Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against ...

Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

There are 16101 comments on the news.yahoo.com story from Apr 27, 2009, titled Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?. In it, news.yahoo.com reports that:

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at news.yahoo.com.

Since: Mar 09

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#14929 May 9, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The conscience can be defiled by unbelief and impurity.
Titus 1:15
15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
That is not proof that it exists.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#14930 May 9, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
What mass murders? No interpretation needed. The Bible is perfectly clear. Gays will burn in Hell forever.
That's Saul.

We were discussing your interpretation of the Leviticus passage you cited.

As it stands, you support the consequence-less murder of all gay people everywhere.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#14931 May 9, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
That's Saul.
We were discussing your interpretation of the Leviticus passage you cited.
As it stands, you support the consequence-less murder of all gay people everywhere.
Why are you hung up on Paul's name?

I don't support killing of anyone. The Law of Moses was ONLY for Israel.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#14932 May 9, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
What mass murders? No interpretation needed. The Bible is perfectly clear. Gays will burn in Hell forever.
You are, and have been, attempting to take away the Authority of Judgment from God and giving it to the Bible.

BTW, it is darn easy to claim "God Commanded It" after a bloody barbaric battle in which all the opponents, even the children and livestock, are dead.

Also, you ALWAYS completely ignore God's Mercy, Wisdom, and Love.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#14933 May 9, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>You are, and have been, attempting to take away the Authority of Judgment from God and giving it to the Bible.
BTW, it is darn easy to claim "God Commanded It" after a bloody barbaric battle in which all the opponents, even the children and livestock, are dead.
Also, you ALWAYS completely ignore God's Mercy, Wisdom, and Love.
Who is your God? You don't even know. It certainly isn't God of the Bible.

You don't know what Biblical mercy is about. Your Biblical illiteracy noted, again.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#14934 May 9, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you hung up on Paul's name?
I don't support killing of anyone. The Law of Moses was ONLY for Israel.
Saul was a blatant plagiarist of Plato, the Stoics and Philo of Alexandria, whose writings he passed off as divine in origin. He was a false prophet and a false seer. None of his predictions came true in the time frame he posited. He contradicted the Gospel accounts and the words of Yeshua, especially as presented in Matthew. He was both a heretic and apostate.

The Mosaic/Levitical/Deuteronomic code was in no way abrogated nor diminished by Yeshua. But since you think so, why cite it?

You might find this generally interesting:



Really worth the time. It clarifies Pharisee thinking, Yeshua's relationship to it, AND resolves some apparent contradictions in the doctrinal records of christendom.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#14935 May 9, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
That is not proof that it exists.
The existence of the conscience shows that man understands moral decisions.

Romans 2:14-16

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.

15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#14936 May 9, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The existence of the conscience shows that man understands moral decisions.
Romans 2:14-16
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
NONE of that proves it's existence.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#14937 May 9, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Saul was a blatant plagiarist of Plato,
John 8:44 (NKJV)
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#14938 May 9, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The existence of the conscience shows that man understands moral decisions.
Romans 2:14-16
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Now that is fact indeed! Not only conscience, but love and hate.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#14939 May 9, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
NONE of that proves it's existence.
It does. You are without excuse.

"they are without excuse"

Romans 1:18-20 (NKJV)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#14940 May 9, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
"abomination"
Leviticus 20:13 (NKJV)
13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Again: eating shrimp is also an abomination.
Again: collecting firewood on the Sabbath is also a capital offense.
So, homosexuality was just as bad as eating shrimp and collecting firewood on the Sabbath.
Why do you keep quoting OT laws and punishments, by the way? Didn't Jesus ever appear in your Bible?
The Old Testament Law should not exclusively be used to argue homosexuality is sinful. Why? Because the New Testament also clearly and explicitly states homosexuality is both immoral and unnatural (Romans 1:26-27, I Corinthians 6:9) The New Testament confirms the Old Testament command against homosexuality, explains why the command existed, and argues for why homosexuality should continue to be considered sinful.

What about shrimp? Does God hate shrimp? No. Jesus Himself "declared all foods clean" (Mark 7:19). Jesus later confirmed this in a vision to Peter (Acts 10:15). While the New Testament confirms that homosexuality is sinful, it clearly indicates the food laws to be null and void. God never hated shrimp. Rather, God disallowed the consumption of shrimp to distinguish the Israelites' diet from that of the surrounding nations, and likely due to the fact that since they are bottom-feeders, shrimp are really not very healthy.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#14941 May 9, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The existence of the conscience shows that man understands moral decisions.
Romans 2:14-16
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Now that is fact indeed! Not only conscience, but love and hate.
Conscience appears in the garden when Adam and Eve hide from God because they knew they had done wrong in His sight. Yet God came looking for them. They did not go looking for Him.

Genesis 3:8, "And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden."
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#14942 May 9, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, they can. All that is required is a spectrum of favorability of outcomes from given possible choices of actions.
"Right" and "wrong" are just labels we place on actions. But, is the same action necessarily only ever "right" or "wrong?" Is it wrong to shoot a person? Maybe. Maybe not. Is it right to eat another human being? Sometimes. Is child sacrifice to a magical being for which there is no evidence wrong? Ha! Trick question. That involves mental defect (a popular mental defect, but a defect nonetheless). Ethics for the mentally defective are like applying the rules of baseball to the galaxy. You can try, but there's no point to it.
Right or wrong on your terms is relative. Apparently there are no absolute truths for you. Is this correct?

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#14943 May 9, 2013
OldJG wrote:
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
"abomination"
Leviticus 20:13 (NKJV)
13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.
<quoted text>
The Old Testament Law should not exclusively be used to argue homosexuality is sinful. Why? Because the New Testament also clearly and explicitly states homosexuality is both immoral and unnatural (Romans 1:26-27, I Corinthians 6:9) The New Testament confirms the Old Testament command against homosexuality, explains why the command existed, and argues for why homosexuality should continue to be considered sinful.
What about shrimp? Does God hate shrimp? No. Jesus Himself "declared all foods clean" (Mark 7:19). Jesus later confirmed this in a vision to Peter (Acts 10:15). While the New Testament confirms that homosexuality is sinful, it clearly indicates the food laws to be null and void. God never hated shrimp. Rather, God disallowed the consumption of shrimp to distinguish the Israelites' diet from that of the surrounding nations, and likely due to the fact that since they are bottom-feeders, shrimp are really not very healthy.
There are no NT restrictions for eating meat. But the NT condemns gays to Hell.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#14944 May 9, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You do realize that when you shift because your stupidity has been exposed, the only thing that happens is more stupidity is exposed?
What you are missing is, without God, there is NO moral argument.
Well, then you have no moral argument, and most likely never will. Or do you want to pretend that you have any objective proof of your version of god?

Pretending that your morals come from God only works if your morals mesh with the actual teachings of that God and they are still only "ethics" from the viewpoint of the worshipers of a different God.
KiMare wrote:
My assertion was verified that ethics are a chosen, shifting constraint of society, without foundation, and servant of evolution.
And your "morals" are exactly the same, shifting as christianity evolves over the years.
KiMare wrote:
I argue marriage from the same place, and you have no answer, because your supposed god, science supports me.
Science has never supported anything you have said.
KiMare wrote:
You keep wanting to disprove faith, something your depraved being has no concept of.
Oh, I have the concept. I used to be a xian, until I learned more about what the Bible says. It even drove me away from all religion for a time. Now, I am deeply religious, I just reject false gods like Jesus.

Disproving the Bible, on the other hand, that is easy. One need look at reality and the Bible is disproven.
KiMare wrote:
The end result is that faith looks smart, and you look like an idiot.
But hey, I enjoy slinging smart stones at Goliath. Or in this case, fat boy.
Smile.
Yeah, well, lot's of people need their little fantasies, so you go right on thinking whatever you want.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#14945 May 9, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Are we living under the Old Covenant or the New Covenant? Do you know the difference?
There is no difference. The "Old" Covenant is eternal, the "new" covenant is exactly the same as the old, except that the God of the Bible promises to write the Laws of Moses in the hearts of men, so that none will have to study to know them perfectly. Yes, xians like to point to Jeremiah 31:31 and pretend that that somehow proves what they wish,but they ignore the rest of the passage. Quoting out of context is just another form of lying.

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Do try to remember that there are literally DOZENS of verses that repeat the same point over and over again, that the Laws and Commandments are to be followed EXACTLY as written, FOR EVER. Did the God of the Bible lie when He told Moses this? Did He lie to each of the prophets when He commanded them to say this to the children of Israel?

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#14946 May 9, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
"abomination"
Leviticus 20:13 (NKJV)
13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.
Abomination <tow'evah> is ALWAYS used to refer to acts of worship of foreign Gods. Homosexuality is not an abomination, except when it was with a (male) temple prostitute as part of the fertility rituals of Asherah - a VERY popular Goddess among the neighbors of the Israelites. Just look at all of the times that the children of Israel were condemned for raising Asherah poles in the high places. "Homosexuality" is no more a sin than "weeping" is...

Ezekiel 8:13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

Tammuz,of course, was a God of a neighboring people, a died and resurrected God and one of the models used when they later invented the Jesus myth

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#14947 May 9, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you really that ignorant??? Are gays as ignorant as they seem?
Are you?

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#14948 May 9, 2013
Truth wrote:
Realize that morality is to be measured by God's standards and not human criteria for what is right.
And then you can just pick a different God, or pick a different church for a particular God, and bamm! you end up with a whole new set of standards for "morality".

Is owning slaves moral? The Bible says yes*, and many xians used that as justification for the evils of the antebellum South.

* Note: the slavery presented as moral in the Bible was VERY different from the institution of slavery as seen in the American South prior to the Civil War.

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