Prisoner swap revives debate in Israel over Lebanon war

[falasha]

All of you party animals celebrating with Kuntar better do it at a safe distance.

[Realist]

mohamed lion of God wrote:

<quoted text>
*all* israelis, male and female, join the army when they reach a certain age (18 i think), and engage in active military service.
however, not all palestinians above 18 have joined the palestinian armed factions and served in active combat against israel...
who's mainstream is more violent then?
it would be better if the palestinians applied that law though,for the differences between the two sides would be levelled, and they would be better able at defending themselves.

It shows the depth of deceit your side will stoop to to try and make your side seem better or more moral, to compare terrorists to soldiers is not worth discussing, oh and by the way, the Pals may not require military service, but what do you call using kids to recover your spent rocket launchers and mortar tubes, immoral, inhuman and cowardly.

[Double Standard]

Lipush wrote:

<quoted text>
The difference is, when an ISraelidoessomething like that, he gets behind bars.
When it's happening in Arabstates, they are celebrating.
no wonder those cases like you stated above- happen.

You missed the point, the point is that it just shows the mentality of many Jewish people when they honour such a terrorist that is also Jewish. What difference it on how they celebrate? It is their thought of the terrorist action that determines their being.

"The details of Goldstein's funeral as arranged through the office of President Weizman are significant. The facts below were taken mostly from the Ilana Baum and Tzvi Singer report, published in Yediot Ahronot on February, 28 1994. The funeral's first installment took place in Jerusalem. Among the estimated thousand mourners only a few were settlers from Kiryat Arba. Baum and Singer noted: "Without having met Goldstein personally, other mourners most of whom were Jerusalemites, were enthusiastic admirers of his deed. Many more were Yeshiva students. A large group represented the Chabad Hassidic movement, another group [consisted of anti-Zionist] Satmar Hassids." Other Hassidic movements were also well represented.(Not mentioned in the English-language press, Goldstein, a follower of Kahane, was also a follower of the Lubovitcher rabbi.) Baum and Singer continued:"

http://www.geocities.com/alabasters_archive/g...

[Double Standard]

"Before the start of the procession well-known rabbis eulogized Goldstein and commended the murder. Rabbi Israel Ariel, for example, said: "The holy martyr, Baruch Goldstein, is from now on our intercessor in heaven. Goldstein did not act as an individual; he heard the cry of the land of Israel, which is being stolen from us day after day by the Muslims. He acted to relieve that cry of the land!" Toward the end of his eulogy Rabbi Ariel added: "The Jews will inherit the land not by any peace agreement but only by shedding blood." Ben-Shoshan Yeshu'a, a Jewish underground member, sentenced to life imprisonment for murder and amnestied after a few years spent under luxurious hotel conditions, lauded Goldstein and praised his action as an example for other Jews to follow."

[Double Standard]

"The book in praise of Goldstein, titled Blessed the Male, was published in 1995 and sold in many editions. Most of the readers were from the religious public. The book contained eulogies of Goldstein and halachic justifications for the right of every Jew to kill non-Jews. Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh, the then head of the Kever Yosef (tomb of Joseph) Yeshiva, located on the outskirts of Nablus, wrote one chapter of that book. The essence of Rabbi Ginsburgh's views were presented in Chapter 4. His and other such ideologies, even if expressed more cautiously, explain Goldstein's massacre, the considerable support Goldstein and later his followers have received from religious Jews and the ambiguous attitude of Israeli governments to this crime. Those people, especially Germans, who were silent and did not condemn Nazi ideology before Hitler came to power are also, at least in a moral sense, guilty for the terrible consequences that followed. Similarly, those who are silent and do not condemn Jewish Nazism, as exemplified by the ideologies of Goldstein and Ginsburgh, especially if they are Jews, are guilty of the terrible consequences that may yet develop as a result of their silence."

[Realist]

Double Standard wrote:

"The book in praise of Goldstein, titled Blessed the Male, was published in 1995 and sold in many editions. Most of the readers were from the religious public. The book contained eulogies of Goldstein and halachic justifications for the right of every Jew to kill non-Jews. Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh, the then head of the Kever Yosef (tomb of Joseph) Yeshiva, located on the outskirts of Nablus, wrote one chapter of that book. The essence of Rabbi Ginsburgh's views were presented in Chapter 4. His and other such ideologies, even if expressed more cautiously, explain Goldstein's massacre, the considerable support Goldstein and later his followers have received from religious Jews and the ambiguous attitude of Israeli governments to this crime. Those people, especially Germans, who were silent and did not condemn Nazi ideology before Hitler came to power are also, at least in a moral sense, guilty for the terrible consequences that followed. Similarly, those who are silent and do not condemn Jewish Nazism, as exemplified by the ideologies of Goldstein and Ginsburgh, especially if they are Jews, are guilty of the terrible consequences that may yet develop as a result of their silence."

In 1999, following passage of a law designed to prohibit monuments to terrorists, and an associated Supreme Court ruling, the Israeli Army bulldozed the shrine and prayer area set up near Goldstein's grave.

So Israel addressed this issue, how about a similar action by the PA or Egypt, Jordan, Syria, etc...

[Realist]

Mr Truthiness wrote:

<quoted text>
The settlers keep rebuilding the shrine, the IDF knocks it down, and they put it back up again. It was there in 2004 when I was there last.
The bottom line is that just as many Jews worship zionist extremists and terrorists as the Palestinians do. There is no difference, except the jewish terrorists get better PR spin.

..just as many, I would defy you to prove that fiction, a few radicals in Israeli society do, even if percentages were true, that would be about 20:1 Arab radicals to Israeli. In addition the Israeli Government does the right thing, which Arab state does the same? They don't, they roll out red carpets.

[falasha]

Mr Truthiness wrote:

<quoted text>
The settlers keep rebuilding the shrine, the IDF knocks it down, and they put it back up again. It was there in 2004 when I was there last.
The bottom line is that just as many Jews worship zionist extremists and terrorists as the Palestinians do. There is no difference, except the jewish terrorists get better PR spin.

So you are Palestinian?

[Lipush]

mohamed lion of God wrote:

<quoted text>
very few of your killers are ever brought to account for your crimes.
have the killers of our children in the 1940's been arrestd? no, they were actually made leaders of israel.
were the killers of 20 000 lebanese civilians in beirut (during the israeli invasion of the 1980's) arrested? no.
so why shouldnt we celebrate the victory of kuntar's release?
still upset by his release lipush?
you and the rest of israel will not get over this defeat too soon!
here, watch this,a Hezbollah song which has lots of intresting footage,Hezbollah take-overs of israeli bases that used to be in south lebanon (there are many copies of this song at youtube, but i'll give you the one with the clearest pictures):
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
hope you enjoy it!
hahahaha!

Our country has no fear punishing people who crossed the line.
Soldiers who abused Palestinians were judged.
Every soldier who took place in the tradedy of Kfar Kassem is bahind bars.
and what YOU do? making a man that broke thehead of a 4 year old- a Hero.
Sad is the worldwith hero like this one.
And don't mistake think you have won.
you get 4 men who killed Jewish children.
each one of them a satan.
what we get is two bodies of noble soldiers who died in THEIR country while DEFENDING4 it.
we won, dear.
we won becauseit's better having sleeping angels then awaken devils.

[Lipush]

mohamed lion of God wrote:

<quoted text>
*all* israelis, male and female, join the army when they reach a certain age (18 i think), and engage in active military service.
however, not all palestinians above 18 have joined the palestinian armed factions and served in active combat against israel...
who's mainstream is more violent then?
it would be better if the palestinians applied that law though,for the differences between the two sides would be levelled, and they would be better able at defending themselves.

First, get your facts clear.
not EVERY maleand female goin the army.
actually, 30% of Israelis don't get drafted.
which is a shame.
and when people join hamas and Hezbollah, the weapon is part of them.
they fight and kill. that is all what Hezbollah and Hamas isall about. death.
But you don't have to be a fighter in theIDF> many people can become doctors, edvisers, teachers.
they don't use any violence while doing so.
while violenceis all that you teach in your organizations.
so you want to compare who is more violent?
learn some more and come back to me.

[mohamed lion of God]

falasha wrote:

All of you party animals celebrating with Kuntar better do it at a safe distance.

die in the flames of your angst,for kuntar is free!

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth...

Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).

Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."

more sources:
http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/talmud_tidbits...
http://www.jewishracism.com/Christian_Zionism...
http://www.talmudunmasked.com/
http://www.jewishracism.com/Jesus_Christ.pdf

[mohamed lion of God]

Realist wrote:

<quoted text>
In 1999, following passage of a law designed to prohibit monuments to terrorists, and an associated Supreme Court ruling, the Israeli Army bulldozed the shrine and prayer area set up near Goldstein's grave.
So Israel addressed this issue, how about a similar action by the PA or Egypt, Jordan, Syria, etc...

well, israel bulldozed one shrine, but brought a committer of massacres, sharon, to be a prime minister,and there most of the israelis who killed such large numbers of our children have yet to be dealt with...so why should we restrain those of us who fight your troops?

[mohamed lion of God]

Lipush wrote:

<quoted text>
Our country has no fear punishing people who crossed the line.
Soldiers who abused Palestinians were judged.
Every soldier who took place in the tradedy of Kfar Kassem is bahind bars.
and what YOU do? making a man that broke thehead of a 4 year old- a Hero.
Sad is the worldwith hero like this one.
And don't mistake think you have won.
you get 4 men who killed Jewish children.
each one of them a satan.
what we get is two bodies of noble soldiers who died in THEIR country while DEFENDING4 it.
we won, dear.
we won becauseit's better having sleeping angels then awaken devils.

what about those who massacred 20 000 lebanese civilians in beirut in the invasion of the 1980's?

what about the lebanese children your troops shot at clos range in lebanon during your invasion in the 1980's?

what about those who have started the mess by massacring hundreds of arabs and evicting hundreds of thousands of palestinians from their homes?

promotions ,maybe?

read the caption of the first chart on this page:

http://www.ifamericansknew.com/
:
"123 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,050 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000"

what about the killers of these children?

[falasha]

mohamed lion of God wrote:

<quoted text>
die in the flames of your angst,for kuntar is free!
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth...
Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).
Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.
Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."
more sources:
http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/talmud_tidbits...
http://www.jewishracism.com/Christian_Zionism...
http://www.talmudunmasked.com/
http://www.jewishracism.com/Jesus_Christ.pdf

You see, this is the problem. Those practices are primitive and we have evolved. You, however, are not allowed to evolve. "Mohammed knows best" is all you are allowed to know.

[mohamed lion of God]

Lipush wrote:

<quoted text>
Our country has no fear punishing people who crossed the line.
Soldiers who abused Palestinians were judged.
Every soldier who took place in the tradedy of Kfar Kassem is bahind bars.
and what YOU do? making a man that broke thehead of a 4 year old- a Hero.
Sad is the worldwith hero like this one.
And don't mistake think you have won.
you get 4 men who killed Jewish children.
each one of them a satan.
what we get is two bodies of noble soldiers who died in THEIR country while DEFENDING4 it.
we won, dear.
we won becauseit's better having sleeping angels then awaken devils.

well,we have less fear than you do...ask your elite commandoes who dropped thier weapons and equipment and ran away from Hezbollah troops in 2006.

the prisoners released were 5. kuntar,and 4 Hezbollah troops.

the 4 Hezbollah troops never killed any child in thier entire lives,nor do they intend to do so (unlike your commandoes, who drew pictures of themselves shooting lebanese babies in thir cradles in the walls of the houses they hid inside in th lebanese border towns...the israeli government didnt deny that)...

the 4 Hezbollah soldirs were too busy killing your commandoes in the war of 2006 to bother thinking too much about any children whatsoever! they got surrounded by the israelis, and they fought until they ran out of ammunition...then they were captured.this occured near the border,but later on Hezbollah evicted the israeli forces from the area. they've interviewed them on the almanar channel you see

as for kuntar...we wont even think of showing you the least of sympathy until we see your being punished for the thousands of children you have delibrately and mercilessly killed from 1948 upto the present day.you will never do that of course, for you beleive that our children are animals , the blood of whom is unworthy to be respected ... so you deserve someon like kuntar.

you celebrate people like sharon and barak,the hands of whom are imbued with the blood of thousands of children, so why shouldnt we consider kuntar to be a hero? he killed 6 others, and injured a high-ranking israeli officer.good enough!

sadly, we still show great self-restraint when we fight you...Hezbollah was easily able to massacre
20 000 israeli settlers who are living in settlements that are RIGHT AT THE BORDER...in spite of the unceasing barking of olmert and the rest of your military leaders that they want to 'totally eliminate Hezbollah's military capabilities', and ' depriving Hezbollah of the ability to fir rockets into israel',God's Grace enabled Hezbollah to successfuly defeat the immense israeli military efforts exerted to achieve the goals set by your leaders...

nothing could have stopped Hezbollah from firing all their rockets at the easy enemy civilian targets that are right at the border, instead of targeting military,industrial,and admnistrative targets that were contributing directly to the (failed) israeli war-effort.

Hezbollah declared that these rockets (zilzal,kheibar,and ra'ad rockets) are easily able to penetrate the best bunkers that the settlers in the border-settlements hid inside...after the war, the israeli's agreed.

so you see, nothing could have stopped Hezbollah from cleansing the earth of 20 000 settlers...but Hezbollah have an abidance to honor,and a veneration of virtue...two things you israelis can only dream of!

[mohamed lion of God]

Lipush wrote:

<quoted text>

we won, dear.
we won becauseit's better having sleeping angels then awaken devils.

once you called me a 'monster' and now you call me 'dear'...
have you been drinking something?

the sleeping angels are our children that you have slaughtered...the awaken devils are your leaders and those who follow and support them

you were defeatd in the most humilitaing way possibl... your leaders,analysts,officials and newspapers all agreed that israel was defeated by the its release of kuntar and the other 4...you know these things better than they do? prove it. tell us what they dont know.

kuntar was sentenced with 100 years (i dont know, but i heard that he was sentenced over 400 years.is this true,i dont know)... your leaders said that he would not be released, whatever happens! now they have been forced to break thier word in the most abject of humiliation before both their own people and the people of thier enemies.

you dont like it? good, lets laugh at you some more.

[mohamed lion of God]

Lipush wrote:

<quoted text>
First, get your facts clear.
not EVERY maleand female goin the army.
actually, 30% of Israelis don't get drafted.
which is a shame.
and when people join hamas and Hezbollah, the weapon is part of them.
they fight and kill. that is all what Hezbollah and Hamas isall about. death.
But you don't have to be a fighter in theIDF> many people can become doctors, edvisers, teachers.
they don't use any violence while doing so.
while violenceis all that you teach in your organizations.
so you want to compare who is more violent?
learn some more and come back to me.

do you want me to go and bring your legal documents that require very man and woman who has reached military-service age to go join and serve the army?

30 percent dont...yes, paralysed people,sick people,other excuses,etc.

the other 70% of your society though ,joins the army and engages in active warfare against us...how many palestinians join the armed organisations? 200 000 ? the palestinians (in gaza alone) are over 1 million ( 1 000 000 )
200 000 in 1 000 000 is 20 %.

20 % of them join the armed organisations (even less of them get the chance engage in active warfare against the israelis)...while 70% of you join the army,and engage in active warfare against us.

the rest of the 80% of the palestinian people do their best to support thier families,thus they stay away from warfare.

as for the lebanese...Hezbollah has a military wing, but bear in mind, the whole of south lebanon is successfuly administered by Hezbollah...the schools,universities,hospitals (with the latest equipment),factories,orphanage s,companies,banks,
everything (including the electricity,roads,communicatio ns,and plumbing )...all of this needs specialists and professionals,and this need is addressed by Hezbollah.Hezbollah has thousands of professionals who have excelled in thier fields of study to cater to the needs of the people of modern south lebanon...unlike your specialists who have spent some time fighting us, most of these Hezbollah specialists have no experience in fighting...Hezbollah leaves the fighting to the fighters,and the thinking to the thinkers...

see? you are more violent than we are

[mohamed lion of God]

falasha wrote:

<quoted text>
You see, this is the problem. Those practices are primitive and we have evolved. You, however, are not allowed to evolve. "Mohammed knows best" is all you are allowed to know.

the Holy Prophet (Peace b upon him and his Holy Household) merely encouraged us to do acts of good ,as well as exhorting us to refrain from committing acts of evil...simple advice that would make the world a safer,happier place for all.got a problem with that? surely, you want the accursed gentiles like me to toil at your feet,right?

concerning the talmud, falasha...the talmud is still considered a holy text with religious significance by many jews.

do you want to see the list of talmud-schools that are currently operating in israel?

[Jabadini]

mohamed lion of God wrote:

<quoted text>
do you want me to go and bring your legal documents that require very man and woman who has reached military-service age to go join and serve the army?
30 percent dont...yes, paralysed people,sick people,other excuses,etc.
the other 70% of your society though ,joins the army and engages in active warfare against us...how many palestinians join the armed organisations? 200 000 ? the palestinians (in gaza alone) are over 1 million ( 1 000 000 )
200 000 in 1 000 000 is 20 %.
20 % of them join the armed organisations (even less of them get the chance engage in active warfare against the israelis)...while 70% of you join the army,and engage in active warfare against us.
the rest of the 80% of the palestinian people do their best to support thier families,thus they stay away from warfare.
as for the lebanese...Hezbollah has a military wing, but bear in mind, the whole of south lebanon is successfuly administered by Hezbollah...the schools,universities,hospitals (with the latest equipment),factories,orphanage s,companies,banks,
everything (including the electricity,roads,communicatio ns,and plumbing )...all of this needs specialists and professionals,and this need is addressed by Hezbollah.Hezbollah has thousands of professionals who have excelled in thier fields of study to cater to the needs of the people of modern south lebanon...unlike your specialists who have spent some time fighting us, most of these Hezbollah specialists have no experience in fighting...Hezbollah leaves the fighting to the fighters,and the thinking to the thinkers...
see? you are more violent than we are

You are coming from an interesting side of the conflict.
What is your issue that Israel exists or that the Palestinians don't have a state?
Do you believe in the Islamic view that once land is conquered by Islam then it must always stay islamic?
How can you be so sure what you say is fact, you seem to sure that you are always correct?

Most of the Israeli army is not fighters about 20% are. So out of the 70% who go the army only 20% of them are in fighter units.
Do you consider yourself part of Hizballah caos you talk as we not them?
Hizballah have made it very clear their aim is to destroy Israel, they ONLY targeted civilian infrastructure in the war attacking Israel cities.
There is proof with video and pictures of Hizballah using civilian areas to shoot missiles from including appartment buildings.

[Jabadini]

mohamed lion of God wrote:

<quoted text>
the Holy Prophet (Peace b upon him and his Holy Household) merely encouraged us to do acts of good ,as well as exhorting us to refrain from committing acts of evil...simple advice that would make the world a safer,happier place for all.got a problem with that? surely, you want the accursed gentiles like me to toil at your feet,right?
concerning the talmud, falasha...the talmud is still considered a holy text with religious significance by many jews.
do you want to see the list of talmud-schools that are currently operating in israel?

If you see islam as such a peacefull religion why are tens of thousands being massacred around the world by Muslims in over 50 countries?
Why are most of the terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims?
Why do most Muslim countries preach hatred to the west, Christianity, Judaism, budism etc. This includes the media, and education system.
Do you not think it is a problem that the Palestinian leadership is brainwashing a million children that their aim in life is to kill Jews and Jihad, they deny that Jews ever lived in on the land even though Jews have continuously for thousands of years.
If you have a point and you are in the right there is no need for lies. but when Al-Durah shooting Which was proven to be staged, and Jenin massacre which was proven to never have happened are used around the world to incite hatred towards Israel.
If its so clear who is to blame then why are lies used, Pallywood, doctoring photos for the media, making whole documentaries based on lies?

While Talmud is learnt throughout the religious world in Judaism it is not practised? You can obviously find the odd one who followed it but they are considered crazy. Especially the quotes you bring up.