Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

Apr 27, 2009 Full story: news.yahoo.com 16,103

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

Full Story

“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

Clitty

#15232 May 14, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you pervert. Because you are sodomite in human form I could care less if you wind up in a landfill or hell.
Proof God has a sense of humor regarding sodomites and perverts?
He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?
Repented? Yes, I have repented.
Do you attend Cinema 1 (First Free), or Cinema 2 (Rockford First)? I suggest you head over to Spring Creek UCC for a more accurate, and compassionate, Biblical perspective.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#15233 May 14, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
That's okay, Jesus is not prophesied in the Bible, either. Paul was, the Bible repeated warns of the coming of false prophets...
But Mohammud clearly explains how he was made a prophet and instructed to learn the Koran and teach others. His claim is certainly no worse than the claim made by Paul.
Ever hear of the "God Code"? As I recall it, the premise is that if you start at the "proper" point in the text of the Torah, and count the "proper" number of letters over, you will find the hidden messages in the text. One such code breaking clearly spelled out the words (in Hebrew, of course) saying that Mohammud is the Messiah. Of course, starting at a different point, and counting a different number of letters for each hop, you can also spell out Jesus is the Messiah, and most likely, the message that Barney is the Messiah for all you fans of big purple dinosaurs.
The point of that is that if you look hard enough, and twist the facts hard enough, you can get just about anything, even the mistaken notion that Jesus was anything special...
You are so stupid. How do you remember to breath?


Isaiah 53 is one of the most direct and powerful prophecies related to Jesus Christ as the suffering servant, fulfilling the role of the Jewish Messiah. Long before the death of Jesus on the cross, many Jewish teachers believed this important section of Isaiah predicted the coming of a redeemer who would arrive in Jerusalem. Yet modern Jewish scholars often argue the chapter relates to Israel, Moses, or another Jewish prophet of old. However, the text of Isaiah 53 strongly connects with the sufferings Jesus endured.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#15234 May 14, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you pervert. Because you are sodomite in human form I could care less if you wind up in a landfill or hell.
Proof God has a sense of humor regarding sodomites and perverts?
He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?
Repented? Yes, I have repented.
Dusty Mangina wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you attend Cinema 1 (First Free), or Cinema 2 (Rockford First)? I suggest you head over to Spring Creek UCC for a more accurate, and compassionate, Biblical perspective.
Might I suggest you stick it in your ear?

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#15235 May 14, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are right and God is a liar?
Well, I am right and the people who CLAIM to speak for God are liars...

Have you EVER read Deuteronomy? You need to. Start to finish, do not skip any verses. THEN go and look at the garbage that Paul wrote and see if you think that he was anything other than a false prophet.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#15236 May 14, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
You are so stupid. How do you remember to breath?
Isaiah 53 is one of the most direct and powerful prophecies related to Jesus Christ as the suffering servant, fulfilling the role of the Jewish Messiah. Long before the death of Jesus on the cross, many Jewish teachers believed this important section of Isaiah predicted the coming of a redeemer who would arrive in Jerusalem. Yet modern Jewish scholars often argue the chapter relates to Israel, Moses, or another Jewish prophet of old. However, the text of Isaiah 53 strongly connects with the sufferings Jesus endured.
Sure, it strongly connects, except where it doesn't. And then there is the pesky fact that Isaiah himself identifies the suffereing servant as the nation of Israel in his writings.

Isaiah 41:8 But thou, Israel,[art] my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.[9][Thou] whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou [art] my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.

Isaiah 49:3 And said unto me, Thou [art] my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

Oh, there it is again. There are a couple more verses that repeat this, if you are that slow...

Most importantly, you need to remember that chapter 52 flows into chapter 53 without any break. Read all of chapter 52, and continue on into 53 without pause. Then maybe you will understand the foolishness of your claim.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#15237 May 14, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are right and God is a liar?
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I am right and the people who CLAIM to speak for God are liars...
Have you EVER read Deuteronomy? You need to. Start to finish, do not skip any verses. THEN go and look at the garbage that Paul wrote and see if you think that he was anything other than a false prophet.
You are wrong and as a matter of fact you are dead wrong. You are the one speaking for God. You called God a liar. If you have a Bible it must be full of black magic marker lines covering scripture you don't agree with.

Have a read Deuteronomy? HUNDREDS AND HUNDRES OF TIMES!!! How about you?

“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

Clitty

#15238 May 14, 2013
OldJG wrote:
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you pervert. Because you are sodomite in human form I could care less if you wind up in a landfill or hell.
Proof God has a sense of humor regarding sodomites and perverts?
He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?
Repented? Yes, I have repented.
<quoted text>
Might I suggest you stick it in your ear?
That's not generally where I prefer to stick it, but I'll take it under consideration. Thanks for the tip.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#15239 May 14, 2013
Liam R wrote:
I have answered each and every one of these questions, many times before...
<quoted text>
NO! Paul was a false prophet whose writing CONTRADICT what the Bible says.
Is that clear enough for you, or will you need me to repeat it several MORE times?
<quoted text>
Well, gee, the writings of Paul are in that list, so obviously it is impossible for ANYONE who actually understands the Bible to belive everything from Gen to Rev. Then too, all of the writings of the NT are suspect to one degree or another. NONE of the disciples ever wrote a word, I doubt if any of them COULD have written a single word if their life depended on it - literacy was INCREDIBLY rare in that time and place.
<quoted text>
Oranges.
And since that answer will go so far over your head that you won't even hear the whistling noise, I'll explain...
The Bible, every last word of it, was written by humans. Fallible, error prone humans wrote every word, from Gen to Rev. After it was written, it was edited and revised, again by those fallible humans. They wrote a bunch of other books as well, some of which have been thought by many people to be equal to those books, but are not currently part of the canon.
The PROPER question is whether or not ANY of it was inspired by the God of the Bible, or was it all merely the invention of humans. I am willing to stipulate to the Divine inspiration of the Torah, just like I am willing to stipulate to the existence of the God of the Bible, without any direct evidence of His existance.
It is obvious to anyone with at least half a brain that neither of the Genesis creation myths matches reality. Noah's flood never happened - it was nothing more than a local event. HOWEVER, all of these myths and the other non-factual stories tell important stories, they tell the children of Israel that they are a special people to the God of the Bible, and that they had better obey His laws, or else!
Of course, that begs the question as to the validity of those laws. Were they handed down from On High? Or were they made up to keep unruly goatherders in line through fear of Divine retribution? Peronally, I feel taht if any part of the Bible was Divinely inspired, then it would HAVE to be the laws - nothing else would make sense otherwise.
And THAT is exactly where Paul gets the boot. The laws are VERY clear that NONE of the laws are to be changed, EVER. The children of Israel are REQUIRED to worship the God of the Bible EXACTLY the same way that their ancestors did after being taught by Moses. No exceptions, no changes, no additions to the Laws, no subtractions from the Laws.
Now, if you want to claim that the Laws were NOT inspired, that it was just mere humans who wrote that the Laws must NEVER be changed, then and only then I suppose that maybe Paul could possibly have the authority to change those laws - but only if none of the Laws were Divinely inspired in the first place.
You said, quote, "And THAT is exactly where Paul gets the boot. The laws are VERY clear that NONE of the laws are to be changed, EVER. The children of Israel are REQUIRED to worship the God of the Bible EXACTLY the same way that their ancestors did after being taught by Moses. No exceptions, no changes, no additions to the Laws, no subtractions from the Laws." End quote.

Really? They added 613 laws of their own. Exceptions? Too numerous to mention. You need to study and then speak. Moses came down off the mountain with TEN COMMANDMENTS.....TEN. Not 613.

The 613 commandments "613 Mitzvot" is the number of mitzvot listed in the Torah, first codified by Rabbi Simlai in Talmud Makkot 23b.

Are the Jews keeping the TEN COMMANDMENTS? Are you?

What about Jesus? Have you ever read John 13:34? Give it a try...."A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another." John 13:34

A NEW COMMANDMENT? Golly gee whiz. Was Jesus wrong?
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#15240 May 14, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure, it strongly connects, except where it doesn't. And then there is the pesky fact that Isaiah himself identifies the suffereing servant as the nation of Israel in his writings.
Isaiah 41:8 But thou, Israel,[art] my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.[9][Thou] whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou [art] my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.
Isaiah 49:3 And said unto me, Thou [art] my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
Oh, there it is again. There are a couple more verses that repeat this, if you are that slow...
Most importantly, you need to remember that chapter 52 flows into chapter 53 without any break. Read all of chapter 52, and continue on into 53 without pause. Then maybe you will understand the foolishness of your claim.
Isaiah 52:13, "Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, HE shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high." Who is HE?

Suffering.....not just servant. SUFFERING SERVANT. You think your talking with a rookie Mr. Jew?

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#15241 May 14, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Isaiah 52:13, "Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, HE shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high." Who is HE?
Suffering.....not just servant. SUFFERING SERVANT. You think your talking with a rookie Mr. Jew?
At this point, I figure that I am talking with an idiot. As was made clear, the suffering servant was the nation of Israel.

Minor point, I am not Jewish.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#15242 May 14, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
You said, quote, "And THAT is exactly where Paul gets the boot. The laws are VERY clear that NONE of the laws are to be changed, EVER. The children of Israel are REQUIRED to worship the God of the Bible EXACTLY the same way that their ancestors did after being taught by Moses. No exceptions, no changes, no additions to the Laws, no subtractions from the Laws." End quote.
Really? They added 613 laws of their own. Exceptions? Too numerous to mention. You need to study and then speak. Moses came down off the mountain with TEN COMMANDMENTS.....TEN. Not 613.
The 613 commandments "613 Mitzvot" is the number of mitzvot listed in the Torah, first codified by Rabbi Simlai in Talmud Makkot 23b.
Are the Jews keeping the TEN COMMANDMENTS? Are you?
What about Jesus? Have you ever read John 13:34? Give it a try...."A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another." John 13:34
A NEW COMMANDMENT? Golly gee whiz. Was Jesus wrong?
That's right. And those ten commandments were the absolute end of God speaking to Moses on the subject.

Leviticus 1:1 And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
1:2 Speak unto the children of Israel...

Oops. Looks like the Bible proves you wrong, yet again.

And yes, Jesus was wrong, loving one another was NOT a new Commandment:

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Don't forget now, THIS commandment is repeated MANY times:

Leviticus 19:37 Therefore shall ye observe all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: I am the LORD.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#15243 May 14, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
It matters not what I might say. You have closed what little mind you have left.
Your said, quote, "Present evidence or admit that your God is on par with leprechauns and pixies." End quote.
Check your heart beat and pulse. Take a deep breath. Look thru your eyes. Listen for sounds with your ears.
If I can substitute the word "leprechaun" or "pixie" for "God" and it doesn't lose any explanatory value, then God is a useless explanation.

Prove that it was God, and not leprechauns or pixies, that brought about life.

By the way, the old "look at the trees" bit isn't evidence of ANYTHING. EVER.
OldJG wrote:
Do you need more? Perhaps you are an evolutionist and believe human beings walked out of a swamp or used to swing from trees. If you are not an evolutionist how did you get here?
Even if I didn't have ANY explanation for how human beings came to be, that wouldn't make "God did it" a legitimate explanation. There's still no evidence that such a thing even exists, much less that it's responsible for anything we see in the universe.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#15244 May 14, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
At this point, I figure that I am talking with an idiot. As was made clear, the suffering servant was the nation of Israel.
Minor point, I am not Jewish.
At this point I am speaking to an illiterate idiot. Don't bother me with your BS anymore. Actually, a fat ugly idiot with a woman who looks like she should be on a leash.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#15245 May 14, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
That's right. And those ten commandments were the absolute end of God speaking to Moses on the subject.
Leviticus 1:1 And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
1:2 Speak unto the children of Israel...
Oops. Looks like the Bible proves you wrong, yet again.
And yes, Jesus was wrong, loving one another was NOT a new Commandment:
Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Don't forget now, THIS commandment is repeated MANY times:
Leviticus 19:37 Therefore shall ye observe all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: I am the LORD.
You said, quote, "Leviticus 1:1 And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
1:2 Speak unto the children of Israel...

Oops. Looks like the Bible proves you wrong, yet again.

And yes, Jesus was wrong, loving one another was NOT a new Commandment:" End quote.

First, you know absolutely nothing about the Torah.

Second, you don't have a clue about the suffering servant.

Third, you said Jesus was wrong. When you see him at the Great White Throne judgment you can tell him so.

Oops? Leviticus 1:1-2, 1 "The LORD called Moses and spoke to him from the tent of meeting, saying, 2 "Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When any one of you brings an offering to the LORD, you shall bring your offering of livestock from the herd or from the flock." Oops this!!
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#15246 May 14, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
If I can substitute the word "leprechaun" or "pixie" for "God" and it doesn't lose any explanatory value, then God is a useless explanation.
Prove that it was God, and not leprechauns or pixies, that brought about life.
By the way, the old "look at the trees" bit isn't evidence of ANYTHING. EVER.
<quoted text>
Even if I didn't have ANY explanation for how human beings came to be, that wouldn't make "God did it" a legitimate explanation. There's still no evidence that such a thing even exists, much less that it's responsible for anything we see in the universe.
You and Liam R should hook up. Then between the two of you there would be ONE active brain cell. ONE!!
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#15247 May 14, 2013
This is for Liam R and his "friend" LowellGuy...

http://www.gotquestions.org/born-gay.html
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#15249 May 15, 2013
Believing LINKS instead of believing in the Word of God is NOT believing in the biblical TRUTH.
Thinking

Hounslow, UK

#15250 May 15, 2013
A great example of links you should not believe: www.bible.cc
Truth wrote:
Believing LINKS instead of believing in the Word of God is NOT believing in the biblical TRUTH.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#15251 May 15, 2013
OldJG wrote:
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
You call it a mob
You say they are angry (with whom) it was Lot
You say they want to put their peter in someone's rear end
You said they wanted to humiliate the men
You forgot...they turned down Lot's virgin daughters if they wanted to put their peter in something why not Lot's daughters.
Why in some man's rear end?
All of this and you want the world to believe they are NOT homosexual. You believe the men of Sodom, ALL OF THE MEN OF SODOM, ALL, ALL, ALL, ALL OF THE MEN OF SODOM are heterosexuals who are so angry they want to put their peter in the two strangers rear end? Really?
Have you been drinking or smoking dope?
<quoted text>
Really? Why do you think I am a bully? Was I like the men of Sodom and not share my milk and cookies with you? LOL LOL
Yes I do. The men of Sodom were bullies just like you.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#15253 May 15, 2013
Actual science on the subject:
http://ic.galegroup.com.libwin2k.glendale.edu... |CV2642650217
In summary, family, biological, and molecular data support multiple genetic and environmental bases for sexual orientation, and evidence exists for childhood gender nonconformity.
Homosexuality is in the genes, and can be seen in childhood behaviors.

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