Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against ...

Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

There are 16101 comments on the news.yahoo.com story from Apr 27, 2009, titled Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?. In it, news.yahoo.com reports that:

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at news.yahoo.com.

OldJG

Rockford, IL

#14949 May 9, 2013
N2shotokai wrote:
These people in existing denominations that want to redefine Christianity to suit their worldy wants should start their own new-age denominations and quit dividing the churches.
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, you let those evil gays come in and the next thing you know, they'll be loving the Lord, caring for their fellow man, and worshipping in YOUR church, and there won't be a darn thing you can do to stop them!
We need to stop the gays from praising Jesus in our churches! Our very lives may be at stake!
Imagine a world where all folks, black and white, Tall and short, Asian and Mexican, gay and straight, pray together!
Oh, the horror!
Are you suggesting being homosexual is anything other than a sin? Is it possible you are lumping sodomites and lesbians into a class of people and then applying a civil right to the perversion as if it was not their choice to be sodomites and lesbians?

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#14950 May 9, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
The Law of Moses was ONLY for Israel.
Correct. So was the God of the Bible. The Bible also acknowledges that other people have their own Gods...

Judges 11:24 Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy God giveth thee to possess?

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#14951 May 9, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The existence of the conscience shows that man understands moral decisions.
Romans 2:14-16
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Hey! I just noticed that you have gotten better about citing your source when you post. Congratulations, and sorry that I didn't mention it sooner.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#14952 May 9, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
John 8:44 (NKJV)
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
I will remind you (again) that John has a couple of passages warning people AGAINST taking everything literally. Or did you literally crawl back into your mother when you accepted Jesus? Eeew,on second though, DO NOT answer that question.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#14953 May 9, 2013
OldJG wrote:
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
"abomination"
Leviticus 20:13 (NKJV)
13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.
<quoted text>
The Old Testament Law should not exclusively be used to argue homosexuality is sinful. Why? Because the New Testament also clearly and explicitly states homosexuality is both immoral and unnatural (Romans 1:26-27, I Corinthians 6:9) The New Testament confirms the Old Testament command against homosexuality, explains why the command existed, and argues for why homosexuality should continue to be considered sinful.
What about shrimp? Does God hate shrimp? No. Jesus Himself "declared all foods clean" (Mark 7:19). Jesus later confirmed this in a vision to Peter (Acts 10:15). While the New Testament confirms that homosexuality is sinful, it clearly indicates the food laws to be null and void. God never hated shrimp. Rather, God disallowed the consumption of shrimp to distinguish the Israelites' diet from that of the surrounding nations, and likely due to the fact that since they are bottom-feeders, shrimp are really not very healthy.
Silly child, ALL sin is defined in the Torah, and ONLY in the Torah - in fact, it is a sin to attempt to add anything to the list, OR to take anything off the list of sins. The food laws, along with every other law, are still part of the ETERNAL covenant.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#14954 May 9, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
And then you can just pick a different God, or pick a different church for a particular God, and bamm! you end up with a whole new set of standards for "morality".
Is owning slaves moral? The Bible says yes*, and many xians used that as justification for the evils of the antebellum South.
* Note: the slavery presented as moral in the Bible was VERY different from the institution of slavery as seen in the American South prior to the Civil War.
You ask many foolish questions and then justify your ignorance by quoting the Old Testament. Do you know the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant?
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#14955 May 9, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Silly child, ALL sin is defined in the Torah, and ONLY in the Torah - in fact, it is a sin to attempt to add anything to the list, OR to take anything off the list of sins. The food laws, along with every other law, are still part of the ETERNAL covenant.
Have you ever read the book of Acts? The book of Acts makes clear, Christians are not obligated to follow this holiness code. This is made clear in Peter's vision in Acts 10:15. Peter is told,'What God has made clean, do not call common.' In other words, there is no kosher code for Christians. Christians are not concerned with eating kosher foods and avoiding all others. That part of the law is no longer binding, and Christians can enjoy shrimp and pork with no injury to conscience.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#14956 May 9, 2013
OldJG wrote:
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
"abomination"
Leviticus 20:13 (NKJV)
13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.
<quoted text>
The Old Testament Law should not exclusively be used to argue homosexuality is sinful. Why? Because the New Testament also clearly and explicitly states homosexuality is both immoral and unnatural (Romans 1:26-27, I Corinthians 6:9) The New Testament confirms the Old Testament command against homosexuality, explains why the command existed, and argues for why homosexuality should continue to be considered sinful.
What about shrimp? Does God hate shrimp? No. Jesus Himself "declared all foods clean" (Mark 7:19). Jesus later confirmed this in a vision to Peter (Acts 10:15). While the New Testament confirms that homosexuality is sinful, it clearly indicates the food laws to be null and void. God never hated shrimp. Rather, God disallowed the consumption of shrimp to distinguish the Israelites' diet from that of the surrounding nations, and likely due to the fact that since they are bottom-feeders, shrimp are really not very healthy.
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Silly child, ALL sin is defined in the Torah, and ONLY in the Torah - in fact, it is a sin to attempt to add anything to the list, OR to take anything off the list of sins. The food laws, along with every other law, are still part of the ETERNAL covenant.
You are a scholar? Is Leviticus in the Torah? Yes or no.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#14957 May 9, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
There are no NT restrictions for eating meat. But the NT condemns gays to Hell.
Amen! Unless they repent and turn from being a sodomite or lesbian.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#14958 May 9, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no difference. The "Old" Covenant is eternal, the "new" covenant is exactly the same as the old, except that the God of the Bible promises to write the Laws of Moses in the hearts of men, so that none will have to study to know them perfectly. Yes, xians like to point to Jeremiah 31:31 and pretend that that somehow proves what they wish,but they ignore the rest of the passage. Quoting out of context is just another form of lying.
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Do try to remember that there are literally DOZENS of verses that repeat the same point over and over again, that the Laws and Commandments are to be followed EXACTLY as written, FOR EVER. Did the God of the Bible lie when He told Moses this? Did He lie to each of the prophets when He commanded them to say this to the children of Israel?
Take it one step further. Did God lie when He called homosexuality an abomination punishable by death!

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#14959 May 9, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Saul was a blatant plagiarist of Plato, the Stoics and Philo of Alexandria, whose writings he passed off as divine in origin. He was a false prophet and a false seer. None of his predictions came true in the time frame he posited. He contradicted the Gospel accounts and the words of Yeshua, especially as presented in Matthew. He was both a heretic and apostate.
The Mosaic/Levitical/Deuteronomic code was in no way abrogated nor diminished by Yeshua. But since you think so, why cite it?
You might find this generally interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =tddCNY6U77YXX
Really worth the time. It clarifies Pharisee thinking, Yeshua's relationship to it, AND resolves some apparent contradictions in the doctrinal records of christendom.
Gosh, you really want to believe that, don't you?

A Karaite Jew discounting Jesus and Paul?

The bottom line is that the Disciples accepted Paul as an Apostle.

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#14960 May 9, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, then you have no moral argument, and most likely never will. Or do you want to pretend that you have any objective proof of your version of god?
Pretending that your morals come from God only works if your morals mesh with the actual teachings of that God and they are still only "ethics" from the viewpoint of the worshipers of a different God.
<quoted text>
And your "morals" are exactly the same, shifting as christianity evolves over the years.
<quoted text>
Science has never supported anything you have said.
<quoted text>
Oh, I have the concept. I used to be a xian, until I learned more about what the Bible says. It even drove me away from all religion for a time. Now, I am deeply religious, I just reject false gods like Jesus.
Disproving the Bible, on the other hand, that is easy. One need look at reality and the Bible is disproven.
<quoted text>
Yeah, well, lot's of people need their little fantasies, so you go right on thinking whatever you want.
You are getting down right silly.

-You are asserting that all belief systems have equal validity. A perfect example of how poor your reasoning ability is.

-You are asserting that you know 'my God'. You don't. I am a redeemed cynic who remains barbarian. I simply point out how ignorant and twisted your understanding of Judeo/Christian faith is.

=You are asserting that Christian morals have shifted. No, it hasn't. In fact, most morality and ethics have common roots.

I'm sorry to hear you are religious. I'm not. You are a perfect example of why. Man's ideas about God are limited to their feeble understanding. If I did prove God to you, it is clear you'd be incapable of understanding.

As to the Bible, seems like a whole lot of people over a long time disagree with you. I bring up a simple point of an Alien appearance with profound results, and you can only say 'duh'.

Snicker.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#14961 May 9, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
John 8:44 (NKJV)
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
Saul, Plato and the Stoics:

http://www.worldandi.com/newhome/public/2004/...

Who do you imagine is the author of the passage you cite?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#14962 May 9, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
It does. You are without excuse.
"they are without excuse"
Romans 1:18-20 (NKJV)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
That doesn't even prove itself, much less the existence of a "conscience".

Your Presuppositionalism is getting tiresome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presuppositional...

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#14963 May 9, 2013
OldJG wrote:
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
"abomination"
Leviticus 20:13 (NKJV)
13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.
<quoted text>
The Old Testament Law should not exclusively be used to argue homosexuality is sinful. Why? Because the New Testament also clearly and explicitly states homosexuality is both immoral and unnatural (Romans 1:26-27, I Corinthians 6:9) The New Testament confirms the Old Testament command against homosexuality, explains why the command existed, and argues for why homosexuality should continue to be considered sinful.
What about shrimp? Does God hate shrimp? No. Jesus Himself "declared all foods clean" (Mark 7:19). Jesus later confirmed this in a vision to Peter (Acts 10:15). While the New Testament confirms that homosexuality is sinful, it clearly indicates the food laws to be null and void. God never hated shrimp. Rather, God disallowed the consumption of shrimp to distinguish the Israelites' diet from that of the surrounding nations, and likely due to the fact that since they are bottom-feeders, shrimp are really not very healthy.
Really. Give this a listen. You won't regret the time.



You really do need to keep things in context unless you want to keep sounding like a pharisee.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#14964 May 9, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
"the lake of fire" "tormented" "forever"
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Unimpressive post.

Try again sometime.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#14965 May 9, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
You ask many foolish questions and then justify your ignorance by quoting the Old Testament. Do you know the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant?
Nothing.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#14966 May 9, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you ever read the book of Acts? The book of Acts makes clear, Christians are not obligated to follow this holiness code. This is made clear in Peter's vision in Acts 10:15. Peter is told,'What God has made clean, do not call common.' In other words, there is no kosher code for Christians. Christians are not concerned with eating kosher foods and avoiding all others. That part of the law is no longer binding, and Christians can enjoy shrimp and pork with no injury to conscience.
Written by followers of Saul the heretic, it directly contradicts the words of Yeshua as expressed in Matthew.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#14967 May 9, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Take it one step further. Did God lie when He called homosexuality an abomination punishable by death!
So you support the consequence-less murder of all gay people everywhere?

Why/why not?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#14968 May 9, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Gosh, you really want to believe that, don't you?
A Karaite Jew discounting Jesus and Paul?
The bottom line is that the Disciples accepted Paul as an Apostle.
Smile.
He discounts neither. You didn't listen.

Listen again (more closely this time):


Where is Saul called an "apostle". Which source(s)? Who wrote them?

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