Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against ...

Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

There are 16102 comments on the news.yahoo.com story from Apr 27, 2009, titled Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?. In it, news.yahoo.com reports that:

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at news.yahoo.com.

“Jesus=only way into Heaven”

Since: Nov 12

saved by grace through faith

#6072 Feb 14, 2013
tickedoffchic wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!!! You fundies always come up with the most ridiculous sources.
I credit my sources when I copy/paste......unlike so many of the Topix plagiarizing unbeliever trolls.

“Reality bites”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#6073 Feb 14, 2013
His-truth wrote:
<quoted text>
ain't in my Bible
The two books of Peter?

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#6074 Feb 14, 2013
Romans Road wrote:
<quoted text>
I credit my sources when I copy/paste......unlike so many of the Topix plagiarizing unbeliever trolls.
Now, now! You're bearing false witness, again!
Neil Andblowme

Hoboken, NJ

#6075 Feb 14, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Silly child, any reputable scholar would agree with most of my points. Yes, xianity has had billions of followers over the years, but reality is not a popularity contest. The facts do not change no matter how many ignorant folks wish otherwise.
Oh, and the only places that even attempt to teach anything like Biblical inerrency are those few places that place doctrinal purity over academic honesty. Every place else, including the majority of xian colleges recognize the fact that the Bible CANNOT be treated as some sort of infallible history book.
Is it "inspired" in any way, shape or form? That can be debated to no end. Atheists will cheerfully say "NO", Jews, Christians and Muslims giving various degrees of a yes answer. That is not what I am here to deal with.
What I will point out is that IF it is inspired, then that inspiration MUST begin with the Torah, the Five Books of Moses. If they are not inspired, then NONE of it is. So, starting with the assumption that the Torah might have been inspired to some degree or another, we have to accept the notion that it means what it says. IF it means what it says, then there is the possibility that the prophets have something meaningful to say.
However, if the Torah is inspired, if the prophets have anything meaningful to say, then christianity is a crock of fecal matter that CANNOT possibly be true: xianity contradicts far too many of the central point from the Torah and the prophets to have ANY validity at all.
The Torah demands that the children of Israel worship one and only one God, the God that was taught to the children of Israel by Moses, and they were to worship him in the manner taught, without change, for ever. The Torah defined all sins; anything not listed in the Torah is not a sin, anything listed in the Torah will be a sin always and forever. Sins are forgiven in the manner specified in the Torah (blood sacrifice, or sacrifice without blood if that is the only thing possible, or merely through heartfelt prayer if that is the only thing that the sinner has to offer). Indeed, the prophets say that it is far better to offer nothing more than a sincere prayer than to offer a sacrifice without meaning it.
The Torah forbids the worship of any man, or anything else from the earth, the sky or the heavens. The Torah forbids ever adding to or taking away anything from the Torah. What Moses taught the Jews to do is what Jews are supposed to be doing long after the Messiah comes and is returned to dust.
Here's a hint for you: read the first 8 chapters of Deuteronomy and see if there is anything in there that contradicts what I have said here. After that, read the rest of Deuteronomy - it makes this point over and over again.
EXCELLENT
Neil Andblowme

Hoboken, NJ

#6078 Feb 14, 2013
tickedoffchic wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!!! You fundies always come up with the most ridiculous sources.
lol

“Jesus=only way into Heaven”

Since: Nov 12

saved by grace through faith

#6080 Feb 14, 2013
Jazybird58 wrote:
<quoted text>The two books of Peter?
Are you really that idiotic? Please tell me you trolls are deliberately acting this moronic for *giggles* or whatever reason you like to make fools out of yourselves. I find it hard to believe that anyone above a Kindergarten education would be so asinine.

The obvious forgery of the "gospel according to Peter" is quite different than the Holy Bible's 2 epistles of Peter.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#6081 Feb 14, 2013
Romans Road wrote:
<quoted text>
I credit my sources when I copy/paste......unlike so many of the Topix plagiarizing unbeliever trolls.
Why don't you cite some examples of people, you call them trolls, cutting and pasting something without crediting the source. I think you're plumb crazy.

God bless you.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#6082 Feb 14, 2013
tickedoffchic wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!!! You fundies always come up with the most ridiculous sources.
Did you look at the home page? What a bunch of psychos.

Beer kills?

“Mystical Atheism for everyone!”

Since: Nov 08

El Cerrito California

#6083 Feb 14, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>You remind me of a child lying on the floor flailing his legs and screaming that his mother hates him because she won't buy him candy to add to his obesity and rot his teeth.
The Christian Bible teaches that homosexual behavior is condemned by God and that those who do not repent of it will suffer eternal consequences. From a Christian point of view, affirming or blessing such behavior is contributing to the eternal damnation of those who choose to engage in homosexual behavior. THAT would be hate, not supporting God's Commands.
thank you for sharing your opinion.

Science and common sense says your wrong.

LOVE just amplifies it.

have a nice day.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#6084 Feb 14, 2013
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you look at the home page? What a bunch of psychos.
Beer kills?
No, all I had to see was,"The great Bible teacher, M.R. DeHaan, M.D." and I burst out laughing.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#6085 Feb 14, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you manage to find a legally valid justification for prohibiting same-sex marriage during your hiatus, or is that your swan song?
That's not Jeff. It's Pekin IL.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#6086 Feb 14, 2013
Neil Andblowme wrote:
<quoted text>
I sincerely doubt if Liam agrees with you, silly thing.
Actually he did. But if you read our posts you would know that huh :)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#6087 Feb 14, 2013
Neil Andblowme wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't building the third temple one of the prophecies?
It's a matter of interpretation. From what I read the prophecy concerns the return of the Messiah. But the rebuilding of the temple is up to each generation of Israelites that have a chance to rebuild it.
I took the following from a Jewish site specializing in it's temple history and info. An interesting read. Some of it will show how the Christians believe Jesus was that messiah.
....
http://www.templeinstitute.org/messiah_temple...
....
The Performance of the Torah's Commandments Does Not Depend Upon the Messiah

There are no Biblical verses that make a connection between the building of the Holy Temple and the arrival of the messiah. The building of the Holy Temple is a commandment that is binding upon all of Israel to fulfill, in every generation.

But it must be noted that there is a difference between the commandments that Israel are obliged to perform, and the prophecies referring to the appearance of the messiah. The prophecies are a Divine promise; a heavenly revelation concerning the appearance of the redeemer in the end of days.

Nothing can ever change that Divine promise. However it is important to understand that the arrival of the messiah is not dependent on anything other than the will of G-d alone. He shall fulfill His promise at the time that He deems fit.

In fact, if there really is a question as to "Which comes first, the messiah or the Temple," there seems to be ample indication that the building of the Holy Temple will precede the messiah's arrival. Various Biblical verses and statements made by the great sages prove this. This is actually the opinion of Maimonides, who quotes an astounding verse from the prophecy of Malachi (3:1) in his classic Letter to Yemen:

"For suddenly the master whom you are seeking will come to his sanctuary."

It appears that this prophecy, referring to the arrival of the messiah, specifies that he will indeed arrive at the already built Temple.
....
Prophecies and explanation of the arrival of the Messiah...
....
Messiah in Biblical Sources

Let us begin by examining the Biblical foundation for the concept of messiah. We find that the concept of messiah first appears in the prophecy of Bilaam: "There shall come a star out of Jacob, and a scepter shall rise out of Israel" (Numbers 24:17).

The Hebrew word used here for scepter, shevet, is translated into Aramaic as "messiah."

The idea of "messiah" is described in the various writings of the prophets with varying attributes.

In the book of Daniel, he is described as one who arrives with the clouds of heaven. "I saw in the night visions, and behold, one like a son of man came with the clouds of heaven... " (Daniel 7:13).

However, in Zechariah (9:9), the messiah is described as "lowly, riding upon an ass."

Our sages understand this seeming contradiction to indicate that both visions are essentially correct - and that anything is possible. Perhaps when the messiah arrives, grandeur and splendor will accompany his appearance. Alternatively, perhaps he will come in a quiet and unassuming fashion. The Talmud indicates that much of this depends upon Israel: If they are deemed worthy and deserving, he will arrive in a grand manner to befit their status; if not, the opposite is true (Sanhedrin 98:A).

Since: Dec 09

Chicago, IL

#6088 Feb 14, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are critical thinking skills bad?
Because critical thinking,if applied to Fundies' literal Bible beliefs, would bring down the whole house of cards.

“It's all in your head”

Since: Dec 12

Austin, TX

#6089 Feb 14, 2013
Romans Road wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you really that idiotic? Please tell me you trolls are deliberately acting this moronic for *giggles* or whatever reason you like to make fools out of yourselves. I find it hard to believe that anyone above a Kindergarten education would be so asinine.
The obvious forgery of the "gospel according to Peter" is quite different than the Holy Bible's 2 epistles of Peter.
There is a claim that the bible is the word of God, but I believe it was written by man. By that claim it is a forgery.

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#6090 Feb 14, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Aw, that's not evidence. Maybe next time you'll bring some? Nah...
Like I told rosey palm, Sad part is you wouldn't know it if it bit you on the ass...

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#6091 Feb 14, 2013
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you look at the home page? What a bunch of psychos.
Beer kills?
Ya, but what a way to go...

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#6092 Feb 14, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
At a guess, perhaps the miracle will be converting the Muslims to Judaism...
Found a Jewish site you might like. It speaks of the temple and history relating to it including prophecies.
....
http://www.templeinstitute.org/messiah_temple...
....
They even had some info about that Bar Cochba you mentioned.
....
The Definition of Messiah in Halacha (Authentic Jewish Law)

Shortly after the destruction of the Second Temple, the Jewish warrior Bar Cochba led a short-lived rebellion against the Roman occupation of the Land of Israel (80-83 CE). Maimonides describes Bar Cochba as "a great king whom all of Israel, including the great sages, were convinced was the messiah" (Hilchot Ta'aniot Ch. 5, Hilchot Melachim Ch. 11). In fact, one of the reasons that the solemn fast of Tisha B'Av (the ninth of Av) was instituted - in addition to the destruction of the Holy Temple - was to commemorate Bar Cochba's downfall.

This is crucial to a proper understanding of the role of the messiah. From Maimonides' words, we understand that Bar Cochba's attempt to restore the kingdom to Israel and return the nation to its land is clearly defined by Jewish law as a messianic manifestation. Thus a fast was decreed for all generations to mourn the failure of this process. In other words, the attempts of Bar Cochba had messianic potential.

Similarly, the prophet Zechariah indicates that it is proper to rejoice over any messianic manifestation, even if it only exists on a small scale, or in potential.

"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion;
shout, O daughter of Jerusalem;
behold, your king comes to you...
humble, and riding upon an ass."

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#6093 Feb 14, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
However, if the Torah is inspired, if the prophets have anything meaningful to say, then christianity is a crock of fecal matter that CANNOT possibly be true: xianity contradicts far too many of the central point from the Torah and the prophets to have ANY validity at all.
The Torah demands that the children of Israel worship one and only one God, the God that was taught to the children of Israel by Moses, and they were to worship him in the manner taught, without change, for ever. The Torah defined all sins; anything not listed in the Torah is not a sin, anything listed in the Torah will be a sin always and forever. Sins are forgiven in the manner specified in the Torah (blood sacrifice, or sacrifice without blood if that is the only thing possible, or merely through heartfelt prayer if that is the only thing that the sinner has to offer). Indeed, the prophets say that it is far better to offer nothing more than a sincere prayer than to offer a sacrifice without meaning it.
The Torah forbids the worship of any man, or anything else from the earth, the sky or the heavens. The Torah forbids ever adding to or taking away anything from the Torah. What Moses taught the Jews to do is what Jews are supposed to be doing long after the Messiah comes and is returned to dust.
Here's a hint for you: read the first 8 chapters of Deuteronomy and see if there is anything in there that contradicts what I have said here. After that, read the rest of Deuteronomy - it makes this point over and over again.
Problems with your logic. If what you say is true, Jews would still be offering blood sacrifices for their sins every year, as done in the Old Testament. The lack of a current temple wouldn't stop them as they could just as easily build another portable one like Moses had.
Another problem is that what Christianity brought to the faith was grace. The teaching that forgiveness is better than obeying the strict law. If you catch your wife cheating, it is better to forgive her than stone her. The laws of Moses do not rule out forgiveness, but they do tell you what is to be done if the person offended wants retribution.
Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
Matt 23
23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness;
John 1:17
"For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."

There is no conflict between the law and grace.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#6094 Feb 14, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
The blood of Jesus dried up into dust at the same time the rest of his body did.
Actually, he lived for about 7 weeks after his crucifixion. The Roman's spear (ironically) saved his life.

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