Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

Apr 27, 2009 Full story: news.yahoo.com 16,104

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

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“Shoot for the stars”

Since: Dec 10

Planet Earth

#4124 Feb 7, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
The poster stated... "Should we encourage women to have babies out of wedlock? Is that something society should encourage?"
Well considering we have a present society that devalues marriage, the fact that we have so many dead beat dads leaving mom's to take care of babies on their own, the fact that certain women groups preach through the media that they no longer need a man to survive and they can do it all on there own, including the raising of a child, the fact that we have an increase in single women using sperm clinics to have a baby instead of a relationship, I would say yes. Our society at present encourages pregnancy out of wedlock as an option to pregnancy from within a relationship.
You also have to remember that there are many women who can't find a suitable mate either while their biological clock is ticking away. I don't see anything wrong with women wanting children, especially if they can financially do it.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#4125 Feb 7, 2013
Earth Child 1 wrote:
<quoted text>You also have to remember that there are many women who can't find a suitable mate either while their biological clock is ticking away. I don't see anything wrong with women wanting children, especially if they can financially do it.
What about those who can't afford children on their own? Is money all that is necessary to raise a child?

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#4126 Feb 7, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
One of the most recent studies to come out showed there are significant problems when raised by same sex couples. It was challenged and it shown to be a sound scientific study. Unlike so many of the pro studies.
WEll, I could just call you a liar, since you don't bother to post ANY of the information necessary for a proper citation of a source. Howeve3r, I am going to cut you some slack, since I am psychic enough to know what study you were talking about.

No, that was not a valid scientific study. While it collected reams of data, it was NOT shown to be a sound scientific study; it was shown to have not engaged in fraud. BIG difference. HUGE difference.

In point of fact, that study attempted to compare apples and oranges, by comparing stable heterosexual couples raising their own kids to same sex couples with one of the parents being a foster parent. You MUST change only ONE variable at a time for a study to be valid, where this study changed two, and one of them it did not bother to address as it was being changed. VERY sloppy methodology.

What that study did show was that divorce is not good for kids. It can be far better than the alternative, but divorce is not good, in and of itself.

Now, if you want to have a VALID scientific study, here is what you must do:

1) Change only one variable. If you want to study the effects of same sex parenting on child development, then all of the families used must be identical EXCEPT for the mixture of genders among the parents: compare one bio parent + one step parent, or compare two adopted parents.

2) Gather a large sample. This is the only part your study got right - many families were studied.

3) Perform a longitudinal study, tracking the same children over a LONG period of time. Like from birth until they have raised children of their own.

4) Identify ALL of the outside factors affecting the children in the study: location, education, religion, nutrition, health, peers, neighbors, family, etc, etc, etc.

5) Find someone to pony up the millions and millions of dollars this study would cost.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#4127 Feb 7, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Remember you tried to make where David exceeded to mean orgasm or something like that and you were caught in a lie.
Totally incorrect. No one ever showed that to be a lie. In point of fact, by posting the dictionary definition, BAC showed to everyone that it was perfectly logical for them to have used that term as a slang term for orgasm. And that is why I love posting only the truth, as best I can. That way, every time some yahoo tries to call me on it, they end up looking like fools...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#4128 Feb 7, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, there is no 'valid' evidence for either claim. Same sex marriage with children hasn't been happening long enough yet for any accurate studies to be made of or about.
There is no information yet to state if there might be a difference between a child being raised by two men or two women. Men and women are different. Males usually being masculine and females usually being feminine, there should be some psychological difference of an effect on a child in just those two different same sex parent relationships.
I think good people will help to produce a positive thinking child regardless. But there are obvious differences, just none proven by science yet.
And that might be a problem, IF children did not have influences from outside the family. Children are not growing up in a vaccuum (with the possible exception to those raised by rabid homeschoolers!) but rather they have teachers, friends, neighbors, TV heroes, relatives, all of whom provide adequate role models for both genders.

What paretns need to provide, more than anything else, is a role model for intimate interpersonel relationships: how do people who love each other treat each other when the door is closed and it is only family? Do they show love and respect? Apathy? Abuse?

THIS is what kids need good parents to do: teach them how to treat one another with love and respect, teach them how to settle differences within a marriage, teache them how to act responcibly within a relationship. Gender is irrelevant to any of this.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#4129 Feb 7, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
WEll, I could just call you a liar, since you don't bother to post ANY of the information necessary for a proper citation of a source. Howeve3r, I am going to cut you some slack, since I am psychic enough to know what study you were talking about.
No, that was not a valid scientific study. While it collected reams of data, it was NOT shown to be a sound scientific study; it was shown to have not engaged in fraud. BIG difference. HUGE difference.
In point of fact, that study attempted to compare apples and oranges, by comparing stable heterosexual couples raising their own kids to same sex couples with one of the parents being a foster parent. You MUST change only ONE variable at a time for a study to be valid, where this study changed two, and one of them it did not bother to address as it was being changed. VERY sloppy methodology.
What that study did show was that divorce is not good for kids. It can be far better than the alternative, but divorce is not good, in and of itself.
Now, if you want to have a VALID scientific study, here is what you must do:
1) Change only one variable. If you want to study the effects of same sex parenting on child development, then all of the families used must be identical EXCEPT for the mixture of genders among the parents: compare one bio parent + one step parent, or compare two adopted parents.
2) Gather a large sample. This is the only part your study got right - many families were studied.
3) Perform a longitudinal study, tracking the same children over a LONG period of time. Like from birth until they have raised children of their own.
4) Identify ALL of the outside factors affecting the children in the study: location, education, religion, nutrition, health, peers, neighbors, family, etc, etc, etc.
5) Find someone to pony up the millions and millions of dollars this study would cost.
I feel a lot better you are cutting me some slack. Keep in mind this study is not the last on this issue.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#4130 Feb 7, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Totally incorrect. No one ever showed that to be a lie. In point of fact, by posting the dictionary definition, BAC showed to everyone that it was perfectly logical for them to have used that term as a slang term for orgasm. And that is why I love posting only the truth, as best I can. That way, every time some yahoo tries to call me on it, they end up looking like fools...
I asked you to show me from Hebrew dictionary on the Old Testament and you came up with some lame response. Slang has nothing to do with it. It is you who is looking like the fool.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#4131 Feb 7, 2013
doug wrote:
<quoted text> gay people are christian in name only but not in their deeds
CHRISTIANS are christian in name only but not in their deeds...

Well, okay, let's be fair... I have NEVER seen an anti SSM xian that in any way exemplified "Christian" values. Some, all of whom accept the concept of SSM, have done something along the lines of following the ideas of christianity. Even if that is still rather far removed from the teachings of Jesus.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#4132 Feb 7, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, there is no 'valid' evidence for either claim. Same sex marriage with children hasn't been happening long enough yet for any accurate studies to be made of or about.
There is no information yet to state if there might be a difference between a child being raised by two men or two women. Men and women are different. Males usually being masculine and females usually being feminine, there should be some psychological difference of an effect on a child in just those two different same sex parent relationships.
I think good people will help to produce a positive thinking child regardless. But there are obvious differences, just none proven by science yet.
Oh, and children HAVE grown up, raised entirely by same sex parents. And studies of those children have shown that the incidence of homosexuality is no higher among them than among the population at large.

There are some indications that the children grow up more tollerant, and possilby have a slight edge in education. However, those results do require a lot more study to be proven.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#4133 Feb 7, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Millions in every state that has voted against it.
And millions voted to keep slavery legal. So what?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#4134 Feb 7, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Anything I said could be made into law. After all, if we can legally kill babies via abortion then the govt could make any kind of law it wants.
No. That you think such demonstrates just how stupid you are.

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#4135 Feb 7, 2013
Seriously__ wrote:
<quoted text>
They have!! http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&sc...
But now wait a minute, what do you need one for?!?!?!?
Hope all is well, God bless.
We don't......but we do have men in our family and male friends who visit......lol!!!!

We are holding on!!!

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#4136 Feb 7, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
I asked you to show me from Hebrew dictionary on the Old Testament and you came up with some lame response. Slang has nothing to do with it. It is you who is looking like the fool.
Silly child, slang has EVERYTHING to do with the word inquestion.

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#4137 Feb 7, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
lol... you know not who you're taking a heads up from. You should take some time and read his posts before you take a heads up from a guy that believes the God you believe in is a fake god. That the Bible is a book of crap and untrue, yet he chooses specific verses from that book of crap that's untrue and uses them for his theistic ideologies.
This guy your taking a heads up from, he believes in the near future, Mormons will run the US government and will establish a blood and guts theocratic Mormon government, basically reinstituting the death penalty for crimes where by a criminal's blood is spilled to make amends for his crimes. He believes the Mormons are going to take over the political seats of DC and than force all fifty states into a theocratic based constitutions to be ran by.
Next time you take a heads up from someone, get to know who you're getting chummy with, just saying :)
Actually, I do.......seeing that I have personally talked to and e-mailed the person outside of topix for at least a year and a 1/2....I'll take his views on you....and I've seen you post in other areas as well..........funny, how quick you are to call others a liar who don't see things your way!!!!

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#4138 Feb 7, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Already answered the elderly question. It is true that children raised in single parent households will most likely have problems. I am not for single parent adoption.
Now answer my questions: should a brother and sister be able to marry each other? How about group marriages?
ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.
I'll answer. Again, since these points have already been addressed.

Incest has ample evidence showing that it can result in the harmful mixing of otherwise recessive genes, leading to a sharp increase in birth defects and numerous other deleterious effects.

No one has given any reasons for banning group marriages, other than the negative example of the FLDS Mormons. However, their polygamous marriages were primarily about the cult-like control of the community by a small group of elders through the giving or withdrawl of wives to the young men - wives who were on some occassions far too young to give consent for such marriages.

And as far as single parent households, yes they can have problems. Requests for adoption need to be vary carefully scrutinized. However, a single good parent is far better than a constant succession of neglectful (or worse - outright abusive) foster parents.

Case in point: my son is better off with me as a single parent than he would be if he were with his mother and her current husband.

Case in point, a woman that I know raised her daughter as a single parent. The daughter, a high school graduate with some college and some work experience, just had a very nice wedding ceremony. Still young, but so far she is doing pretty good.

Yes, there are plenty of negative examples of children raised by single parents. It just goes to show that you really don't have any facts to back up your prejudices...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#4139 Feb 7, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
These things having nothing to do with homosexuality. Homosexuality is an sexual orientation towards someone of the same sex. What are the benefits of being a homosexual?
If only you could see what you wrote...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#4140 Feb 7, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
In your opinion which is better: children born out of wedlock or in a traditional marriage?
Which is better:

1) A child raised in a traditional marriage, where the mother turns a blind eye to repeated abuse performed by the husband.

2) A child raised by a single mother so as to protect that child from an abusive father.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#4141 Feb 7, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Lots of people can't marry who they want such polygamist or group marriage. Secondly, they can marry someone from the opposite sex.
Is there any possiblity that for one second you could understand just how incredibly stupid that idea is?

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#4142 Feb 7, 2013
Romans Road wrote:
<quoted text>
Standing firm behind the Word of God is not being a bigot. Marriage is between a MAN and a WOMAN only, that's not denying a homosexual any equal rights. SIN isn't a minority class.
Pretending that your prejudices have anything to do with the "Word" of God however IS being a bigot.

There is NOTHING in the bible that legitimately translates into a condemnation of homosexuality. Nothing.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#4143 Feb 7, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Silly child, slang has EVERYTHING to do with the word inquestion.
Silly little man, slang has nothing to do with what a word means in the Old Testament.

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