Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

Apr 27, 2009 Full story: news.yahoo.com 16,104

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

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“Seriously guys...”

Since: May 12

Regina

#10629 Mar 20, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Never said He spoke English, DUH!
I never claimed you said He did, DUH! If you have ANY intellectual honesty about you whatsoever, then just answer the question.
What language(s) did Jesus speak?

You have been idiotically insisting that your ENGLISH Bible says I'm wrong, yet not one, single person who wrote the original texts wrote or spoke English. Hell, it didn't even exist as a language yet.
The word "homosexual" didn't even become part of the English lexicon until the late 1700s-early 1800s.

I guess it's time to put on my teacher's hat, AGAIN!

The Greek word arsenokitei (arseno-KEE-tay)(the form used in 1 Timothy is arsenokiteis [arseno-KEE-tays]), is formed by combining the noun arsin, which means male, with the construction kit-, a derivative of the verb kimei, which means lie down. Combined, the word refers to people who lie down with males. What remains to be determined is whether the word is referring to males lying with males, or females lying with males. Ordinarily, to determine if a Greek noun is masculine or feminine, one looks at it in the nominative case with the definite article. For example, o adhelfos, the brother, is in the nominative case, and both the os ending and the definite article o tell us the noun is masculine. But the word used in these two verses presents a small challenge to us, because in ancient literature, it never appears with a definite article.(In fact, outside these two passages, it never appears at all!)
The last two letters of the word in 1 Corinthians, and the last three in 1 Timothy, are where we need to look first. Greek nouns are declined according to case. That is, the ending of a noun changes to indicate how the word is being used in the sentence. We have something similar in English pronouns: We use the word I as a subject, but me as an object. For all intents and purposes, I and me mean the same thing. But it is incorrect to say Me want a book, or Give I a book. In 1 Corinthians, the word is in the nominative case, and the ending is clearly a feminine ending. This would suggest that the word is referring to women lying with males. In 1 Timothy, the word is in the dative case, which in English corresponds to putting the word to before the noun.(Example: Give the book TO ME.) And again, the ending is feminine. Even without the definite article to prove the point, the evidence so far suggests that Paul was speaking about women when he used this word, not men.
There are two other pieces of evidence to weigh. First, when properly translated, Scripture contains no prior condemnation of homosexuality, and the Hebrew Old Testament contains the record of two same-sex marriages, neither condemned by God. Paul, as a Jewish scholar, could not have been ignorant of this. So for him to suddenly, and without precedent, introduce a condemnation of homosexuality, without a word of explanation, would make absolutely no sense, and would have created an uproar in the early churches. Church history documents that same-sex marriages existed, and continued, in the Christian church up until around the 13th or 14th century.

Education > dogma

“Watching for Wolves~”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#10630 Mar 20, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>'Truth':
I need no religious instruction from you.
Have a nice life.
You do but you are to rebellious to take any good advice........from anyone with the exception of Sinning Seen.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#10631 Mar 20, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
<quoted text>You do but you are to rebellious to take any good advice........from anyone with the exception of Sinning Seen.
Seen and I never discuss faith/religion, or haven't you noticed?
Your post here greatly exposes you as being the sinner.

Stop playing God.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#10632 Mar 20, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
<quoted text>You do but you are to rebellious to take any good advice........from anyone with the exception of Sinning Seen.
Do you believe that Jesus was a practicing Jew?
He surely quoted from the Torah many times.

And, when you answer, remember the words of Jesus here:

Matthew 5:17

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Do you believe that Jesus, during His lifetime, observed the Law?

“The Topix Legend of "GS"!”

Since: Sep 10

Yunited States, North America

#10633 Mar 20, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Seen and I never discuss faith/religion, or haven't you noticed?
Your post here greatly exposes you as being the sinner.
Stop playing God.
I have noticed and pointed it out Nettie however I expect no less from you considering you are as agnostic as I am.

“The Topix Legend of "GS"!”

Since: Sep 10

Yunited States, North America

#10634 Mar 20, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Do you believe that Jesus was a practicing Jew?
He surely quoted from the Torah many times.
And, when you answer, remember the words of Jesus here:
Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Do you believe that Jesus, during His lifetime, observed the Law?
No I don't believe jesus followed the law because he was crucified.

“The Topix Legend of "GS"!”

Since: Sep 10

Yunited States, North America

#10635 Mar 20, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text> Stop playing God.
Stop pretending to be a Christian.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#10636 Mar 20, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
That, like all Saulian heresy, is in direct contradiction of the recorded words of Yeshua.
More Satanic lies.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#10637 Mar 20, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
How many times has that approach brought someone to Christ?
Someone can only be saved when he realizes he/she is depraved.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#10638 Mar 20, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
"The Word of Paul."
Dismissed.
NEXT
Should we believe you or Paul? I'll stick with what God said.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#10639 Mar 20, 2013
Whisgean Zoda wrote:
You have been idiotically insisting that your ENGLISH Bible says I'm wrong, yet not one, single person who wrote the original texts wrote or spoke English.
Totally irrelevant. If you are a Greek , Aramaic and Hebrew expert then tell us of your credentials. If you know what language Jesus spoke fill us in.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#10640 Mar 20, 2013
Romans Road wrote:
<quoted text>
When a person gets saved they become a NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST! If a person never became a NEW CREATURE, then they probably were never truly saved. Salvation isn't just repeating a prayer someone told you to say, it's a powerful life changing experience. You know the exact moment you got saved.
Why do think Bible Believing Christians always say: I know that I know that I know that I know that I'm saved?
Funny thing, that...

Koran believing Muslims say that too.
Sutra believing Buddhists say it as well.
Hindus, Shintoists, Pagans, and... well pretty much about EVERY faith has people who say that they KNOW that they have the "One True Path"(tm) and everyone else therefore MUST be wrong. Gee, they all sound just like you.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#10641 Mar 20, 2013
Oscar Wilde_ wrote:
<quoted text>Prohibition? Now, that requires a irect act to prevent something that was at once legally recognized.
First, it IS legally recognized in various states in the country, as well as many other countries. Second, prohibition needn't be against something that was previously allowed under the law. Anything that is against the law is prohibited. It's merely a formal forbiddance. Murder? Prohibited. Unless your argument is that murder was once a legal act, you must admit the error of your fundamental premise.
Oscar Wilde_ wrote:
So, firs you identify a single legally valid justification for same sex marriage, which would not be inclusive of same sex polygamy, same sex incest, same sex pedophilia, and adult incest between a daughter age 45 and dad age 65. While you are at it, give us a legally justifiable reason for same sex marriage, without logically excluded same sex pet bestiality and parental incest with child.
Before, you say consent, do you mean legal consent, because that requires a legal definition and application of the law based on social construct.
I do believe that you were not really seeking an answer.
As for the rest of this post, as it's based upon a faulty premise, the arguments that are built from it are equally faulty, and thus unworthy of discussion.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#10642 Mar 20, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Three Little Bears? Now that would be doing something more would it not? Three Little Bears is far more entertaining than six Bible passages.
Think so? Try having a naked gal rest her head on you stomach while reading Song of Solomon...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#10643 Mar 20, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you quote from the Kindergarten Bible?
Does it have pop ups?
Were the giraffes on the top deck or bottom on the ark? Which one was the poop deck?
By the beginning of the second day, they were ALL the poop deck.
:)

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#10644 Mar 20, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
We are the creation of God.....
Homosexuality takes what God created as natural and turning it in to unnatural.......
Jesus never shifted His focus from His message of Godís good news that people could be forgiven of their sins and eternally right with Him.
Is genocide worse than homosexuality? Well, of course not. Your God condones and commands genocides.

Is slavery worse than homosexuality? Well, of course not. Your God condones and commands slavery.

Is human sacrifice worse than homosexuality? Well, of course not. Your God condones and accepts human sacrifice in exchange for favors.

Is infanticide worse than homosexuality? Well, of course not. Your God condones and commands infanticide.

Is murder worse than homosexuality? Well, of course not. Your God condones and commands murder.

Is rape worse than homosexuality? Well, of course not. Your God punishes rapists by letting them purchase their victims and marry them.

Hm...that whole "ultimate moral authority" thing doesn't seem to hold water.

How's that legally valid justification for prohibiting same-sex marriage coming along?

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#10645 Mar 20, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus had to die for our sins was out of obedience to God the Father.
Jesus prayed there (Garden of Gethsemane) for God to let this cup pass through him, yet not his will, but <Godís be done.>
It was Godís will that Jesus die.
No, it was the will of the Romans, who got rather upset with anyone that they thought might be inciting the crowds into unrest. Especially around the time of the Feast of Passover.

Fun fact for the day: observation of the Feast of Passover is a COMMANDMENT to be observed FOR EVER...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#10646 Mar 20, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You wrote:
Gospel according to Thomas or maybe Peter or even Mary Magdalene
These books are NOT inspired....why read something that is NOT inspired???
Can you offer ANY proof that they were any less inspired that any other gospel? Do remember that there were many christians that claimed that one or more of these books WAS the truly inspired text, and the one's you worship were NOT...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#10647 Mar 20, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
What people do seem to understand/accept is...there will be NO sin in heaven.....
Everyone is a sinner....
Spiritually...how do we become clean/pure without sin???
Well, the Bible spells it out quite clearly: repent and sacrifice a goat. If you can't afford a goat, then use a dove. If you can't afford a dove, then some fine flour will do nicely. And if you can't afford THAT, then all that matters is sincerely repenting. Paraphrased directly from Leviticus.

Note: NO Jesus required. In fact, worshiping a false god like Jesus will GUARANTEE that your sins are NOT forgiven!

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#10648 Mar 20, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Gospel = good news....
News about what???
Jesus Christ and His death, burial and resurrection.....
We are COMMANDED to bring the gospel to the whole world....
That "command" is NOT found anywhere in the Torah, therefore it is nothing more than a suggestion, at best.

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