Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

Apr 27, 2009 Full story: news.yahoo.com 16,104

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

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“Watching for Wolves~”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#10670 Mar 20, 2013
CAMPINAS/SP IN 2005 In Campinas, Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a friend. The mother accompanied her to the car
and was so worried about the drunkenness of her friends and she said
to the daughter - holding her hand, who was already seated in the
car: "MY DAUGHTER, GO WITH GOD AND MAY HE PROTECT YOU." She responded: "ONLY IF HE (GOD) TRAVELS IN THE TRUNK, CAUSE INSIDE HERE IT'S ALREADY FULL" Hours later, news came by that they had been
involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died, the car could not be
recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the
trunk was intact. The police said there was no way the trunk could have
remained intact. To their surprise, inside the trunk was a crate of
eggs, none were broken.

“The Final Sacrifice”

Since: Feb 13

Be Blessed

#10671 Mar 20, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really think you can post something I haven't read at least 10 times already?
You're wrong, on more than one level. Just the tone of your posts is wrong. The arrogance in speaking for God is wrong. The assumption that you know God's Word or wish is wrong.
I understand life is easier for you if you choose to believe the bible of your choosing is the intact, inerrant, 100% accurate Word of God. It isn't.
God could have chosen to protect the bible intact, and He didn't. You have to ask yourself why.
I was never lost. I was never a druggie. I didn't have to hit bottom to come to God. I was always a good kid. I always felt close to God. And I learned gradually to trust Him for everything. Faith is its own reward.
The notion that I wanted to or chose to be gay is beyond impossible.
Some of the regulars here are probably sick of hearing my story, but at that age, 12 years old, totally innocent, smart, never in trouble, naïve kid - I prayed for God to break my legs instead of making me gay - if He had to give me some kind of challenge, I wanted an easier one.
I have lived a prayerful life since I was a child - to the point it's unusual. How many little kids voluntarily read the bible from cover to cover, and refuse to allow themselves to read anything else until they finish?(Lord, "Numbers" is tedious.)
I have prayed for many things. In some way or another, the thing was always addressed somehow - maybe not the way I expected, but I felt they were "answered."
Yet I prayed for the next 12 years - from age 12 to 24 - for God to spare me this. I was more serious than you will ever be about anything in your life. During that time, I had no relationship with men of any kind. I lived in total denial. So it was not like I was trying to stop a behavior or habit. Whether or not I ever acted on it, I was gay. I always will be gay.
While I was, again, never "lost" or separate from God, those years were my furthest from Him in one respect: fighting Him about the way He made me was a deficiency in my faith.
And it's a deficiency in yours.
I am the authority on this subject between you and me. You are just guessing.
That is an awesomely honest and heartfelt testimony. Many of us are given a challenge in this lifetime that seems unbearable and insurmountable to test our faith and our willingness to bear the cross we must carry. Yours is different than mine, but I've dealt with mine since young childhood.

God bless you in your walk and challenges in this world! Your relationship with God is yours alone, and no one has the power to change God's plans.

{{{HUGS}}}

>^o^<

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#10672 Mar 20, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
BON SCOTT: The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he sang: "Don't stop me, I'm going down all the way, down the highway to hell". On the 19th of February 1980, Bon Scott was found dead,
he had been choked by his own vomit.
egocentricity.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#10673 Mar 20, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
CAMPINAS/SP IN 2005 In Campinas, Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a friend. The mother accompanied her to the car
and was so worried about the drunkenness of her friends and she said
to the daughter - holding her hand, who was already seated in the
car: "MY DAUGHTER, GO WITH GOD AND MAY HE PROTECT YOU." She responded: "ONLY IF HE (GOD) TRAVELS IN THE TRUNK, CAUSE INSIDE HERE IT'S ALREADY FULL" Hours later, news came by that they had been
involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died, the car could not be
recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the
trunk was intact. The police said there was no way the trunk could have
remained intact. To their surprise, inside the trunk was a crate of
eggs, none were broken.
egotism
You must actually directly talks to, directs, or even does favors for you; yet you, so quickly, will preach that God is no respecter of persons.

Laci, you are verging on mental illness.
Seek help.

Since: Mar 07

Drakes Branch, VA

#10675 Mar 20, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
<quoted text>No....you were just trying to defend the murdering of babies. You want to express a lot...... most of it not worth reading. You know how I feel about this. I am pro-life and you are pro-choice. Guess what? Jesus is pro-life as well.
Abortion is a heterosexual thing. Thank goodness so many gay couples adopt so many unwanted children. I personally know several families that adopted older children out of foster care, some with challenging mental and emotional issues.

And yet, you don't want those kids to have married parents, ever though you know it would provide even more protection and security for them.

Sad, that.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#10677 Mar 20, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
<quoted text>Tony there are ppl who have turned to God with all their hearts and asked God to help them and He has........If you really look back to your past there would be some kind of factor that influenced.....this spirit to attack you. It is a spirit Tony and there is deliverance from it. God is faithful to us when we seek Him with our hearts. When we are willing to deny what we want to do and seek His will for our lives....His will for you is a good one.
We live in a day that you won't find many Christians that will be so bold to call this sin but, it is. The popular thing is to embrace it and agree with same sex marriage and a gay lifestyle. However, it is not a wise thing to do and God's ppl know this. It is much easier to talk about God loving gays( He does) and that He made them that way. It is a grave insult to God and any Christian that proclaims that deadly lie. They are lying of the Righteous God of Heaven.
Wow, you are really crazy, and it's amazing you think you know what God wants.

First of all, it is no "spirit" and I was never attacked.

As I already stated, I've been close to God ever since I was a child. I'm the last one who is going to get "attacked." I'm solid.

You said: "When we are willing to deny what we want to do and seek His will for our lives..."

...and you're almost right except you're looking at it backwards. I DID deny what I "wanted" in a way, for TWELVE YEARS, beginning as a child of 12 years old, and not allowing myself to have any kind of contact with a man until I could be sure it was OK with God. Seriously. That wasn't until I was 24. So I have absolutely no problem "denying what I want to do" and seeking God's will. That is the story of my life.

But the backwards part is this, and this is what did not "click" for me until I was 24 (during prayer, btw):

What *I wanted* was to be straight. So trying to be straight, and praying for 12 years for God to make me straight - that was what *I wanted* but that was NOT "seeking God's will for my life." That was me praying for MY will to be done rather than THY will be done. Do you get it? I realized what I was doing, mid-prayer, and immediately apologized to God for stubbornly fighting Him for so long - for insisting, begging, demanding, asking for Him to change me to what *I wanted* but not what He wanted, not the way He made me.

I apologized because that was a weakness in my faith that made me doubt and made me listen to THE WORLD which was telling me there was something wrong with me.(Just like you are doing now.)

And let me tell you something, you cannot live your life to His glory when you are hiding yourself 24 hours a day. You cannot be productive to the fullest. You cannot be happy. You are throwing away the life He gave you in the form of the big lie - hiding and convincing yourself you are not gay. I wasted 12 years begging God to do something He would never do, will never do, and has never done.

Can He? Of course He can. But He won't. God can also change a pig into a horse if you need to ride one, but no matter how much you pray over that pig, God isn't going to change it. God knows better. He made that animal what it was meant to be.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#10678 Mar 20, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
You can have your victory when you reach out to God and take His hand......give up your will and embrace His.. He can make your life shine with His glory.
For you.......I really feel like God told me to send this to you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =BRlVs1Q-WTYXX
It is YOU who must give up YOUR will. You are the one who is wrong here.

And stop pretending you are important and God is making you tell us things. That's nonsense. God would no more want you representing Him than I would want the Westboro Baptist Church representing me.

Hopefully He will open your eyes one day as He did mine. You, ma'am, are spiritually lost.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#10679 Mar 20, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Tony....
Sin cannot enter heaven....
You will not have a spiritual journey if you are still in sin....
You cannot continue in sin and expect to get to heaven or have a spiritual journey.....
Think about it....God HATES sin that is why Jesus came to earth to be sacrificed!!!
You say these things and yet my very life disproves them.

I live a wonderful, blessed, God-focused life. There is no disputing that.

He brought me together with my husband when we were both ready. There is no disputing that.

I am where I am supposed to be. I have never been more content, more peaceful, or closer to God. If I died tomorrow, I'm happy. And I have no fear of that or of what will happen after.

You should have such peace. It's obvious you don't or you wouldn't be here doing what you're doing.

You have a long way to go.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#10680 Mar 20, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>'Truth':
I need no religious instruction from you.
Have a nice life.
Well put! I could learn from your brevity and conciseness.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#10681 Mar 20, 2013
snyper wrote:
Sidebar:
"Tony C", not everyone was called to be a mendicant. That's only for a very special job.
I doubt that you're falling short in much of anything at all.
Keep leading from your heart, and keep it real.
Thanks.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#10682 Mar 20, 2013
Happy Easter Sock wrote:
<quoted text>
That is an awesomely honest and heartfelt testimony. Many of us are given a challenge in this lifetime that seems unbearable and insurmountable to test our faith and our willingness to bear the cross we must carry. Yours is different than mine, but I've dealt with mine since young childhood.
God bless you in your walk and challenges in this world! Your relationship with God is yours alone, and no one has the power to change God's plans.
{{{HUGS}}}
>^o^<
Thanks.:)

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#10683 Mar 20, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
Well put! I could learn from your brevity and conciseness.
Tony, I have been reading your posts, and I find you to be completely solid and grounded in both your life and your beliefs.

I have had a long life so far to get me to this point I am at now.
Still learning and growing, however.
I just ask God to be with me along the way.
:)

As for folks like RR, Laci, etc., I was once much like them; I was reared to be like them.
It took life/people/enlightenment to set me on a path toward who I am now.

I enjoy your posts, Tony.
To share your life and thoughts takes great character and inner strength.
I have learned from you, and I am sure others have as well.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#10684 Mar 20, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Tony, I have been reading your posts, and I find you to be completely solid and grounded in both your life and your beliefs.
I have had a long life so far to get me to this point I am at now.
Still learning and growing, however.
I just ask God to be with me along the way.
:)
As for folks like RR, Laci, etc., I was once much like them; I was reared to be like them.
It took life/people/enlightenment to set me on a path toward who I am now.
I enjoy your posts, Tony.
To share your life and thoughts takes great character and inner strength.
I have learned from you, and I am sure others have as well.
Thanks. I kind of had my own self-imposed "fundie period" also. I get it. I used to listen to Harold Camping every night on my way home from work. And you know what - information and blessings, etc. can come from unlikely places. I'm sure I learned a few things from that source and other sources that were unconventional.

My mother thought I was a nightmare in high school because I temporarily stopped celebrating holidays and refused to say "Merry Christmas" to family members. I refused to participate in Easter one year, and my punishment was they went to Grandma's without me.

I see these people like Lacy similarly to the way I look at myself back then - a kid who thought I knew it all and overdid it. I saw everything as black and white. I thought the bible was infallible (as I was taught.) I blew off the Catholic church because I thought they didn't follow the bible closely enough.

As you grow up in life and in spirit, you temper these things. Less and less can be black and white. There are fewer statements you can say about yourself "I always..." or "I never..." And you also realize, as you continue to study, that Jesus came from a very "common sense" perspective vs. strict following of rules. He made the point that rules serve a purpose, but don't harm yourself trying to follow them.

So, for example, these days I enjoy Christmas and Easter - I just don't consider them to be religious holidays. They are like Valentine's Day or Halloween - a fun party, but having nothing to do with God or Jesus.

But I don't try to put that on others, and I am respectful to people who think differently, and I can still wish someone who celebrates Christmas a Merry Christmas without losing anything myself, just as I would wish someone a Happy Hannukah even though I'm not Jewish.

Point being I get the fundie impulse. But it's a novice stage. Hopefully they'll grow out of it.

Since: Dec 09

Chicago, IL

#10685 Mar 20, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, go with that assumption, that the God of the Bible did not lie when He gave the Laws to Moses. Does that include the numerous verses that say that the Laws are to be followed without any change for ever? I would argue that yes, all of those verses are included.
But christianity comes along, and almost immediately Paul starts telling people that it is just fine to ignore all of those Laws that were supposed to be for ever.
So, there are only two possibilities: God lied when He said that the Laws are for ever, or Paul lied when he said that people can ignore the Laws. Okay, perhaps Paul didn't "lie" per se, maybe he was just horribly confused and seriously wrong.
Liam: "So, there are only two possibilities: God lied when He said that the Laws are for ever, or Paul lied when he said that people can ignore the Laws."

OR,... could it be Moses mistakenly THOUGHT the Laws God had given him to deal with his immediate situation were forevermore enacted?
I hope you don't mind my suggesting a third possibility.

Since: Oct 07

Aberdeen, UK

#10686 Mar 20, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Just delivering my soul.
Ezekiel 33:9 (NKJV)
9 Nevertheless if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.
what gospel is this you preach ? forget Jesus Christ our saviour and deliverer just warn the wicked and your soul is delevered?

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#10687 Mar 21, 2013
loveismygoal wrote:
<quoted text>what gospel is this you preach ? forget Jesus Christ our saviour and deliverer just warn the wicked and your soul is delevered?
Why do you keep asking Biblically ignorant questions? Are you a Christian? Do you even know?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#10688 Mar 21, 2013
janeebee wrote:
<quoted text>
Liam: "So, there are only two possibilities: God lied when He said that the Laws are for ever, or Paul lied when he said that people can ignore the Laws."
OR,... could it be Moses mistakenly THOUGHT the Laws God had given him to deal with his immediate situation were forevermore enacted?
I hope you don't mind my suggesting a third possibility.
No to the first, and yes to the second.

First remember that those "laws" were a contract between the Father and the children of Israel.

Second, remember too that some of those "laws" were not the result of prophetic utterences, but added by Moshe and others. The accounts record that Yeshua said so ... explicitly.

Third, remember that Saul was a thoroughly hellenized diaspora pharisee who taught Platonic and Stoic philosophy as if it were yeshua/s teachings, and began the terrible shift of focus from Yeshua's message to Yeshua himself ... with disastrous results.

Again, here's an easy read that demonstrates much of this.

http://www.worldandi.com/newhome/public/2004/...
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#10689 Mar 21, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Is genocide worse than homosexuality? Well, of course not. Your God condones and commands genocides.
Is slavery worse than homosexuality? Well, of course not. Your God condones and commands slavery.
Is human sacrifice worse than homosexuality? Well, of course not. Your God condones and accepts human sacrifice in exchange for favors.
Is infanticide worse than homosexuality? Well, of course not. Your God condones and commands infanticide.
Is murder worse than homosexuality? Well, of course not. Your God condones and commands murder.
Is rape worse than homosexuality? Well, of course not. Your God punishes rapists by letting them purchase their victims and marry them.
Hm...that whole "ultimate moral authority" thing doesn't seem to hold water.
How's that legally valid justification for prohibiting same-sex marriage coming along?
Oh, the dangers of disobedience of man and the sins of man....

Don’t allow Satan to trick you into thinking that God doesn’t really mean what He says.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#10690 Mar 21, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it was the will of the Romans, who got rather upset with anyone that they thought might be inciting the crowds into unrest. Especially around the time of the Feast of Passover.
Fun fact for the day: observation of the Feast of Passover is a COMMANDMENT to be observed FOR EVER...
The Passover was held every year in celebration of God having "passed over" the children of Israel during the last of the 10 plagues which God delivered to Egypt as the result of Pharaoh’s <disobedience> to the will of God as delivered to him by Moses and Aaron, to free the Jewish Nation from slavery after more than 400 years of captivity, bondage, and slavery.

The same God who delivered them has delivered us!

The same God who delivered His people from the bondage of Pharaoh and the affliction of slavery has delivered us from sin!

Jesus is the Passover Lamb.

Now, asked yourself this question:

"Is He <MY> Passover Lamb?"
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#10691 Mar 21, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you offer ANY proof that they were any less inspired that any other gospel? Do remember that there were many christians that claimed that one or more of these books WAS the truly inspired text, and the one's you worship were NOT...
Proof is in FAITH/BELIEF....

<All> Scripture is <God-breathed> and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

so that the servant of God may be thoroughly <equipped> for every good work.

"God-breathed"...... God breathed through human authors (apostles.)

**********

Above all, you must understand that ~~~~~<NO> prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.~~~~~

For prophecy <NEVER> had its origin in the *will of man,* but [[[[[men SPOKE from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”]]]]]

God’s Word is God-breathed.

It was inspired by him, created by him, given to US!

"Man does NOT live on bread alone, but on <EVERY WORD> that COMES from the <MOUTH OF GOD.”>

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