A little talking doesn't hurt

THE MOST reported political story this week was the dustup between the president and Barack Obama on talking with governments that are hostile with us. Full Story
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Frank

Magalia, CA

#1 May 24, 2008
Here's the appeasement that the Republicans don't want to talk about. Bushco bankrolls the dictator of Pakistan millions of dollars per month to supposedly fight for our "War on Terror". Thats the real Alquada he's appeasing, and the real Binladen, who for whatever reason, Bushco has NOT arrested. Unlike the Republicans screaming about the intolerable danger Iran is supposedly preparing to present, this is a clear and present danger. One that the Republicans are willing to tolerate in silence.

Pentagon says growth of Al-Qaeda safe havens 'troubling'
AFP
Published: Friday May 23, 2008



A Pentagon report said Friday that the growth of Al-Qaeda safe havens in Pakistan's tribal areas is "troubling" and warned it may take Pakistan several years to turn around the situation.

The report to Congress by the US Department of Defense said Pakistan increased its troop levels in the border areas by 30,000 last year, and made "significant and costly" efforts to eliminate safe havens.

"It is troubling that despite these efforts, safe havens in the FATA have grown in recent years," the report said.

The report made no reference to an apparent change in strategy by the new Pakistani government favoring negotiations with militants in the federally administered tribal areas.

Under a peace agreement reached this week with pro-Taliban militants in the Swat Valley, the government agreed to gradually pull out its troops in return for a halt in attacks.
Brad Jenks

Redding, CA

#2 May 24, 2008
Frank wrote:
Here's the appeasement that the Republicans don't want to talk about. Bushco bankrolls the dictator of Pakistan millions of dollars per month to supposedly fight for our "War on Terror". Thats the real Alquada he's appeasing, and the real Binladen, who for whatever reason, Bushco has NOT arrested. Unlike the Republicans screaming about the intolerable danger Iran is supposedly preparing to present, this is a clear and present danger. One that the Republicans are willing to tolerate in silence.
Pentagon says growth of Al-Qaeda safe havens 'troubling'
AFP
Published: Friday May 23, 2008
A Pentagon report said Friday that the growth of Al-Qaeda safe havens in Pakistan's tribal areas is "troubling" and warned it may take Pakistan several years to turn around the situation.
The report to Congress by the US Department of Defense said Pakistan increased its troop levels in the border areas by 30,000 last year, and made "significant and costly" efforts to eliminate safe havens.
"It is troubling that despite these efforts, safe havens in the FATA have grown in recent years," the report said.
The report made no reference to an apparent change in strategy by the new Pakistani government favoring negotiations with militants in the federally administered tribal areas.
Under a peace agreement reached this week with pro-Taliban militants in the Swat Valley, the government agreed to gradually pull out its troops in return for a halt in attacks.
Frank more al Qaeda have been captured in Pakistan than any other nation.....by far. They include the biggest fish to date....Khalid Sheikh Mohammed....considered by most # 3 in al Qaeda when he was captured.

Does anyone believe if we knew where bin Laden was we wouldn't try to get him? Perhaps you should look back several years when we had intelligence indicating Ayman al-Zawahiri was at a home in the Pashun Pakistan mountains. A U.S. Predator Drone left Afghanistan air space and--puff--the house disappeared in ruin that the drone had took pictures of with several recognized al Qaeda.

As far as your contention "about the intolerable danger Iran is supposedly preparing to present" how do you explain your guy Obama's remarks the other day. He said, "Let me be absolutely clear: Iran is a grave threat." Did Bush convince him of a threat with his many lies?

And your seemingly endless attack because we have not got bin Laden places priorities in the wrong order. The President’s #1,#2, and #3 job after 9/11 was preventing future attacks against our nation. Bin Laden is and was important, but in order of importance was probably #4. We’ve succeeded in the first 3 Frank….knock on wood.

By the way Frank. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was the guy who brought the plan for 9/11 using aircraft to bin Laden in 1996. He’s the guy who sponsored his nephew, Ramzi Yousef, with funds when Yousef, Mohammed Salameh, Abdul Rahman Yasin and others bombed the trade center Feb 1993. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KLM) is the guy we have records of going to the Philippines in 1994 sponsoring Ramzi Yousef in his plan known as Project Bojinka (look it up) which after a chemical fire in a hotel room eventually led to Ramzi Yousef’s capture.

That plan, Bojinka, was the plan we discovered during the trial of Yousef which led to the 1998 memo warning President Clinton about aircraft (the same memo that landed on Bush’s desk Aug 2001 lefties allege should have warned Bush of 9/11) used as weapons.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.j...
Brad Jenks

Redding, CA

#3 May 24, 2008
Frank wrote:
Here's the appeasement that the Republicans don't want to talk about. Bushco bankrolls the dictator of Pakistan millions of dollars per month to supposedly fight for our "War on Terror". Thats the real Alquada he's appeasing, and the real Binladen, who for whatever reason, Bushco has NOT arrested. Unlike the Republicans screaming about the intolerable danger Iran is supposedly preparing to present, this is a clear and present danger. One that the Republicans are willing to tolerate in silence.
Pentagon says growth of Al-Qaeda safe havens 'troubling'
AFP
Published: Friday May 23, 2008
A Pentagon report said Friday that the growth of Al-Qaeda safe havens in Pakistan's tribal areas is "troubling" and warned it may take Pakistan several years to turn around the situation.
The report to Congress by the US Department of Defense said Pakistan increased its troop levels in the border areas by 30,000 last year, and made "significant and costly" efforts to eliminate safe havens.
"It is troubling that despite these efforts, safe havens in the FATA have grown in recent years," the report said.
The report made no reference to an apparent change in strategy by the new Pakistani government favoring negotiations with militants in the federally administered tribal areas.
Under a peace agreement reached this week with pro-Taliban militants in the Swat Valley, the government agreed to gradually pull out its troops in return for a halt in attacks.
I know you like to be informed so let me share with you this recently declassified PDF file.

This is joint FBI/CIA documentation. Go to pages 199-201 for the information regarding the early warnings (during Clinton's second term) about airplanes being used as weapons against us.

If you have the time or inclination you might want to copy the file to your computer so you can refer to it when you want to know about guys like Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (spelled a little different on PDF).

You'll find within these pages Mohammed Atta DID have a history of going to Prague and the al Qaeda meeting I've written of so many times in Jan 2000 at Kuala Lumpur also throughout. You’ll find the times the 9/11 terrorists entered, particularly those two after that Jan Kuala Lumpur meeting, entering Jan 15, 2000 and also when they joined flight schools etc.

It is not near as good reading as Looming Towers but is equally informing without buying the book.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/24jul...
Gerry

Findlay, OH

#4 May 24, 2008
Brad Jenks wrote:
<quoted text>
Frank more al Qaeda have been captured in Pakistan than any other nation.....by far. They include the biggest fish to date....Khalid Sheikh Mohammed....considered by most # 3 in al Qaeda when he was captured.
Does anyone believe if we knew where bin Laden was we wouldn't try to get him? Perhaps you should look back several years when we had intelligence indicating Ayman al-Zawahiri was at a home in the Pashun Pakistan mountains. A U.S. Predator Drone left Afghanistan air space and--puff--the house disappeared in ruin that the drone had took pictures of with several recognized al Qaeda.
As far as your contention "about the intolerable danger Iran is supposedly preparing to present" how do you explain your guy Obama's remarks the other day. He said, "Let me be absolutely clear: Iran is a grave threat." Did Bush convince him of a threat with his many lies?
And your seemingly endless attack because we have not got bin Laden places priorities in the wrong order. The President’s #1,#2, and #3 job after 9/11 was preventing future attacks against our nation. Bin Laden is and was important, but in order of importance was probably #4. We’ve succeeded in the first 3 Frank….knock on wood.
By the way Frank. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was the guy who brought the plan for 9/11 using aircraft to bin Laden in 1996. He’s the guy who sponsored his nephew, Ramzi Yousef, with funds when Yousef, Mohammed Salameh, Abdul Rahman Yasin and others bombed the trade center Feb 1993. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KLM) is the guy we have records of going to the Philippines in 1994 sponsoring Ramzi Yousef in his plan known as Project Bojinka (look it up) which after a chemical fire in a hotel room eventually led to Ramzi Yousef’s capture.
That plan, Bojinka, was the plan we discovered during the trial of Yousef which led to the 1998 memo warning President Clinton about aircraft (the same memo that landed on Bush’s desk Aug 2001 lefties allege should have warned Bush of 9/11) used as weapons.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.j...
We had Osama Bin Laden trapped in Tora Bora and Rumsfeld screwed that up and then Bush and the neo-cons in the White House took their eyes off of Afghanistan and brainwashed us in going to Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11. So now we have given rise to Iran, Al Qaeda has been given safe haven in Pakistan, our military is stretched thin, and the war on Iraq on a lie will cost trillions. A brilliant job by Bush.

You can google Tora Bora.
Also this.
Uhhhh

Tracy, CA

#5 May 24, 2008
How about Clinton's not getting Bin laden during his terms?

?
Gerry

Findlay, OH

#6 May 24, 2008
Uhhhh wrote:
How about Clinton's not getting Bin laden during his terms?
?
There were some 10 times (as told by an expert on TV) by Clinton and the CIA that did not get him. One such time Bin Laden was walking with an official from another country and the strike was called off.

If there was ever a time to get Bin Laden-then it would have to be after 9/11. We had the world on our side. And yet the Bush administration screwed that up.
Uhhhh

Tracy, CA

#7 May 24, 2008
yeah, dam that Bush! Buuuut Clinton missed him 10+ times, and he's still a great President(??), and the mess he left us in in Somalia, and under his desk,uhhh i mean on Monica's dress.

Lordy.
small peanuts

Sacramento, CA

#8 May 24, 2008
Yeah, but as they say, Clinton lied, but noone died. Bush doesn't know the truth anymore, he has lied so much. He's got the two confused. If he(or his buddies) who made all his decisions , had of been got rid of yrs b4 they were, we might not be in the mess we are in. Rummy was the worst of all. His desire for power set this country back years, & Rice knew all of this & did nothing about it. Monica's dress is small peanuts. Bob Woodward brought a lot of this to our attention. His uncovering brought a lot of the truth out.
icedtea4me

Saint Louis, MO

#9 May 24, 2008
Gerry wrote:
<quoted text>
We had Osama Bin Laden trapped in Tora Bora and Rumsfeld screwed that up and then Bush and the neo-cons in the White House took their eyes off of Afghanistan and brainwashed us in going to Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11. So now we have given rise to Iran, Al Qaeda has been given safe haven in Pakistan, our military is stretched thin, and the war on Iraq on a lie will cost trillions. A brilliant job by Bush.
You can google Tora Bora.
Also this.http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=nE2SdF1fN4sXX
Translation: I wish the Iraqi people were still under the rule of Saddam Hussein.
Publius2

United States

#11 May 24, 2008
"A little talking doesn't hurt." You mean we should negotiate with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who says he wants to wipe out Israel? You can see how much good it's done for Israel to talk (negotiate) with liars like the Palestinian leaders. Land for peace. The Israelis have given up land for peace many times. Peace never comes. They've been under rocket attacks from the very lands they have given up. Speaking of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, there is sufficient eyewitness testimony that he was instrumental in the taking of the US Embassy in Tehran - remember, under the (Democrat) Carter Administration. But perhaps we should talk - in the form of a warning.
Michelle

United States

#12 May 25, 2008
small peanuts wrote:
Yeah, but as they say, Clinton lied, but noone died. Bush doesn't know the truth anymore, he has lied so much. He's got the two confused. If he(or his buddies) who made all his decisions , had of been got rid of yrs b4 they were, we might not be in the mess we are in. Rummy was the worst of all. His desire for power set this country back years, & Rice knew all of this & did nothing about it. Monica's dress is small peanuts. Bob Woodward brought a lot of this to our attention. His uncovering brought a lot of the truth out.
Yes exactly! Clinton may have f****d Monica,but Bush has f****d the rest of us!!
Lance Winslow

United States

#13 May 25, 2008
So Michelle, how about I spread such rumors about you? Who are you F*****ng?

President Bush has been a great President, you have just adopted the media hits about him.
to Lance

Chico, CA

#14 May 25, 2008
Lance Winslow wrote:
So Michelle, how about I spread such rumors about you? Who are you F*****ng?
President Bush has been a great President, you have just adopted the media hits about him.
If president Bush has been a great president, name 1 thing the Decider has done for the American people.
The Decider is not a great president and YOU are
partially to blame if you voted for the jerk off.
Gerry

Findlay, OH

#15 May 25, 2008
icedtea4me wrote:
<quoted text>
Translation: I wish the Iraqi people were still under the rule of Saddam Hussein.
Translation: I wish the Bush administration would have done their job and get Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, instead of having abandoned the mission in Afghanistan and driving them into Pakistan. And also giving rise to Iran. And also being in a war that we can't get out of.
icedtea4me

Saint Louis, MO

#16 May 25, 2008
Brad Jenks

United States

#17 May 25, 2008
Gerry wrote:
<quoted text>
We had Osama Bin Laden trapped in Tora Bora and Rumsfeld screwed that up and then Bush and the neo-cons in the White House took their eyes off of Afghanistan and brainwashed us in going to Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11. So now we have given rise to Iran, Al Qaeda has been given safe haven in Pakistan, our military is stretched thin, and the war on Iraq on a lie will cost trillions. A brilliant job by Bush.
You can google Tora Bora.
Also this.http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=nE2SdF1fN4sXX
Ignorance runs rampant on the net. You can "google" a lot of things on the net, but that doesn't make them true.

We had verification of Usama bin Laden's voice imprint discussing retreat and escape from Tora Bora. The Northern Alliance was already near there and Tommy Franks decided to unleash a enormous bombing campaign on that mountain while allowing the Northern Alliance to "clean up" and capture any "left overs."

We had NO direct knowledge of where he was when the bombing campaign began and no ignorant comment will change that fact.
General Franks said regarding this,(1) We didn't know then and still don't know now if OBL was even in Tora Bora in December 2001; and (2) We didn't "outsource" military action, though we did rely heavily on Afghan forces because it was their turf.
What I don’t understand about you Bush haters is this: Don’t you realize when you make these erroneous accusations you are actually accusing our military of incompetence and malfeasance? Why choose to spread these lies on Memorial Day weekend of all times?

Lt. Gen. Michael DeLong (USMC, ret.) was Franks's deputy CENTCOM commander throughout the Afghan conflict. DeLong said, "It goes back to the beginning of the war." In the north of Afghanistan, "We used the Northern Alliance — which was in fact then the rebel force — to act as Gen. Franks's army on the ground and using their generals as Gen. Franks's ground generals. We would embed with each of their medium size ground forces a rather large special forces team with the capability of calling in air [strikes] and the CIA came because they knew the terrain and they knew the people, they knew the languages and it forced the Department of Defense and the CIA to work closer together, so it was a perfect fit."
We chose early on to employ a limited footprint in the Afghan theater backing up the Pushon fighters in the South and the Northern Alliance in the north.
De Long said of this strategy, "It worked like a champ.... We did our first battle up there at Mazar-e-Sharif. Mazar-e-Sharif fell and [after that northern Afghanistan] was like a bowling alley. All the other places — with a couple of exceptions — all we had to do is show up and [the Taliban] just folded."
DeLong said regarding the time frame after the north fell and then Kabul, "...we got word that Osama bin Laden with his leadership — what was left of it — could possibly be up in the Tora Bora mountains. We also got word the same day that he could be in Egypt." Reports poured in, some appeared reliable, that OBL could also be in Dubai or in Pakistan. Franks and DeLong concluded, based on the preponderance of the intelligence that OBL was in Tora Bora. U.S. forces couldn't invade Egypt, Pakistan, or Dubai, but they could take a shot at Tora Bora where a substantial number of al Qaeda — with or without bin Laden — were hiding. Once again, the Afghanis were integrated with the American and Coalition forces. Nobody "outsourced" the job to them.

Get your facts straight before you write in these threads….that way you won’t look so ignorant, and realize when you accuse our military of such things you disgrace yourself and yourside.

Richard

Chico, CA

#18 May 25, 2008
Here is a fact that no one needs to Google...If you actually believe the lies put out by the Bush Administration and their cronies in the media, you are a bonafide, card-carrying, fool.

“Keep it Real, ”

Since: Mar 08

Paradise

#19 May 25, 2008
Topic: "A Little Talking Doesn't Hurt"
However a NUKE would would settle the problem.
Brad Jenks

United States

#20 May 25, 2008
Gerry wrote:
<quoted text>
There were some 10 times (as told by an expert on TV) by Clinton and the CIA that did not get him. One such time Bin Laden was walking with an official from another country and the strike was called off.
If there was ever a time to get Bin Laden-then it would have to be after 9/11. We had the world on our side. And yet the Bush administration screwed that up.
Gerry please do a little research before you post or is your last name Sienfeld and you want your remarks to be laughed at? You seem to be trying to defend President Clinton and although I do not fault Clinton for not getting bin Laden in the case you cite, there were others. When we sent the missiles across Pakistan's air space to get bin Laden we sent our Ambassador to Pakistan to 'inform' their leader, Nawaz Sharif, those missiles were not a nuclear attack from India. Sharif left the room after the Ambassador told him and returned about 15 minutes later. Since his allegiance was far more associated with the Taliban than the U.S. do you think he was calling to warn bin Laden when he left the room? Bin laden and his gang were long gone by the time our missiles showed up about 2 hours later. We sent millions of dollars worth of cruise missiles to disturb the sand where bin Laden had been.
If President Clinton had simply deployed our stealth fighters and bombed bin Laden's camp we wouldn't be having this chit chat? Neither Pakistan nor the Afghanistan would have even known the stealth plane had crossed their air space….
But Gerry to be honest with you I don't even fault Clinton for this decision. Now if you'd like to hear about how his Justice Dept created a law (Jamie Gorelick's "the wall") that allowed the pilots who flew the plane into the Pentagon to enter the U.S. without the FBI hearing about it from the CIA (in fact the law prohibited the CIA from sharing that information) and how he had a meeting in March 2000 discussing the threat of "a substantial al Qaeda American network" which revealed "glaring weakness" in Justice Dept surveillance and FISA operations, then we should talk.
Since that March meeting gave a plan to interrupt and disrupt that "substantial al Qaeda American network" and none of those plans were put in place, that could be something worth our discussion. That meeting's report was named the "Millennium After Action Review" report, and since that was the report Sandy Berger stole the personal copies of the Clinton officials present at that meeting from the National Archives, that may also be worth discussing.
Since Clinton failed to share that meeting or the Millennium report with the incoming Bush Administration and then 9/11 occurred that may be of importance to discuss as well. What do ya think Gerry?
Gerry

Findlay, OH

#21 May 25, 2008
Brad Jenks wrote:
<quoted text>
Ignorance runs rampant on the net. You can "google" a lot of things on the net, but that doesn't make them true.
We had verification of Usama bin Laden's voice imprint discussing retreat and escape from Tora Bora. The Northern Alliance was already near there and Tommy Franks decided to unleash a enormous bombing campaign on that mountain while allowing the Northern Alliance to "clean up" and capture any "left overs."
"outsourced" the job to them.
Get your facts straight before you write in these threads….that way you won’t look so ignorant, and realize when you accuse our military of such things you disgrace yourself and yourside.
I try to keep my facts straight. There are many sources and many topics that I try to keep up on. There is a lot of politics going on and a person does not know what to believe.
In this case I watched the CIA ops Gary Berrnsten as a guest on the Larry King show, and he said he had Osama Bin Laden on the walkie talkie and knew his voice. In fact, he said that Osama knew that he was trapped and that he told his followers that he was sorry for getting them trapped. Gary Bernsten also said he radioed for help and was hoping for U.S. support and instead of the Afghan fighters. In any case, the Afghan fighters were sent in and some bought off and Osama Bin Laden escaped.
Now as far as Osama Bin Laden being there or in Timbuktu, I have heard this from General Franks. Sounds like he tried to cover his rear end on this one. I will take Gary Bernsten's word on it. Like everyone involved with the Bush administration, they try to cover their mistakes.

As I also recall watching the news at that time, that there was a lot of confusion of news reporting. I can recall that there was a major battle going on the Tora Bora region and helicopter was sent in to pick up some of our soldiers (or something to that effect). It took months to understand what really went on, and Gary Bernsten came on TV and told the story. Any other stories were hushed or covered up or like General Franks said he did not know where Osama Bin Laden was. For a battle like that, you would think he would know something, and all you get is "we don't know if Osama Bin Laden was there or not."

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