Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

Apr 27, 2009 | Posted by: SongBookz | Full story: news.yahoo.com

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

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#7486
Feb 23, 2013
 

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snyper wrote:
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Already came and went.
Dead ahead. You've been warned.
Russ

Pekin, IL

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#7487
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snyper wrote:
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Already came and went.
*ALL* Bible translations and ancient texts support the Bible's many commands against all homosexual behavior, as do Christian, Jewish, and Muslim tradition.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

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Fort Lauderdale FL

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#7488
Feb 23, 2013
 

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dollarsbill wrote:
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Should we believe you or the Bible?
Show me the original bible or you have no bible.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

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#7489
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dollarsbill wrote:
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I gave you the Biblical answer that you reject. Your problem.
You gave no answer.

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North Hollywood, CA

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Sola Scriptura wrote:
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Atheists cannot fathom that truth. They have to pigeonhole Christianity so they can keep thinking they understand it. That is why they freak out when told it is not a religion. They have no concept of a personal relationship with God since they do not believe in Him.
I don't freak out. I just wonder what you get out of denying such an obvious truth, the truth that Christianity is a religion. Do you just want to make it seem unique among religions? I'm sure all, well many, people of various faiths feel they have personal relationship with god. I doubt people who yell, "God is great!" just before blowing themselves up along with innocent people feel their belief in god is just theoretical.

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#7491
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Sola Scriptura wrote:
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lost soul like you isn't expected to understand.
Typical personal attack instead of an attempt to explain.
Quit dodging, I'm not the only one reading this forum.

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#7492
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Sola Scriptura wrote:
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Religion has rules and regulations, the very thing Christ confronted the Pharisees about.
What do you get out of being so ignorant?
So, I don't have to accept Jesus in order to get into heaven, right? Because if I do, that would be a rule.

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#7493
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dollarsbill wrote:
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No proof.
No proof?
This is what the buy-bull says. Anybody can look it up.

Genesis 1:5: "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

And there we have night and day. It's clearly not just a "period of time" as some funides will excuse. It mentions light and darkness as day and night.

God doesn't make the sun until Genesis 1:16:
"And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."

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#7494
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dollarsbill wrote:
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Bible haters are consistent. Insults and ZERO facts.
People don't necessarily hate the Bible because they disagree with what you do with it.

“No Allah: know peace”

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A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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No Surprise wrote:
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You're going to have to give me as un-biased of one or more links as you possibly can to this information that Israelite men could have multiple spouses as in men and women. I have read much on Jews and polygamy and have read they could have five wives or more if they could afford it.
But I haven't seen just the word "spouses" used by rabbis in their translations of older languages the OT came down through when speaking of polygamous marriages. Wife and wives are used. And they usually denote the female of the human specie, not the male.
I understand a want to read into the Bible what isn't there. I have done it at times in different discussions but I make sure to state this is my opinion.
The Bible never once validates a same sex romantic relationship to the capacity that people wish to believe exists in the Bible. Only once is it written in the OT of God stating what relationship he expected of humans and for why. It had nothing to do with prejudice or bias etc.
According to the Bible (and according to science) a female and a male came to be for the purpose of multiplying the human specie. According to the Bible, God created it that way for his own purpose. He could have made us all a-sexual so at a point of time in our lives, each of us could give birth to off spring without the need of a partner.
But it isn't that way. According to the Bible, God created a man and a woman so they would be one flesh(intercourse)and multiply more of themselves so spirits would have a body to take possession of and use. He gave that as a commandment.
He left it up to us to obey that commandment or to not obey it regardless of attraction and or sexual orientation.
Now, I do have to say that using the term "spouses" was my own choice and not strictly from the Bible. However, the Bible only mentions one gay marriage, that of David and Johnathan, and it also talks about them have wives as well as each other, so my point is fully within the teachings of the Bible, merely updating the language.

Breeding is not an issue, and it has not been an issue for centuries. Back when the Bible was written, yes, a single prolonged famine could utterly destroy an entire people: breeding early and often was important. but we do not live in a hand to mouth marginal agricultural society any more.

Then too, we need to stay grounded in reality. Humans evolved in a species that reproduces sexually through two genders.

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dollarsbill wrote:
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Why? They won't help on Judgment Day.
Pascal's Wager?

“ WOOF !”

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Rose_NoHo wrote:
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So, I don't have to accept Jesus in order to get into heaven, right? Because if I do, that would be a rule.
According to Christian theology, in order to get to heaven, you must accept Jesus Of Nazareth as The Saviour. According to Christian theology, if you do NOT believe that, then you CANNOT be saved.

I'm a Christian.

Do I believe that ?

Yes, I do.

“Think for Yourself”

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Fa-Foxy wrote:
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According to Christian theology, in order to get to heaven, you must accept Jesus Of Nazareth as The Saviour. According to Christian theology, if you do NOT believe that, then you CANNOT be saved.
I'm a Christian.
Do I believe that ?
Yes, I do.
I'm quite certain that some Christians will ask you how you can consider yourself to be a Christian when you are a racist!

“God Loves Ilks!”

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Fa-Foxy:

Here is a bit of Christian theology you might have missed:
he Church and non-Christians
839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329
840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330
842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:
All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city...331
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION
----------
"the mainline Catholic interpretation of Vatican II can be recapped this way:“Followers of other religions can find salvation, but such salvation is found finally and fully in Christ and his church.”[14] In this manner, Catholics believe that because salvation comes through Jesus Christ via the Church, Catholics have an obligation and duty to proclaim the Christian faith and seek converts. On the other hand, because God desires the salvation of all people, his grace is at work outside the Church, leading people who remain in other religions to be nevertheless “incorporated” into the Church in various ways."
----------
"In this respect, we should attentivelly examine the saying - correct in itself - that each one should live according to his own conscience. The conscience does not say different things to each one; rather it says the same to all: love without self-sufficiency. This is equivalent to those basic Christian dispositions that the New Covenant calls 'pistis'[faith] and 'agape [love].' It is the presence of these dispositions that distinguishes the 'anonymous Christians'(Rahner) from the pagans, while the absence of these dispositions characterizes hidden pagans from many Christians. One who has these dispositions has the 'essence of Christianity' and saves himself."
http://www.traditioninaction.org/Progressivis...

“ WOOF !”

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#7505
Feb 23, 2013
 

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Nettiebelle wrote:
Fa-Foxy:
Here is a bit of Christian theology you might have missed:
he Church and non-Christians
839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329
840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330
842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:
All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city...331
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION
----------
"the mainline Catholic interpretation of Vatican II can be recapped this way:“Followers of other religions can find salvation, but such salvation is found finally and fully in Christ and his church.”[14] In this manner, Catholics believe that because salvation comes through Jesus Christ via the Church, Catholics have an obligation and duty to proclaim the Christian faith and seek converts. On the other hand, because God desires the salvation of all people, his grace is at work outside the Church, leading people who remain in other religions to be nevertheless “incorporated” into the Church in various ways."
----------
"In this respect,[edited for length]....of Christianity' and saves himself."
http://www.traditioninaction.org/Progressivis...
As a Protestant born and rasied, who still attends a Protestant church each Sunday, I TOTALLY REJECT nearly ALL things the Roman Catholic Church teaches and says about ANYTHING. They are of no consequence to me whatsover.
LowellGuy

Carteret, NJ

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Russ wrote:
<quoted text>*ALL* Bible translations and ancient texts support the Bible's many commands against all homosexual behavior, as do Christian, Jewish, and Muslim tradition.
Same goes for marrying a rape victim to her attacker. There's a good standard for your argument. No legally valid justifications for prohibiting same-sex marriage, eh?
LowellGuy

Carteret, NJ

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Feb 23, 2013
 

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Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
According to Christian theology, in order to get to heaven, you must accept Jesus Of Nazareth as The Saviour. According to Christian theology, if you do NOT believe that, then you CANNOT be saved.
I'm a Christian.
Do I believe that ?
Yes, I do.
Do you agree that this constitutes a rule? If so, Wayne here says you ain't a REAL Christian.
LowellGuy

Carteret, NJ

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#7509
Feb 23, 2013
 

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Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
As a Protestant born and rasied, who still attends a Protestant church each Sunday, I TOTALLY REJECT nearly ALL things the Roman Catholic Church teaches and says about ANYTHING. They are of no consequence to me whatsover.
Right. Your Jesus can beat up their Jesus. Do you understand that looking down upon someone for eating dogshit while you are eating catshit is retarded?

“ WOOF !”

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#7511
Feb 23, 2013
 

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LowellGuy wrote:
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Do you agree that this constitutes a rule? If so, Wayne here says you ain't a REAL Christian.
The ONLY things necessary to be a Christian, according to my Lutheran faith, is to be baptized and to believe that Jesus Of Nazareth IS the Promised Messiah and that ONLY thru belief in that, can you be saved.

If you are baptized and believe in Jesus of Nazareth as your Saviour, then you are, by definition, a Christian. That is according to my Lutheran faith.

“God Loves Ilks!”

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Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
As a Protestant born and rasied, who still attends a Protestant church each Sunday, I TOTALLY REJECT nearly ALL things the Roman Catholic Church teaches and says about ANYTHING. They are of no consequence to me whatsover.
Food for thought:

If you follow and believe in the New Testament, you are believing in and following a Catholic document.

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