Whiff of Eugenics: Ginsburg Tells NYT Roe Was About 'Populations ...

[knitter for life]

Fruitcake Helper wrote:

Here's the amusing part about Granny Ginsburg. In this current president's "healtcare plan" this 75 year old ninny would be given a year's supply of Dilaudid suppositories and told "Have a nice year in la-la land!" Too old and cranky for pancreatic cancer treatment. What would Sanger think about that I wonder.

Thats very good

[Ocean56]

Cpetr13 wrote:

Shall we disband the united states? It was founded on racism, slavery, and the slaughter of the natives.
In the twenties, eugenics was a popular notion among many well-respected people. Poverty was seen as a form of inherent and moral weakness. Of course, she was also watching women who were killing themselves by having too many children with no right to birth control and no money for food much less medical care.
BTW--like most PLM'ers, you don't bother to READ the information. Sanger's mission was to make BIRTH CONTROL available, not abortion.

Exactly, CPetr. Sanger hated abortion, as it was a very dangerous procedure for women at that time. She wanted to PREVENT unwanted pregnancy as much as humanly possible, by making contraception available to the average working woman, who usually did NOT have access to doctors that wealthy women did.

In her book Woman and the New Race, Sanger published several of the letters she had received from women who were suffering from ill health, stress from having to care for too many children, and financial worries from not having enough income to provide for all the children they had. Those letters were published in Chapter 6 of her book.

[Cpetr13]

She can't enslave women by liberating them. You, on the other hand, are enslaved by the pope.

knitting and praying wrote:

<quoted text>Sanger enslaved women. She is in a sense,an anti- Christ figure.

[Ocean56]

knitting and praying wrote:

<quoted text>Sanger enslaved women. She is in a sense,an anti- Christ figure.

No, Knutter, Sanger FREED women from the miseries of being little more than brood mares because prior to that time there was no contraception available. Of course the church of cruelty and oppression (the rcc) hated Sanger. She provided women with something the church did NOT want women to have.

Since you're one of those anti-contraception nutcases as well, I can and will cheerfully dismiss all of your moronic beliefs about Sanger. Anyone with a functioning brain knows that PREVENTION of unwanted pregnancy using reliable contraception is far better than abortion.

[Cpetr13]

Isn't it time to go suck down that spoiled sacramental wine?

knitting and praying wrote:

<quoted text>I can tell that Ole Scratch has deceived you. You are drinking up his kool-aid quite fast buddy boy.

[Cpetr13]

Oh please. GM workers are mostly conservative. Unions are not necessarily run by dems; the bottom line is getting the most they can out of the company. That sounds like capitalism to me, btw.

I didn't pay a lot of attention to your sanger quotes because, unlike you, I've read the entire works.

Eristotle wrote:

<quoted text>
Gm became a hotbed of Democrats when the UAW took on partial ownership of that company.
Really didn't spend much time thinking about the consequences of the Margaret Sanger quotes I posted,did you?
There was no ambiguity in her statements.
Your presumptions are your own.

[Eristotle]

Cpetr13 wrote:

Oh please. GM workers are mostly conservative. Unions are not necessarily run by dems; the bottom line is getting the most they can out of the company. That sounds like capitalism to me, btw.
I didn't pay a lot of attention to your sanger quotes because, unlike you, I've read the entire works.
<quoted text>

OOOh, puh-leaze...unions give 99% campaign donations to Democrats..........is there ANYBODY here with some intellectual honesty????

It's not the abortion and birth control I fault Margaret Sanger for...It's her reasons for wanting abortion and birth control and who she intended it to be used on, which she adequately stated in the posts I provided.

[C Hamilton]

Eristotle wrote:

<quoted text>
OOOh, puh-leaze...unions give 99% campaign donations to Democrats..........is there ANYBODY here with some intellectual honesty????
It's not the abortion and birth control I fault Margaret Sanger for...It's her reasons for wanting abortion and birth control and who she intended it to be used on, which she adequately stated in the posts I provided.

You "adequately" stated nothing. You pulled a few lines (likely from a PL website) that you try to pass off as in context. Like Cpetr, I'm betting that you haven't bothered to read the full texts.

[Eristotle]

C Hamilton wrote:

<quoted text>You "adequately" stated nothing. You pulled a few lines (likely from a PL website) that you try to pass off as in context. Like Cpetr, I'm betting that you haven't bothered to read the full texts.

What part of "IN HER OWN WORDS" do you wish to deny?

Please put these Margaret Sanger Quotes in context.
These are all PUBLISHED QUOTES from Margaret Sanger:

"Birth control: to create a race of thoroughbreds."
—Margaret Sanger, Birth Control Review, November 1921,(vol. V, no. 11); p.2.

"More children from the fit, less from the unfit—that is the chief aim of birth control."
—Margaret Sanger, Birth Control Review, May 1919 (vol. III, no. 5); p.12.

"The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal.
We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population,
and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs
to any of their more rebellious members."
— Margaret Sanger, letter to Clarence Gamble, Dec. 10,1939.- Sanger manuscripts, Sophia Smith Collection, Smith College.(Dec. 10 is the correct date of the letter. There is a different date circulated, e.g. Oct. 19, 1939; but Dec. 10 is the correct date of Ms Sanger's letter to Mr. Gamble.)

"Before eugenists and others who are laboring for racial betterment can succeed,
they must first clear the way for Birth Control. Like the advocates of Birth Control,
the eugenists, for instance, are seeking to assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit.
Both are seeking a single end but they lay emphasis upon different methods.…"
—Margaret Sanger, "Birth Control and Racial Betterment." Birth Control Review,
February 1919,(vol. III, no. 2); p. 11.

"Those least fit to carry on the race are increasing most rapidly.… Funds that should be
used to raise the standard of our civilization are diverted to maintenance of those who
should never have been born."
—Margaret Sanger, Pivot of Civilization, p.279.

"Today, however, civilization has brought sympathy, pity, tenderness …. We are now in a state where our charities, our compensation acts, our pensions, hospitals, and even our drainage and sanitary equipment all tend to keep alive the sickly and the weak, who are allowed to propagate and in turn produce a race of degenerates."
—Margaret Sanger, "Birth Control and Women's Health." Birth Control Review,
December 1917,(vol. I, no. 12); p. 7.

"It now remains for the United States government to set a sensible example to the
world by offering a bonus or a yearly pension to all obviously unfit parents who allow
themselves to be sterilized by harmless and scientific means."
—Margaret Sanger, "The Function of Sterilization." Birth Control Review,
October 1926,(vol. X, no. 10); p. 299.

"I visited hospitals in this city, and found them lacking in the simple and most ordinary
article of decency. No soap, no cod-liver oil …. This has given rise to skin trouble,
and the poor little waifs are a sad, miserable lot. It would be a great kindness to let them
die outright, I believe."
—Margaret Sanger. "Women in Germany." Birth Control Review, January 1921,
(vol. V, no. 1); p. 9.

"Knowledge of birth control is essentially moral. Its general, though prudent, practice
must lead to a higher individuality and ultimately to a cleaner race..."
—Margaret Sanger, "Morality and Birth Control." Birth Control Review,
February-March 1918,(vol. II, nos. 2 and 3); p. 14.

[Ladidio]

Ocean56 wrote:

<quoted text>
No, Knutter, Sanger FREED women from the miseries of being little more than brood mares because prior to that time there was no contraception available. Of course the church of cruelty and oppression (the rcc) hated Sanger. She provided women with something the church did NOT want women to have.
Since you're one of those anti-contraception nutcases as well, I can and will cheerfully dismiss all of your moronic beliefs about Sanger. Anyone with a functioning brain knows that PREVENTION of unwanted pregnancy using reliable contraception is far better than abortion.

k&p is personally responsible for numerous abortions because of her anti-contraception stance.

[Eristotle]

Ladidio wrote:

<quoted text>
k&p is personally responsible for numerous abortions because of her anti-contraception stance.

Seeking to lay blame someplace or on someone other than who is at fault only compounds the problem...you've added to that problem

[Ladidio]

Eristotle wrote:

<quoted text>
Seeking to lay blame someplace or on someone other than who is at fault only compounds the problem...you've added to that problem

Nope.

You have no problem with blaming PC folks for all the abortions that take place.

Don't like the logic? Then don't USE it.

Hypocrite.

[Ladidio]

nebrsista wrote:

<quoted text>Now, that is just plain stupid.

You sure are.

[Ladidio]

I rest my case.

[Fruitcake Helper]

Cpetr13 wrote:

Isn't it time to go suck down that spoiled sacramental wine?
<quoted text>

Your breath stinks of hate.

[Cpetr13]

You are talking about the union leaders; of course they give to the dems. The GOP is squarely on the management's side. But the WORKERS are mostly conservative. Do you know any auto workers? I do.

Snger didn't say a word about abortion; she was only interested in birth control. As for her reasons; who cares? Christ, she's been dead for decades. You think they hold seances to get their orders or something? And since neither bc nor abortion are forced on anyone, motives are relevant only in the case of the women who want to abort--and those reasons are none of your business.

Eristotle wrote:

<quoted text>
OOOh, puh-leaze...unions give 99% campaign donations to Democrats..........is there ANYBODY here with some intellectual honesty????
It's not the abortion and birth control I fault Margaret Sanger for...It's her reasons for wanting abortion and birth control and who she intended it to be used on, which she adequately stated in the posts I provided.

[Cpetr13]

I( already explained the concept of eugenics as conceived of in this country in that time. She is talking about fit and unfit int he context of poverty--at the time considered as much a moral and genetic failure as an economic state.
If you erad the entire letter that contains "We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population,..." She is talking about bc for the poor--not the entire negro race. That is what she is referring to--she doesn't want rumors to go out that they want to kill off all blacks. And you are a prime example of why she didn't want that rumor to get out--because people like to embrace negatives regardless of the truth. Your very next quote shows that she is trying to "better" the race, not eliminate it.
In fact, much of her quotes here are in tune with republican arguments against welfare, "responsible" sex, and unfit parenting.

Eristotle wrote:

<quoted text>
What part of "IN HER OWN WORDS" do you wish to deny?
Please put these Margaret Sanger Quotes in context.
These are all PUBLISHED QUOTES from Margaret Sanger:
"Birth control: to create a race of thoroughbreds."
—Margaret Sanger, Birth Control Review, November 1921,(vol. V, no. 11); p.2.
"More children from the fit, less from the unfit—that is the chief aim of birth control."
—Margaret Sanger, Birth Control Review, May 1919 (vol. III, no. 5); p.12.
"The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal.
We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population,
and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs
to any of their more rebellious members."
— Margaret Sanger, letter to Clarence Gamble, Dec. 10,1939.- Sanger manuscripts, Sophia Smith Collection, Smith College.(Dec. 10 is the correct date of the letter. There is a different date circulated, e.g. Oct. 19, 1939; but Dec. 10 is the correct date of Ms Sanger's letter to Mr. Gamble.)
"Before eugenists and others who are laboring for racial betterment can succeed,
they must first clear the way for Birth Control. Like the advocates of Birth Control,
the eugenists, for instance, are seeking to assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit.
Both are seeking a single end but they lay emphasis upon different methods.…"
—Margaret Sanger, "Birth Control and Racial Betterment." Birth Control Review,
February 1919,(vol. III, no. 2); p. 11.
"Those least fit to carry on the race are increasing most rapidly.… Funds that should be
used to raise the standard of our civilization are diverted to maintenance of those who
should never have been born."
—Margaret Sanger, Pivot of Civilization, p.279.
"Today, however, civilization has brought sympathy, pity, tenderness …. We are now in a state where our charities, our compensation acts, our pensions, hospitals, and even our drainage and sanitary equipment all tend to keep alive the sickly and the weak, who are allowed to propagate and in turn produce a race of degenerates."
—Margaret Sanger, "Birth Control and Women's Health." Birth Control Review,
December 1917,(vol. I, no. 12); p. 7.
"It now remains for the United States government to set a sensible example to the
world by offering a bonus or a yearly pension to all obviously unfit parents who allow
themselves to be sterilized by harmless and scientific means."
—Margaret Sanger, "The Function of Sterilization." Birth Control Review,
October 1926,(vol. X, no. 10); p. 299.
"I visited hospitals in this city, and found them lacking in the simple and most ordinary
article of decency. No soap, no cod-liver oil …. This has given rise to skin trouble,
and the poor little waifs are a sad, miserable lot. It would be a great kindness to let them
die outright, I believe."
—Margaret Sanger. "Women in Germany." Birth Control Review, January 1921,...

[Cpetr13]

You;re blaming today's PP for the theories of Margaret Sanger. What's the difference?

BTW--can you not spell or are you an acolyte of the greek goddess Eris (discord)?

Eristotle wrote:

<quoted text>
Seeking to lay blame someplace or on someone other than who is at fault only compounds the problem...you've added to that problem

[Cpetr13]

No, he didn't, but thanks for adding that one last lie to lubricate your slide into hell.

knittingandpraying wrote:

"I visited hospitals in this city, and found them lacking in the simple and most ordinary
article of decency. No soap, no cod-liver oil …. This has given rise to skin trouble,
and the poor little waifs are a sad, miserable lot. It would be a great kindness to let them
die outright, I believe."
—Margaret Sanger. "Women in Germany." Birth Control Review, January 1921,
(vol. V, no. 1); p. 9. didn't Obama say something similar about older people? that the hopsitals should just give olde people an extradose of pain killer and getit over with? this country is going down hill very fast.

[Cpetr13]

No problem; I'll just draw a happy face on a tic-tac.

Frigging moron.

Fruitcake Helper wrote:

<quoted text>
Your breath stinks of hate.