom and Liberty”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#15289 May 16, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text> Matthew 13:49-50, So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."


A true follower of Jesus would have to be extremely poor--as poor as the proverbial churchmouse. The Bible makes this quite clear:

•(a) "...none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up everything he has" (Luke 14:33);
•(b) "If you want to be perfect, go and sell all you have and give the money to the poor and you will have riches in heaven" (Matt. 19:21);
•(c) "Sell your possessions and give alms" (Luke 12:33);
•(d) "But give what is in your cups and plates to the poor, and everything will be clean for you" (Luke 11:41);
•(e) "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt,.... But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven.... for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" (Matt. 6:19-21);
•(f) "How hardly shall they that have riches enter to the kingdom of God" (Mark 10:23);
•(g) "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" (Matt. 19:23-24);
•(h) A certain ruler told Jesus that he had obeyed all the commandments from his youth up. But, Jesus said, "Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me" (Luke 18:22, Mark 10:21),
•and (i) Paul said, "For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse, in order that I may gain Christ" (Phil. 3:8 RSV)

Imagine Christians heeding such pronoucements! It's much easier, and far less painful, to rationalize away clear-cut statements than surrender great wealth because of Biblical injunctions. Paul said, "And having food and raiment let us be therewith content" (1 Tim. 6:8). The lavish personal wealth of these men and many others bears witness to their avoidance of these teachings, as well as Luke 3:11, which says, "who has two coats, let him share with him who has none; and he who has food, let him do like-wise." One can only speculate as to the number of coats they have in their closets. Jesus said, "Give to him who asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matt. 5:42). Asking any Christian for a sizable portion of his or her wealth would be an exercise in futility. How many biblicists attempt to obey the biblical precept which says, "and from him who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. Give to every one who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again" (Luke 6:29-30 RSV)? They avoid Matt. 5:40, which says, "And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him also have thy cloak." Apologists don't mind quoting the prior verse (Matt. 5:39) about turning the other cheek, because it concerns attitudes and is not concrete; no direct physical denial is involved. Turning one's cheek is far less painful and tangible than turning in dollars. The former is more nebulous and subject to interpretation. Jesus commissioned his twelve disciples to, "provide neither gold nor silver, nor brass in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, not yet staves, for the workman is worthy of his meat" (Matt. 10:9-10). If these were the morally right procedures for the disciples of Christ 2,000 years ago, then they should have some relevance to his disciples of today. But the entourage and wealth accompanying any well-known evangelist on his periodic journeys highlights the inconsistency involved.

“Freedom and Liberty”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#15290 May 16, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
OT does not overrule NT. Your Biblical illiteracy noted, again and again and .....
"God gave them up to vile passions" "men with men"
Romans 1:26-27 (NKJV)
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
One of the clearest expressions of selective morality by biblicists is shown in their approach to the Old Testament. They leap in and out of the Old Law like a porpoise in a ship's wake. If they like it, they quote it; if they don't, they won't. Among the scores of verses they enjoy and employ are those which teach the following:

•(a) Contact with mediums or wizards is forbidden ("Do not turn to mediums or wizards; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God"--Lev. 19:31 RSV, see also:Lev. 20:6, Deut. 18:10-12);
•(b) Infanticide is prohibited ("...for every abomination to the Lord, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods"--Deut. 12:31, see also: Lev. 18:21);
•(c) Neither sex should wear the other's clothing ("The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God"--Deut. 22:5);
•(d) People are not to worship celestial bodies ("And beware lest you lift up your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, you be drawn away and worship them and serve them...."--Deut. 4:19 RSV);
•(e) People should give one-tenth of their income to the Lord, which biblicists equate with church ("And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's...And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord"--Lev. 27:30-32);
•(f) Homosexuality is corrupt ("Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with woman: it is abomination"--Lev. 18:22, see also Lev. 20:13 and Gen. 19:5;
•(g) Tattoos are anathema ("You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh on account of the dead or tattoo any marks upon you. I am the Lord"--Lev. 19:28;
•(h) Killers must be executed ("Who sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man"--Gen. 9:6, see also Num. 35:30-33, Ex. 21:12).

Biblicists also quote other parts of the Old Law, such as the Ten Commandments and scores of teachings outside the Pentateuch. They employ verses at will and even go so far as to twist some into saying that which is desired. For example, fundamentalists and evangelicals vigorously oppose abortion, but have been hard-pressed to find a biblical statement to corroborate their position. In their determination they have been forced to rely upon an exceedingly weak section stating that if two men are fighting and one injures a pregnant woman in the process, he shall repay her according to the degree of injury inflicted on her, not the foetus. "When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth...."--Ex. 21:22-24

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#15291 May 16, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
That means that every aborted fetus is roasting on the old lake o' fire as we type because for them to have accepted Jesus is IMPOSSIBLE! And what about the American Indians before Columbus, how can you accept Jesus if you have never heard of him? And the mentally retarded who can't understand anything? They too got to hell.
What an eternity you will have looking down from heaven into hell at all the suffering fetuses and people who were born before Jesus being tortured day in and day out, forever.
You have to be filled with the love of God to enjoy that kind of thing.
And I can quote Jesus too.
JESUS: Luke 19:27, "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"
JESUS: Luke 14:26, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple."
What an ignorant post!

“Freedom and Liberty”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#15292 May 16, 2013
What about the O.T. laws that are conveniently ignored, but of equal weight? Biblicists act as if many did not exist. The following examples are typical:

•(a) Money cannot be lent at interest to your brother, only to foreigners (Deut. 23:19-20);
•(b) Eating pork is forbidden (Deut. 14:8);
•(c) A man must marry and have relations with his dead brother's wife (Deut. 25:5-6);
•(d) A seducer must marry an unengaged virgin whom he seduces (Ex. 22:16-17);
•(e) A raped, unengaged virgin must marry her rapist and they can never divorce (Deut. 22:28-29);
•(f) Trials for adultery are to be by ordeal (Num. 5:28-29);
•(g) Eating rare meat with blood is forbidden (Lev. 19:26);
•(h) Beards can't be rounded (Lev. 19:27);
•(i) A newly married man can't go to war or be charged with business for one year (Deut. 24:5);
•(j) A guilty man can be beaten with as many as forty blows (Deut. 25:1-3);
•(k) A garment composed of wool and linen can't be worn (Deut. 22:11);
•(l) Punishment shall be administered on the basis of an eye for an eye (Deut. 19:21, Ex. 21:24);
•(m) One's nation can lend to other nations but not borrow from them (Deut. 15:6);
•(n) Bastards can't enter the Lord's congregation (Deut. 23:2);
•(o) First-born children should sometimes be sacrificed to the Lord (Ex. 22:29); and
•(p) Debtor brothers shall be released from their obligation every seven years (Deut. 15:1-3).

All of these rules are part of the Old Covenant and of equal import. Why quote the Ten Commandments and rules against infanticide, for example, while ignoring other tenets? A believer's obligations to one is no less than his obligation to all. In fact, if under the New Covenant Christians have stepped into the shoes of the Israelites and become, in effect, the new Chosen People, then they should inherit all the privileges and duties of that office. They seem to want the former but not the latter. As was stated at the end of last month's Commentary on Ignored Teachings, Jesus said the Old Law would stand until heaven and earth passed away. Not one jot or tittle was to be changed until all was fulfilled (Matt. 5:18-19 RSV). Paul disagreed, but, then, this is not the only topic upon which they clashed.

“Freedom and Liberty”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#15293 May 16, 2013
All of the following warrant execution, yet our resident homophobes only care about 'm':

•(a) striking your father or mother (Ex.21:15);
•(b) kidnapping (Ex. 21:6 RSV);
•(c) cursing your father or mother (Ex. 21:17 RSV, Lev. 20:9);
•(d) touching a mountain (Ex. 19:12 RSV);
•(e) allowing your ox to gore someone (Ex. 21:29);
•(f) lying with a beast (Ex. 22:19) RSV, Lev. 20:15-16);
•(g) sacrificing to other gods (Ex. 22:20 RSV);
•(h) failing to observe the Sabbath (Ex. 31:14-15);
•(i) drinking strong drinks while in the tabernacle (Lev. 10:9);
•(j) committing adultery (Lev. 20:10 RSV, Deut. 22:22);
•(k) lying with your father's wife (Lev. 20:11 RSV);
•(l) lying with your daughter-in-law (Lev. 20:12 RSV);
•(m) committing homosexual acts (Lev. 20:13 RSV);
•(n) being a medium or a wizard (Lev. 20:27 RSV);
•(o) being a witch (Ex. 22:18);
•(p) being a priest's daughter and becoming a whore (Lev. 21:9 RSV);
•(q) Blaspheming the name of the Lord (Lev. 24:16);
•(r) cursing (Lev. 24:14 RSV);
•(s) coming near the priesthood (Num. 3:10);
•(t) being a stranger who comes near the congregation's tabernacle (Num. 3:38);
•(u) gathering sticks on the Sabbath (Num. 15:32-35);
•(v) serving or worshipping other gods (Deut. 17:2-5 RSV);
•(w) showing contempt for the Lord's priest or judge (Deut. 17:12 NIV);
•(x) failing to obey one's parents (Deut. 21:18-21);
•(y) not being a virgin on your wedding day (Deut. 22:20-21 NIV);
•(z) being a betrothed virgin who did not cry out when seduced (Deut. 22:23-24);
•(aa) having relations with your wife and her mother (Lev. 20:14);
•(bb) telling people to seek other gods (Deut. 13:2,5); and
•(cc) being a false prophet (Deut. 18:20).

“Freedom and Liberty”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#15294 May 16, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
What an ignorant post!
Why do you single out homosexuality? Is it because you are completely stupid or just morally bankrupt?

How does it feel to know you are not a Christian and will burn in hell for eternity?

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#15295 May 16, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
That means that every aborted fetus is roasting on the old lake o' fire as we type because for them to have accepted Jesus is IMPOSSIBLE!
Another Biblically illiterate one.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#15296 May 16, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
A true follower of Jesus would have to be extremely poor--as poor as the proverbial churchmouse. The Bible makes this quite clear:
No it doesn't. Those who have much can also give much.

“Freedom and Liberty”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#15297 May 16, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
(blah blah blah snipped)
Romans 14:14,[MARY] "There is nothing un-natural of itself."

Homosexuality is natural.

JESUS: Matt. 18:19-20,[GW] "I can guarantee again that if two of you agree on anything here on earth, my Father in heaven will accept it.

Jesus tells us he guarantees that his father in heaven will accept two males agreeing to have gay sex.

GOD: Ecclesiastes 3:1, "There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven:"

GodTheBible tells us there is a time for homosexuality and a season for sodomy.

What is your problem?

“Freedom and Liberty”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#15298 May 16, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
What an ignorant post!
All I did was post quotes of chapter and verse. You are telling us the Bible is ignorant? We already know that.

How about you drink some Draino dollarsbill? Prove to us you really believe the Bible.

One of great weaknesses of the Bible lies in the fact that it contains tangible mechanisms by which to refute its truthfulness. Within it pages are verses which can be used to test the book's validity. They can be generally grouped under two broad headings--those involving tremendous powers given to believers and those involving powers attendant to prayer and requests. The most prominent verses within the first category are Mark 16:17-18, which says,

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them: they shall lays hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Many true believers have handled deadly snakes and drunk deadly poisons only to find the Bible is both erroneous and dangerous. Courts in Illinois, Tennessee, and elsewhere have repeatedly stopped practices of this nature because of the treat to life. Ask believers to drink poison or handle deadly snakes and one will quickly realize the extent to which even they do not take the book seriously. Mark 16:17-18 clearly states what they can do if they believe. Put them to the test, however, and you will witness a lot of rationalizing.

“Freedom and Liberty”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#15299 May 16, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Another Biblically illiterate one.
Blah blah blah dollarsbill!

YOU are the biblically illiterate one.

Here are verses which give unlimited powers to those who pray and ask God for assistance. Among these are comments as:

•(a) "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened"--Matt. 7:7-8, Luke 11:9-10;
•(b) "Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you"--John 16:23;
•(c) "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive"Matt. 21:22. Additional verses are: John 14:12-14, John 3:22, Mark 11:23-24, and James 5:15.

In order to counteract the patent inaccuracy of these premises, apologists seek modification through James 4:3 and 1 John 5:14. The former says, "Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask remiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." In other words, the reason the prayers of the sick, the old, the infirm, the afflicted, etc. have not been answered is because they were based on lust, greed and other selfish motives. It's hard to believe even hardened apologists really believe this.

On the other hand, 1 John 5:14 ("...if we ask anything according to his will, he heareth us") represents a more subtle ploy. Prayers are not answered because they do not comply with God's will. The problems with this explanation are:

•(a) the earlier verses said nothing about God's will or the need to fulfill His desires, and
•(b) judging from many prayers which people feel were answered, one can't help but question God's morality. Praying, for example, that one's relative will die in order to inherit his wealth and having your wish materialize, does not speak well for God.

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