Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against ...

Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

There are 16101 comments on the news.yahoo.com story from Apr 27, 2009, titled Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?. In it, news.yahoo.com reports that:

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at news.yahoo.com.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#12211 Apr 2, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
John 19:33-35
33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already ~dead,~ they did not break his legs.
34 Instead, <<<<<one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.>>>>>
35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is TRUE.~He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.~
Again, he was in extremis coma (dying). This was due to the primary cause of death by crucifiction: asphyxiation due to cardio-pulmonary congestion; i.e. fluid collecting in the pleural sacs around the lungs, making breathing impossible.

When the soldier's lance pierced the sac, clear congestive fluid mixed with a little blood from the puncture would have drained out, relieving the constriction on one of the lungs. Immediate removal from the cross and lowering of the arms, hurried and jostled transport to the tomb at the other side of Jerusalem would have reduced the congestion on the other lung as well.

Spontaneously coming out of extremis coma, very like death and requiring an EEG to distinguish from actual brain death, does exist in contemporary literature. People actually declared dead by physicians using only a stethoscope have awakened very surprised (and surprising) in morgues. In extremis coma, the heart can beat as seldom a once or twice per minute. Most people just die.

Really, it's not as though they had much in the way of medical knowledge.

For me, none of this diminishes the message of Yeshua in the least.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#12212 Apr 2, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
If there is no bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, we are in trouble!
Redemption is vain - "faith is vain."
Remission is void "yet in your sins....."
There is no redeemed life in us unless there is a risen life.
You see!

That is PRECISELY one of the problems with Saulian heresy.

NONE of that is true!

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#12213 Apr 2, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
What is said about the "natural" man?
Does not receive the things of the Spirit of God.
They are foolishness to him.
He cannot know them for they are spiritually discerned.
The Spiritual man knows how to cooperate with the Holy Spirit.
That is Stoicism.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#12214 Apr 2, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>My apologies, got it bassackwards. That's what I get for working without a net. I should listen to my own advise a little more, it always pays to take notes.
Don't sweat it. The West just had Easter. The East is still in Great Lent.

Since: Dec 09

Chicago, IL

#12215 Apr 2, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
If there is no bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, we are in trouble!
Redemption is vain - "faith is vain."
Remission is void "yet in your sins....."
There is no redeemed life in us unless there is a risen life.
Truth: "If there is no bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, we are in trouble!"

Well, there isn't,.... nope, there was no bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. But you're not in trouble, you just don't understand.
It wasn't His Body that was resurrected, it was His Being; the I Am; He Who Himself is.
That's why the disciples didn't recognize Jesus when He appeared before them after His death and resurrection. He didn't look the same as He did when He was alive. He looked DIFFERENT! If His body had been resurrected, He would've looked the same!
And the reason Christ appeared to men after being "Resurrected", was to assure humankind that there IS "life" after death; that WE WILL NOT CEASE TO EXIST when our physical bodies die!
Yes, your Salvation is guaranteed. Christ WILL save you - from your ignorance, your doubt, and what you deny; from what you wrongly believe, do, think, and say.....
Of course, the more truth you learn about yourself, the less there'll be He'll have to save you from!
But you'd better get busy if you want to glimpse Heaven in this lifetime.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#12219 Apr 2, 2013
janeebee wrote:
<quoted text>
Truth: "If there is no bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, we are in trouble!"
Well, there isn't,.... nope, there was no bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. But you're not in trouble, you just don't understand.
It wasn't His Body that was resurrected, it was His Being; the I Am; He Who Himself is.
That's why the disciples didn't recognize Jesus when He appeared before them after His death and resurrection. He didn't look the same as He did when He was alive. He looked DIFFERENT! If His body had been resurrected, He would've looked the same!
And the reason Christ appeared to men after being "Resurrected", was to assure humankind that there IS "life" after death; that WE WILL NOT CEASE TO EXIST when our physical bodies die!
Yes, your Salvation is guaranteed. Christ WILL save you - from your ignorance, your doubt, and what you deny; from what you wrongly believe, do, think, and say.....
Of course, the more truth you learn about yourself, the less there'll be He'll have to save you from!
But you'd better get busy if you want to glimpse Heaven in this lifetime.
It was a bodily resurrection. They could touch His body and He ate food. All point to a physical body resurrection. To deny this, is to condemn yourself since it would mean that He really did not rise from the dead. I Cor 15:13-19
Owen

Pekin, IL

#12220 Apr 2, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a bodily resurrection. They could touch His body and He ate food. All point to a physical body resurrection. To deny this, is to condemn yourself since it would mean that He really did not rise from the dead. I Cor 15:13-19
The Bible repeatedly condemns all homosexual behavior in the plainest of terms and in both Testaments.

No Christian can ever deny this irrefutable reality!
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#12221 Apr 2, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Revelation is a form of writing called an "apocalypse", which is a form of communicate between communities designed to get beneath the radar of Government censors. It does not mean what you think it means.
It is not a canonical source for instruction.
"apokalupsis"..... "an uncovering," "an unveiling." or "a disclosure"
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#12222 Apr 2, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
One of the very passages that clearly demonstrates that Saul is a heretic. The dualism is from the Stoics and, when combined with the prevalent Zoroastrianism of the region, gave birth to the later Manichaeist heresy.
Obviously, not a suitable source for instruction.
If any borrowing was done, it was quite possibly the other way around (Zoroastrianism borrowed from Judaism/Christianity.}
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#12223 Apr 2, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
One of the very passages that clearly demonstrates that Saul is a heretic. The dualism is from the Stoics and, when combined with the prevalent Zoroastrianism of the region, gave birth to the later Manichaeist heresy.
Obviously, not a suitable source for instruction.
Deuteronomy 18:10

10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the <<<fire,>>> who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,

The Jews are forbidden to have anyone "pass through fire," a practice that Zoroastrianism used and adopted.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#12224 Apr 2, 2013
Owen wrote:
<quoted text>The Bible repeatedly condemns all homosexual behavior in the plainest of terms and in both Testaments.
No Christian can ever deny this irrefutable reality!
I deny and refute your claim David. Your translation of the Bible and your horrible lies and condemnations prove the by your rotten fruit, others will know you.

Since: Mar 12

Milwaukee

#12226 Apr 2, 2013
Owen wrote:
<quoted text>The Bible repeatedly condemns all homosexual behavior in the plainest of terms and in both Testaments.

No Christian can ever deny this irrefutable reality!
By your logic we should ban restaurants from serving meat on Fridays during lent too? Se how ridiculous that sounds!!

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#12227 Apr 2, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
If any borrowing was done, it was quite possibly the other way around (Zoroastrianism borrowed from Judaism/Christianity.}
How did Zoroastrianism borrow from Christianity when it predates Christianity by centuries? Did they have a time machine, travel to the future, borrow from Christianity hundreds of years later, then go back in time to create their religion using what they learned from the future? Or, are you an ignorant halftard?
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#12228 Apr 2, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
How did Zoroastrianism borrow from Christianity when it predates Christianity by centuries? Did they have a time machine, travel to the future, borrow from Christianity hundreds of years later, then go back in time to create their religion using what they learned from the future? Or, are you an ignorant halftard?
Where is your evidence that the authors of the Bible borrowed from Zoroastrianism? Do you have specific examples for us to examine so we can see if this is true or not? After all, why should we trust you has been shown to be ignorant of these things?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#12229 Apr 2, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Where is your evidence that the authors of the Bible borrowed from Zoroastrianism? Do you have specific examples for us to examine so we can see if this is true or not? After all, why should we trust you has been shown to be ignorant of these things?
You said it was more likely that Zoroastrianism borrowed from Christianity. I just want to know why that's more likely. I offered one possibility: time traveling from the past to the future to learn some of the tricks of the trade, then apply them to the new religion getting started up centuries before Christianity. But, if you have a better explanation for Zoroastrianism borrowing from Christianity centuries before Jesus was ever born, I'm sure we'd all like to hear it. You said it was more likely. Is it wrong for me to ask you why? Or, is this "Jeff gets to make shit up" time? And, if so, when is it NOT that time? Because, it would be nice to get a reprieve at some point.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#12230 Apr 2, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Where is your evidence that the authors of the Bible borrowed from Zoroastrianism? Do you have specific examples for us to examine so we can see if this is true or not? After all, why should we trust you has been shown to be ignorant of these things?
"First, the figure of Satan, originally a servant of God, appointed by Him as His prosecutor, came more and more to resemble Ahriman, the enemy of God. Secondly, the figure of the Messiah, originally a future King of Israel who would save his people from oppression, evolved, in Deutero-Isaiah for instance, into a universal Savior very similar to the Iranian Saoshyant. Other points of comparison between Iran and Israel include the doctrine of the millennia; the Last Judgment; the heavenly book in which human actions are inscribed; the Resurrection; the final transformation of the earth; paradise on earth or in heaven; and hell." by J.

http://www.zarathushtra.com/z/article/influen...

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#12231 Apr 2, 2013
janeebee wrote:
<quoted text>
Truth: "If there is no bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, we are in trouble!"
Well, there isn't,.... nope, there was no bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. But you're not in trouble, you just don't understand.
It wasn't His Body that was resurrected, it was His Being; the I Am; He Who Himself is.
That's why the disciples didn't recognize Jesus when He appeared before them after His death and resurrection. He didn't look the same as He did when He was alive. He looked DIFFERENT! If His body had been resurrected, He would've looked the same!
And the reason Christ appeared to men after being "Resurrected", was to assure humankind that there IS "life" after death; that WE WILL NOT CEASE TO EXIST when our physical bodies die!
Yes, your Salvation is guaranteed. Christ WILL save you - from your ignorance, your doubt, and what you deny; from what you wrongly believe, do, think, and say.....
Of course, the more truth you learn about yourself, the less there'll be He'll have to save you from!
But you'd better get busy if you want to glimpse Heaven in this lifetime.
Yes, he did "resurrect" (please note the intentional small "r")..... from extremis coma. He also succumbed finally to his wounds 6-8 weeks later.

Hon ... they began to "see" him IN other people, IN certain words, IN certain viewpoints, IN certain actions. Their perspective on themselves, on others, on intangible personhood, on abstract realities, had all shifted. Yeshua had freed their minds from temple ceremonies and legalistic observances and perspectives.

Even in the Saulian gentile tract "Acts", the story of the Road to Emmaus is not a ghost story. They did NOT see Yeshua in disguise. It WAS just another non-Yeshua person just like themselves. They had the experience of that liberating perspective shift triggered by the breaking of the sabbath loaf at the beginning of the sabbath evening meal. They "saw" the intangible but fundamentally real qualities of the person with them, what their discussions had been, what they were doing. That nooesis was fleeting, so he "disappeared from their sight".

Everything about that experience, and all such experiences, is intangible.

EVERYTHING that Yeshua lived to teach them was expressed in that account. We are fellow travelers. We help each other through the journey. We wash the dust of our travel troubles from one anothers' feet. We share what we have learned, have thought, have dreamed with each other along the way. The Father has a share in our journey together, and at the beginning of the new day we break bread together in love and fellowship, and remember all of our teachers gifts to us, and those of even the grains of wheat in the bread, dying that we might live. A feast of giving and sharing. Not out of ritual or legalistic observances, not in judgement of each other, not in mental apartness ... but one in heartfelt mutuality.

" ... may He raise up his appearance upon you ... "

Look at yourself and others with a forgiving heart, tossing all that stuff aside, look to each other in love. Do this purely and wholeheartedly and you WILL see the face of the Father in every face around you at the wedding feast ... and THEY will see Yeshua's face in yours, hear his words in yours, his actions in yours.

They will see Yeshua breaking the bread of living in your sharing, caring and giving hands.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#12232 Apr 3, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
"apokalupsis"..... "an uncovering," "an unveiling." or "a disclosure"
They WERE the news about others in the movement written to mask the facts from the superstitious Government censors.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#12233 Apr 3, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Deuteronomy 18:10
10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the <<<fire,>>> who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,
The Jews are forbidden to have anyone "pass through fire," a practice that Zoroastrianism used and adopted.
Zoroastrian dualism was very old in Persia, and influenced the thought of the Stoic philosophers of Greece.

Saul was educated at University to be a lawyer. Logic, Platonic Aristotelian governmental theory, and other thought systems were a compulsory part of a legal education.

Saul was a lawyer, ya know. That's how he earned his Roman citizenship. "Tentmaker" is a Koine slang for "lawyer". Saul's followers even play with the imagery when they write about being protected from judgement by being "covered" or clothed by christ's ("casula" "little house or closet", "Omaphorion" in Greek, "Tallit Gadol" in Hebrew) righteousness. He's "got ya covered". lol

Of course, all this is unnecessary in the non-dualistic message of Yeshua.

When a person walks in the door, his shadow is still attached to his heels, and it colors everything he thinks and hears. He will assess and understand everything through the lenses of experience, prior beliefs and the prevailing, pervasive culture.

Gentile converts just "didn't get" Judaism ... any more than you do, it seems.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#12234 Apr 3, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a bodily resurrection. They could touch His body and He ate food. All point to a physical body resurrection. To deny this, is to condemn yourself since it would mean that He really did not rise from the dead. I Cor 15:13-19
That is just the Saulian heresy.

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