Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

Apr 27, 2009 Full story: news.yahoo.com 16,105

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

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Truth

Leesburg, VA

#10691 Mar 21, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you offer ANY proof that they were any less inspired that any other gospel? Do remember that there were many christians that claimed that one or more of these books WAS the truly inspired text, and the one's you worship were NOT...
Proof is in FAITH/BELIEF....

<All> Scripture is <God-breathed> and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

so that the servant of God may be thoroughly <equipped> for every good work.

"God-breathed"...... God breathed through human authors (apostles.)

**********

Above all, you must understand that ~~~~~<NO> prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.~~~~~

For prophecy <NEVER> had its origin in the *will of man,* but [[[[[men SPOKE from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”]]]]]

God’s Word is God-breathed.

It was inspired by him, created by him, given to US!

"Man does NOT live on bread alone, but on <EVERY WORD> that COMES from the <MOUTH OF GOD.”>
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#10692 Mar 21, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, the Bible spells it out quite clearly: repent and sacrifice a goat. If you can't afford a goat, then use a dove. If you can't afford a dove, then some fine flour will do nicely. And if you can't afford THAT, then all that matters is sincerely repenting. Paraphrased directly from Leviticus.
Note: NO Jesus required. In fact, worshiping a false god like Jesus will GUARANTEE that your sins are NOT forgiven!
The sacrifices of animals was done in the Old Testament.....

Jesus was our sacrifice once and for all.....

Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people.

He (Jesus Christ) sacrificed for their sins once for all when he (Jesus Christ) offered himself.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#10693 Mar 21, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, the Bible spells it out quite clearly: repent and sacrifice a goat. If you can't afford a goat, then use a dove. If you can't afford a dove, then some fine flour will do nicely. And if you can't afford THAT, then all that matters is sincerely repenting. Paraphrased directly from Leviticus.
Note: NO Jesus required. In fact, worshiping a false god like Jesus will GUARANTEE that your sins are NOT forgiven!
Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world.

But he (Christ) has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself (Christ.)
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#10694 Mar 21, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, the Bible spells it out quite clearly: repent and sacrifice a goat. If you can't afford a goat, then use a dove. If you can't afford a dove, then some fine flour will do nicely. And if you can't afford THAT, then all that matters is sincerely repenting. Paraphrased directly from Leviticus.
Note: NO Jesus required. In fact, worshiping a false god like Jesus will GUARANTEE that your sins are NOT forgiven!
so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he (Christ) will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but <to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.>
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#10695 Mar 21, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, the Bible spells it out quite clearly: repent and sacrifice a goat. If you can't afford a goat, then use a dove. If you can't afford a dove, then some fine flour will do nicely. And if you can't afford THAT, then all that matters is sincerely repenting. Paraphrased directly from Leviticus.
Note: NO Jesus required. In fact, worshiping a false god like Jesus will GUARANTEE that your sins are NOT forgiven!
The law (Old Testament) is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves.

For this reason it can NEVER, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#10696 Mar 21, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, the dangers of disobedience of man and the sins of man....
Don’t allow Satan to trick you into thinking that God doesn’t really mean what He says.
You've already allowed Satan to trick you into thinking YOU KNOW what God says.

There is no original version of "the" bible on Earth.

What you are reading cannot possibly bee 100% accurate. That is irrefutable fact.

Therefore treating it as if it were the intact Word of God amounts to idol worship. How do you not see that?

It seems to me you don't sincerely want to know what God wants. You just want to take the easy way out and not ever have to think for yourself.

It's a spiritual cop-out.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#10697 Mar 21, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Proof is in FAITH/BELIEF....
<All> Scripture is <God-breathed> and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
so that the servant of God may be thoroughly <equipped> for every good work.
"God-breathed"...... God breathed through human authors (apostles.)
**********
Above all, you must understand that ~~~~~<NO> prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.~~~~~
For prophecy <NEVER> had its origin in the *will of man,* but [[[[[men SPOKE from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”]]]]]
God’s Word is God-breathed.
It was inspired by him, created by him, given to US!
"Man does NOT live on bread alone, but on <EVERY WORD> that COMES from the <MOUTH OF GOD.”>
This is another clear misapplication of principle.

Yes, faith is belief - IN GOD, not in a book that cannot possibly be accurate.

If you want to follow God's word (allegedly) then why isn't it important to you to have an accurate accounting of it?

Answer: you're really not serious.

Recommended: a lot more prayer.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#10698 Mar 21, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
That "command" is NOT found anywhere in the Torah, therefore it is nothing more than a suggestion, at best.
Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.

When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.

Then Jesus came to them and said, <<<“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.>>>

Therefore <GO> and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

<<<and TEACHING them to ~~~OBEY EVERYTHING~~~ I have ***COMMANDED*** you.>>> And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#10699 Mar 21, 2013
obviously "bee" should be "be" in my prior post.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

St. Louis, MO

#10700 Mar 21, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks. I kind of had my own self-imposed "fundie period" also. I get it. I used to listen to Harold Camping every night on my way home from work. And you know what - information and blessings, etc. can come from unlikely places. I'm sure I learned a few things from that source and other sources that were unconventional.
My mother thought I was a nightmare in high school because I temporarily stopped celebrating holidays and refused to say "Merry Christmas" to family members. I refused to participate in Easter one year, and my punishment was they went to Grandma's without me.
I see these people like Lacy similarly to the way I look at myself back then - a kid who thought I knew it all and overdid it. I saw everything as black and white. I thought the bible was infallible (as I was taught.) I blew off the Catholic church because I thought they didn't follow the bible closely enough.
As you grow up in life and in spirit, you temper these things. Less and less can be black and white. There are fewer statements you can say about yourself "I always..." or "I never..." And you also realize, as you continue to study, that Jesus came from a very "common sense" perspective vs. strict following of rules. He made the point that rules serve a purpose, but don't harm yourself trying to follow them.
So, for example, these days I enjoy Christmas and Easter - I just don't consider them to be religious holidays. They are like Valentine's Day or Halloween - a fun party, but having nothing to do with God or Jesus.
But I don't try to put that on others, and I am respectful to people who think differently, and I can still wish someone who celebrates Christmas a Merry Christmas without losing anything myself, just as I would wish someone a Happy Hannukah even though I'm not Jewish.
Point being I get the fundie impulse. But it's a novice stage. Hopefully they'll grow out of it.
Tony, I came to this thread late, and had to go back to when you first told your story. Then I read every post. I found it interesting, informative, and I suppose inspirational to some. Even though I am Agnostic, I am happy for those who are able to reconcile their lives and their religion. Kudos to you and those like you. I only hope you can convince others to quit using it to justify their hatred.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#10701 Mar 21, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.
When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
Then Jesus came to them and said, <<<“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.>>>
Therefore <GO> and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
<<<and TEACHING them to ~~~OBEY EVERYTHING~~~ I have ***COMMANDED*** you.>>> And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
So He didn't tell every person to do that. He told his disciples, whom He had trained, whom He trusted not to misrepresent Him or His message.

You don't qualify for that position.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#10703 Mar 21, 2013
RalphB wrote:
<quoted text>
Tony, I came to this thread late, and had to go back to when you first told your story. Then I read every post. I found it interesting, informative, and I suppose inspirational to some. Even though I am Agnostic, I am happy for those who are able to reconcile their lives and their religion. Kudos to you and those like you. I only hope you can convince others to quit using it to justify their hatred.
Ralph - I think one of the biggest clues someone is a Christian in name only is how the refer to others.

I respect and think I understand your position as an Agnostic, as well as I understand people of other faiths, atheists, etc.

I am in no way threatened by people who hold different beliefs from me (unless they are trying to use them to affect my life via the law, i.e. with anti-gay marriage laws.) I am comfortable in my faith and I know when you meet someone, you are only seeing how they are up to that point. You have no idea where their life will be tomorrow or in ten years (or your own life for that matter.) A bum may become a homeowner; a business owner may become a bum. People change religions, jobs, families, homes, opinions and philosophies throughout their lives.

I am also not of the opinion that I must evangelize, or that I must admonish people who are at different points on their path. I don't think I'm better than other people or they're better than I.

In my experience, and I feel like I have really lived and studied and dug in to life, I didn't realize I had been "witnessing" for years, and I think that is probably the best way things can go.

When you find relative peace - or at least a new perspective that seems to change your outlook on life - you wish your friends and family were in the same space. I see my mother who is such a negative person and wish she could have faith - because that's what worked for me. That may not be her path.

But when friends ask me a question or for advice, or when I was a bartender and heard peoples' problems/confessions for years, if I feel comfortable enough with someone and *if they ask me* I will honestly tell them how I would tackle the problem, and one aspect of that usually involves some kind of prayer and some form of "letting go" and not trying to control what we can't.

In that sense, and others, I see the oft-ignored or misused "best practices" of the Christian/Jesus philosophy to be in line with things that have been proven to work: reducing stress, not trying to keep up with the Joneses, putting love above other things, etc. I call it God, others may just call it coping skills. I believe that what Jesus taught were simply those best practices.

But when my best friend called me one day, maybe 15 years ago, and said, "Hey Ant, you know that stuff you say sometimes about God and everything...I get it now." And she did seem to get it. She seemed to - maybe just basically "grow up." And I realized one day years later that I had been an unwitting "witness" - just via living by example. I had no agenda. I did not convince her. I did not try. If you ask me "I think I'm going to lose my job, what should I do?" then beyond the practical things, I would typically recommend to not get overly hung up on what happens. When one door closes another one opens. There may be a rough patch, but what is waiting for you next may be better. And in my opinion, faith that God has a plan for you helps in the meantime.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#10704 Mar 21, 2013
Apollo11911 wrote:
<quoted text>
Matthew 22(NIV)
The Greatest Commandment
34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied:“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it:‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
a.Matthew 22:37 Deut. 6:5
b.Matthew 22:39 Lev. 19:18
Truth indeed! As is:

"will not inherit the Kingdom of God" "homosexuals"

1 Corinthians 6:9 (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#10706 Mar 21, 2013
I have a question for you fundamentalists judging all the homosexuals to hell here on this thread.

Do you think this cute little bird should be cast into your fiery pit along with all those who deviate from your approved list of acceptable heterosexual behavior because this cute little bird deliberately made an evil choice to be what he/she is ?

After all, according to what you have been insisting here on topix, your god only creates heterosexuals, so anything else is based on the individual choice of the one who dares to contradict your god:

http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/...

Is this cute little bird going to burn in your hell for eternity, or do you think only human hermaphrodites, homosexuals, and bisexuals who make this kind of evil choice to be other than heterosexual are eligible?

*(these are rhetorical questions, I am not interested in your answer. But you should be.)

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#10708 Mar 21, 2013
Grandpasmurf952 wrote:
I have a question for you fundamentalists judging all the homosexuals to hell here on this thread.
That would be God.

"nor homosexuals"

1 Corinthians 6:9 (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#10709 Mar 21, 2013
Apollo11911 wrote:
<quoted text>John 8:7
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Do you have a dump truck full of rocks?
You didn't cite the main phrase by Jesus:

John 8:11 (NKJV)
11 ; go and sin no more."

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#10711 Mar 21, 2013
Apollo11911 wrote:
<quoted text>Yet you missed the entire point.
John 8:7
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Are you with out sin???? Got rocks?
There is a HUGE difference in 'committing a sin' and 'living in sin'.

"nor homosexuals"

1 Corinthians 6:9 (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#10713 Mar 21, 2013
Apollo11911 wrote:
<quoted text>Oh goody a cafeteria christian. Jesus said let you with out a sin cast the first stone. He then told the hooker, stop sinning. You morons think you can sin six days a week, go to church on Sunday ( which is the WRONG day) ask for forgiveness, cut a check for ten percent of your weeks earnings and do it all over again.
God ( your god) sees all sin as the same. He does not rank one more eveil than the others. STOP trowing rocks you idiot.
But your antiChristian opinion is of Satan. Now you know. You are delivered unto Satan in Jesus' Name.

1 Corinthians 5:5 (NKJV)
5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#10714 Mar 21, 2013
Apollo11911 wrote:
<quoted text>Best post ever written on Topix. I give you a standing ovation.
I will modestly suggest that is overstated, but humbly thank you for saying it.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#10715 Mar 21, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
That would be God.
"nor homosexuals"
1 Corinthians 6:9 (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
What did it say before people (not God) changed it to say "homosexuals?"

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