Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

Apr 27, 2009 Full story: news.yahoo.com 16,103

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

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“Jesus=only way into Heaven”

Since: Nov 12

saved by grace through faith

#4336 Feb 7, 2013
Troth for Leogere wrote:
<quoted text>Chapter and verse.......... produce it!
Job 26:7- He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

Isaiah 40:21-22
21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Proverbs 8:27- When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
----------
Circle, compass = Strong's H2329 - chuwg

“The Topix Legend of "GS8"!”

Since: Sep 10

Yunited States, North America

#4337 Feb 7, 2013
Romans Road wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello RR. Hope all is well with you.
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#4338 Feb 7, 2013
Troth for Leogere wrote:
<quoted text>Because churches ARE splitting away from hard core religious doctrinal powerbases.
The numbers in THIS country ALONE are swinging toward acceptance, understanding and INCLUSION with an understanding of scriptural fallibilty toward homosexuality AND 'marrigae' between them.
Your bullshit is just that! A pipe dream thats leaking BADLY!
The only mainline denomination that is having any real trouble over this is the episcopalians. They have had a membership decline now for decades. Entire arishes and whole dicocease are ;eaving whil;e the vast bulk of the worldwide Anglican communion has maintained there stance on marriage and are threatening to break ties with the Church of England.

Other than them I can only think perhaps the Unitarians,l a small denomination not known for their theological seriousness.

You need to check your facts this is not an area were we lack numbers or data.

Its commonly noted that the orthodox Christian denominations continue to grow because of greater fucundity amoung there members and people join religions specifically for traditional values.

"rogressive" religion howevers mebership is always declining because the tend to follow their secular betters and stop believing all togehter ad stop attending regular services and the like.

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Home-Page-New...

“The Topix Legend of "GS8"!”

Since: Sep 10

Yunited States, North America

#4339 Feb 7, 2013
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello Quest.

“ ILKS r kewl ”

Since: Apr 09

Conch republic

#4340 Feb 7, 2013
Romans Road wrote:
<quoted text>
Job 26:7- He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
Isaiah 40:21-22
21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Proverbs 8:27- When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
----------
Circle, compass = Strong's H2329 - chuwg
I find this hysterical.. seeing as the compass wasnt invented until after jesus time... by THE CHINESE!
The 'circle'.. wafers are FLAT 'circles'!

Foundations are bodies or ground on which other parts rest or are overlaid.

yeah your 'scripture' hunt failed.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.(KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?(KJV)
Psalm 104:5"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. Psalm

It is quite clear that the above Biblical Verses suggest and claim that the Earth is flat, has Edges, has Four Corners, has Pillars, and has Foundations. No unbiased person would deny the straight forward quotes above. Only the desperate biased Jews and Christians would.

Some desperate Christians have gone as far as presenting Isaiah 40:22 to try to prove that the Bible claims that the earth is round.

Eat it and weep.

“ ILKS r kewl ”

Since: Apr 09

Conch republic

#4341 Feb 7, 2013
Fitz wrote:
<quoted text>
The only mainline denomination that is having any real trouble over this is the episcopalians. They have had a membership decline now for decades. Entire arishes and whole dicocease are ;eaving whil;e the vast bulk of the worldwide Anglican communion has maintained there stance on marriage and are threatening to break ties with the Church of England.
Other than them I can only think perhaps the Unitarians,l a small denomination not known for their theological seriousness.
You need to check your facts this is not an area were we lack numbers or data.
Its commonly noted that the orthodox Christian denominations continue to grow because of greater fucundity amoung there members and people join religions specifically for traditional values.
"rogressive" religion howevers mebership is always declining because the tend to follow their secular betters and stop believing all togehter ad stop attending regular services and the like.
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Home-Page-New...
Please learn how to spell correctly.. I cant possibly have any type of intelligent dialogue with an idiot.
Either that or you are horribly intoxicated.
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#4342 Feb 7, 2013
Troth for Leogere wrote:
<quoted text>Please learn how to spell correctly.. I cant possibly have any type of intelligent dialogue with an idiot.
Either that or you are horribly intoxicated.
h,

Im sure you can pick through my typo's and get the general point.

I think its more likley that you can respond with any kind of counter argument because the fact are simply not on your side.

FYI - Both religious and secular athorities, the educated and the non-educated... thought the world to be a "flat" in the sense you speak of it. This did not come from religion nor was it propagated by religion as part of its belief system.

“Jesus=only way into Heaven”

Since: Nov 12

saved by grace through faith

#4343 Feb 7, 2013
GodSmacked wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello RR. Hope all is well with you.
Hello GS, all is well with me......I hope everything is going well with you.

“Jesus=only way into Heaven”

Since: Nov 12

saved by grace through faith

#4344 Feb 7, 2013
Troth for Leogere wrote:
<quoted text>I find this hysterical.. seeing as the compass wasnt invented until after jesus time... by THE CHINESE!
The 'circle'.. wafers are FLAT 'circles'!
Foundations are bodies or ground on which other parts rest or are overlaid.
yeah your 'scripture' hunt failed.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.(KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?(KJV)
Psalm 104:5"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. Psalm
It is quite clear that the above Biblical Verses suggest and claim that the Earth is flat, has Edges, has Four Corners, has Pillars, and has Foundations. No unbiased person would deny the straight forward quotes above. Only the desperate biased Jews and Christians would.
Some desperate Christians have gone as far as presenting Isaiah 40:22 to try to prove that the Bible claims that the earth is round.
Eat it and weep.
Weep what? You are making a fool out of yourself yet again. You are copy/pasting from anti-Christian trash sites that are taking scripture out of context.

You can't think for yourself? Sadly, you're even plagiarizing the nonsense.

“Jesus=only way into Heaven”

Since: Nov 12

saved by grace through faith

#4345 Feb 7, 2013
Troth for Leogere wrote:
<quoted text>Please learn how to spell correctly.. I cant possibly have any type of intelligent dialogue with an idiot.
Either that or you are horribly intoxicated.
You unbelievers have NO right to talk about spelling or grammar errors.

"a tipickle unbeelevee postt is liek thiss herre, u fundiies r dum but we unbeeleveers arr smert"

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#4346 Feb 7, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
And that might be a problem, IF children did not have influences from outside the family. Children are not growing up in a vaccuum (with the possible exception to those raised by rabid homeschoolers!) but rather they have teachers, friends, neighbors, TV heroes, relatives, all of whom provide adequate role models for both genders.
What paretns need to provide, more than anything else, is a role model for intimate interpersonel relationships: how do people who love each other treat each other when the door is closed and it is only family? Do they show love and respect? Apathy? Abuse?
THIS is what kids need good parents to do: teach them how to treat one another with love and respect, teach them how to settle differences within a marriage, teache them how to act responcibly within a relationship. Gender is irrelevant to any of this.
I agree with most of what you said.
But concerning gender being irrelevant, that's some careful trading. Going to the basics of life, life set forth a male and female to procreate (and hopefully) and remain together to raise that off spring as it's done by some other mammals till the off spring is old enough to leave the nest.
We humans have changed that purpose set forth by life. We devalue those opposite sex relationships and are substituting them with other forms of relationships to raise and nurture off spring and we have decided that what we do is well and fine.
The future will prove how well and fine what we're doing is or isn't.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#4347 Feb 7, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, and children HAVE grown up, raised entirely by same sex parents. And studies of those children have shown that the incidence of homosexuality is no higher among them than among the population at large.
There are some indications that the children grow up more tollerant, and possilby have a slight edge in education. However, those results do require a lot more study to be proven.
I wasn't speaking of those issues.
Life designed most males to be male and most females to be female. We humans are doing our best to change those parameters designed by life through our DNA.
Females are becoming more masculine and males are becoming more feminine. And our societies are making those subtle changes. Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Or is it part of life's way of evolving the human species into something new, that it hasn't been for thousands of years when men were men and women were women. Only the future will know.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#4348 Feb 7, 2013
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, I do.......seeing that I have personally talked to and e-mailed the person outside of topix for at least a year and a 1/2....I'll take his views on you....and I've seen you post in other areas as well..........funny, how quick you are to call others a liar who don't see things your way!!!!
Ahhhh....so you come to his defence. That says a lot about yourself. This is a guy that has a paranoid delusional train of thinking concerning Mormons taking over the US government and all fifty states. He claims there is proof Young planned and carried out a massacre. There is no proof of any such thing. So when he claims there is and the very scholars he gets his information from won't even make that claim, it sets him as a liar. Very simple to understand really and you don't grasp it either.
If he was to say it was his opinion that would be correct and honest of him to say. But he doesn't state that. He lies each time he states there is proof Young commanded that massacre. As long as he lies, I will call him a liar.
See, when he states his opinion or truth of something, we debate but I don't call him what he isn't. There is no need to call him what he's not. But he's to old to be making such a pathetic lie to fuel his delusional rants that the Mormon church is taking over the US government and all fifty states. And that's an opinion of his delusional or not and I have never called him a liar on it :)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#4349 Feb 7, 2013
Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Our Bible gives step-by-step instructions for a successful marriage until death do we part
.
It is the most detailed example of marriage in the entire Bible
.
++++++++++
1 Samuel 18 :1> And it came to passe when hee made an ende of speaking vnto Saul, that the soule of Ionathan was knit with the soule of Dauid, and Ionathan loued him as his owne soule.
.
1 Samuel 18:3> Then Ionathan and Dauid made a couenant, because he loued him as his owne soule.
.
1 Samuel 18:4> And Ionathan stript himselfe of the robe that was vpon him, and gaue it to Dauid, and his garments, euen to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.
.
1 Samuel 20:41> And assoone as the ladde was gone, Dauid arose out of a place toward the South, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himselfe three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, vntill Dauid exceeded.
.
1 Samuel 20:42> And Ionathan said to Dauid, Goe in peace, forasmuch as wee haue sworne both of vs in the Name of the Lord, saying; The Lord be betweene me and thee, and betweene my seede and thy seede for euer. And hee arose, and departed: and Ionathan went into the citie.
.
2 Samuel 1:25> How are the mightie fallen in the midst of the battell! O Ionathan, thou wast slaine in thine high places.
.
2 Samuel 1:26> I am distressed for thee, my brother Ionathan, very pleasant hast thou beene vnto mee: thy loue to mee was wonderfull, passing the loue of women.
++++++++++
Since you're using Bible verses to prove the marriage between two men is valid and fine with God, I have a favour of you.
Please show from all the scriptural writings from 1800 years ago or older, where the Jewish God besides allowing for a man and a woman to be in a union/marriage and allowed a man to have more than one wife, please show where in any scriptures the Jewish God allowed a man married to one or more women to also be married to a one or more men. Or even the reverse, show where the Jewish God allowed for a man to marry one or more men and to also marry one or more women at the same time.

“SCOTUS will Rule in June for”

Since: Aug 08

MARRIAGE EQUALITY:-)

#4350 Feb 7, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahhhh....so you come to his defence. That says a lot about yourself. This is a guy that has a paranoid delusional train of thinking concerning Mormons taking over the US government and all fifty states. He claims there is proof Young planned and carried out a massacre. There is no proof of any such thing. So when he claims there is and the very scholars he gets his information from won't even make that claim, it sets him as a liar. Very simple to understand really and you don't grasp it either.
If he was to say it was his opinion that would be correct and honest of him to say. But he doesn't state that. He lies each time he states there is proof Young commanded that massacre. As long as he lies, I will call him a liar.
See, when he states his opinion or truth of something, we debate but I don't call him what he isn't. There is no need to call him what he's not. But he's to old to be making such a pathetic lie to fuel his delusional rants that the Mormon church is taking over the US government and all fifty states. And that's an opinion of his delusional or not and I have never called him a liar on it :)
No, he doesn't.......but it doesn't surprise me that you want to believe that.

Anyways, I really don't care what you believe and I would prefer to ignore you going forward.

Be well and have a safe life!!!

“SCOTUS will Rule in June for”

Since: Aug 08

MARRIAGE EQUALITY:-)

#4351 Feb 7, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
He claims there is proof Young planned and carried out a massacre.
What do you consider proof? Maybe this:
http://1857massacre.com/

or this:
http://mountainmeadowsmassacre.com/

or maybe this one:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/660196272/...

It appears this massacre happened, but different accounts seem to suggest that Brigham Young either was a part of it or the Church was, which I believe he founded.......so.....what proof do you have that states something different?

Either way, it's irrelevant to me.....but I find it interesting that you call him a liar, yet don't provide any evidence to support why!!!

“SCOTUS will Rule in June for”

Since: Aug 08

MARRIAGE EQUALITY:-)

#4352 Feb 7, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
Females are becoming more masculine and males are becoming more feminine. And our societies are making those subtle changes. Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Or is it part of life's way of evolving the human species into something new, that it hasn't been for thousands of years when men were men and women were women. Only the future will know.
Why does it matter if a man opts to be a stay at home parent? Does this make him less of a man? Why if a woman wants to be a Firefighter does that mean she is trying to be to masculine?

Really, men were men thousands of year ago? Please explain how......I'd be interested to know how......and why should men and women be defined by certain criteria?

Funny thing about gender and defining folks by specific gender related roles........it shouldn't matter.....men can still be men regardless of what their interests are and the same should apply to women......the more we try to force people to be in gender specific roles, the more people say no and break out of narrow boxes!!!

The only thing in this world that is 100% A WOMAN THING.......is carrying, birthing and breast-feeding babies.....everything else is debatable!!!!

“SCOTUS will Rule in June for”

Since: Aug 08

MARRIAGE EQUALITY:-)

#4353 Feb 7, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with most of what you said.
But concerning gender being irrelevant, that's some careful trading. Going to the basics of life, life set forth a male and female to procreate (and hopefully) and remain together to raise that off spring as it's done by some other mammals till the off spring is old enough to leave the nest.
We humans have changed that purpose set forth by life. We devalue those opposite sex relationships and are substituting them with other forms of relationships to raise and nurture off spring and we have decided that what we do is well and fine.
The future will prove how well and fine what we're doing is or isn't.
I don't believe anyone is devaluing opposite-sex relationships......but people are devaluing the families of Same-Sex Couples and trying to make it seem that Gays and Lesbians are somehow not valued Citizens of this Country..........the future is going to be just fine, hopefully we will learn that just because some can have babies, doesn't mean they should.......like that wonderful couple earlier that I posted about!!!

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#4354 Feb 8, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Its just starting. As society evolves over the decades and centuries anything can happen.
You'll be long dead. It will be THEIR world to do with as they wish.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#4355 Feb 8, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with most of what you said.
But concerning gender being irrelevant, that's some careful trading. Going to the basics of life, life set forth a male and female to procreate (and hopefully) and remain together to raise that off spring as it's done by some other mammals till the off spring is old enough to leave the nest.
We humans have changed that purpose set forth by life. We devalue those opposite sex relationships and are substituting them with other forms of relationships to raise and nurture off spring and we have decided that what we do is well and fine.
The future will prove how well and fine what we're doing is or isn't.
In this and other posts, you seem to conflate gender with gender roles. One is plumbing, the other social conditioning; i.e. transitory and mutable.

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