No health insurance? Pay a fine

[Freedom still]

They need to stop allowing those drug companies to take a tax break on the Advertising. Give us a tax break for buying the meds!

[Paparounis]

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

<quoted text>
Economics 101 for junior high school students...maybe grade school students.
There are no rights end here and there and look, see there is a big chalk line that marks the boundary. That's just silly.
If your neighbor gets a highly contagious disease but can't afford health care what are you going to do when he sends the contagious kids to school with your kids or meets you at the grocery store? Hide? Run? Have him arrested for assaulting with a virus?
What?
I want to adopt the system that, right here and right now, works much better than the junk we have here. That makes me a good consumer. I want to pay $300 and get $300, not $100 or $150 worth of goods and services.
Why don't you?

Enough with your anecdotes. Where did my "neighbor" contract the disease to begin with? Why is it my responsibility to see that he doesn't? Where do you get off deciding what the goods and services of another are worth?

Yes, one's rights end exactly where another's begin. I don't have a right to your property, regardless of desire, perceived "need", or misplaced sense of justice.

[Paparounis]

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

<quoted text>
I'll take them over your right wing liars and swiftboat scum any day of the week. Why are you so afraid of the truth?

The truth is you have embraced false justification for your ugly prejudices, and it is exceeded only by your desire to intoxicate yourself with your own prose.

[Paparounis]

R U kidding wrote:

What do you want ? Applause ! Why did your family come here ? OH YEA it was a better standard of living than what they had. Are you suggesting we regress to high infant mortality and an average lifespan in the 40's or 50's ? We all have our battles. My father grew up during the depression in the south. Shoes were a luxury for him as a youth. I've never taken a dime of welfare and I have my proirities set right. I have a roof over my family and food in the cabinets and a car to get back and forth to earn the money to pay for those. Try getting a job without transportation. My home is very modest(cheaper than rent),my car is almost 5yrs. Not much left to cut to afford insurance that is more expensive than my house payment. Your nothing special just self centered. If we don't get some kind of system in place to care for all our people the govt. will get more involved. No way around it. We already pick up the tab for medicare/medicade and the losses of the hospitals dealing with the uninsured. Your way of thinking is adding fuel to the fire your trying to put out. I bet your parents didn't have insurance for most of their lives. I also bet a trip to the dr. office and an perscription for a sore throat didn't cost over a hundred bucks either. As out of order as you percieve my thinking, yours is dangerously out of touch with reality.

Who is seeking applause? You insinuated I was wealthy and out of touch. You're dead wrong on all counts, including the crack about my parents being uninsured most of their lives.

My newest vehicle IS 5 years old, and my house is comfortable, but not large or fancy.

I'm not suggesting any regression here whatsoever, which is why I maintain my opposition to lower the health care standards of 85% of the population in order to insure the other 15%... especially when 43% of the uninsured can afford their own.

[Oregon Is Disgusting]

Paparounis wrote:

<quoted text>
Who is seeking applause? You insinuated I was wealthy and out of touch. You're dead wrong on all counts, including the crack about my parents being uninsured most of their lives.
My newest vehicle IS 5 years old, and my house is comfortable, but not large or fancy.
I'm not suggesting any regression here whatsoever, which is why I maintain my opposition to lower the health care standards of 85% of the population in order to insure the other 15%... especially when 43% of the uninsured can afford their own.

Who is lowering anything?

The USA ranks 36th in the world in health care results. Whoopee alert the media.

The USA ranks first in cost though.

Aren't you a capitalist? Why aren't you for a system that will give a big boost to our economy and save us big money to boot.

Unless you have several million cash in the bank, you and everyone else is just a serious illness from bankruptcy and impoverishment. Think you are covered? Think again.

[Oregon Is Disgusting]

Paparounis wrote:

<quoted text>
The truth is you have embraced false justification for your ugly prejudices, and it is exceeded only by your desire to intoxicate yourself with your own prose.

I dislike the Swift Boating Scumbags. That isn't prejudice, that is justified revulsion.

[Oregon Is Disgusting]

Paparounis wrote:

<quoted text>
Enough with your anecdotes. Where did my "neighbor" contract the disease to begin with? Why is it my responsibility to see that he doesn't? Where do you get off deciding what the goods and services of another are worth?
Yes, one's rights end exactly where another's begin. I don't have a right to your property, regardless of desire, perceived "need", or misplaced sense of justice.

Ask your neighbor where he caught meningitis or swine flu, I am sure he can pinpoint the exact time and place. Baloney, baloney, baloney about your rights.

You do not have 'the right' to have employer paid health insurance not taxed as regular income. That is just the convention of legislation and nothing more.

You do not have 'the right' to have people chip in to educate and support your children. That is just circumstance.

You have no imagination and no clue.

[Oregon Is Disgusting]

R U kidding wrote:

I've had insurance all my life until the last 6 months. You can turn your back on the problem and when we have universal healthcare you'll be crying about the cost. What the problem is people like you are out of touch with the reality of not being able to afford healthcare. Do you think healthcare should only be for the wealthy ? Cobra coverage was going to cost me over half of my present income. So I could live in a box and have insurance or do like alot of folks and go to the E.R. and not pay or go bankrupt and let you pay for it anyway. I would much rather pay my own way. I always have. You folks act like healthcare is like owning a boat. This is not a luxury, we all need it. With the wealth this country has no one should be homeless,uninsured or hungry.

Single payer health care (not the public option) lowers costs for all. It is significantly cheaper than what we have today.

It doesn't cost anyone one red cent more than they pay today (indeed it is much less) to have everyone covered. It isn't about cost, it is just a deep-seated lack of decency.

[R U kidding]

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

<quoted text>
Single payer health care (not the public option) lowers costs for all. It is significantly cheaper than what we have today.
It doesn't cost anyone one red cent more than they pay today (indeed it is much less) to have everyone covered. It isn't about cost, it is just a deep-seated lack of decency.

Agreed !

[Paparounis]

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

<quoted text>
Ask your neighbor where he caught meningitis or swine flu, I am sure he can pinpoint the exact time and place. Baloney, baloney, baloney about your rights.
You do not have 'the right' to have employer paid health insurance not taxed as regular income. That is just the convention of legislation and nothing more.
You do not have 'the right' to have people chip in to educate and support your children. That is just circumstance.
You have no imagination and no clue.

I have the right to negotiate the method and amount of compensation for my labor. As long as my employer and I both agree, we do business. As for my right to not have health benefits taxed as income, that is another issue entirely. There is much more fault with the tax code than just this one item.

Oh, and my neighbors are healthy. It's your anecdote, not mine.

[Paparounis]

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

<quoted text>
I dislike the Swift Boating Scumbags. That isn't prejudice, that is justified revulsion.

Again, with the false justification.

[Paparounis]

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

<quoted text>
Who is lowering anything?
The USA ranks 36th in the world in health care results. Whoopee alert the media.
The USA ranks first in cost though.
Aren't you a capitalist? Why aren't you for a system that will give a big boost to our economy and save us big money to boot.
Unless you have several million cash in the bank, you and everyone else is just a serious illness from bankruptcy and impoverishment. Think you are covered? Think again.

Do the math. Same number of health care professionals treating 46 million more patients equals less care per patient. Currently doctors spend about 15 minutes per patient per visit. That time will be reduced to 12.5 minutes. This is the best case scenario, assuming the currently uninsured do not seek care more often than the currently insured, and also assuming we will have the same number of doctors continuing to practice. Neither is likely to remain the same.

As for the rankings... totally bogus. Canada was ranked 30th. We have a much higher doctor to patient ratio, the same with diagnostic equipment, and a much better success rate with serious illnesses such as cancer.

[Living In Margaritaville]

A fine you say???? sh!t I'll do the jail time for not having insurance or paying the fine.......... 3 meals a day, an exercise yard and all on the very tax payers who dream this sh!t up..........

[R U kidding]

Paparounis wrote:

<quoted text>
Do the math. Same number of health care professionals treating 46 million more patients equals less care per patient. Currently doctors spend about 15 minutes per patient per visit. That time will be reduced to 12.5 minutes. This is the best case scenario, assuming the currently uninsured do not seek care more often than the currently insured, and also assuming we will have the same number of doctors continuing to practice. Neither is likely to remain the same.
As for the rankings... totally bogus. Canada was ranked 30th. We have a much higher doctor to patient ratio, the same with diagnostic equipment, and a much better success rate with serious illnesses such as cancer.

Your statement can also be read as you want to keep a good percentage of people away from healthcare for fear it might cut your access or increase your wait time at the Dr's office. I get that impression about you anyway.

[Oregon Is Disgusting]

Paparounis wrote:

<quoted text>
I have the right to negotiate the method and amount of compensation for my labor. As long as my employer and I both agree, we do business. As for my right to not have health benefits taxed as income, that is another issue entirely. There is much more fault with the tax code than just this one item.
Oh, and my neighbors are healthy. It's your anecdote, not mine.

Actually you do not have the right to negotiate the method and amount of compensation for your labor. Are you Spitzer?

You have such a narrow minded view of the world. There is no such thing as a free market and the government is there to try (when it is working properly) and level the field between an individual and a powerful organization like a corporation.

Heaven forbid that you shouldn't be thrown into the cold without COBRA and minimum wage and OSHA and the like. You people are constantly trying to make live worse...mostly for other people but sometimes even for yourselves.

This is one of many reasons why you can't govern without destroying everything in your path.

[Oregon Is Disgusting]

Paparounis wrote:

<quoted text>
Do the math. Same number of health care professionals treating 46 million more patients equals less care per patient. Currently doctors spend about 15 minutes per patient per visit. That time will be reduced to 12.5 minutes. This is the best case scenario, assuming the currently uninsured do not seek care more often than the currently insured, and also assuming we will have the same number of doctors continuing to practice. Neither is likely to remain the same.
As for the rankings... totally bogus. Canada was ranked 30th. We have a much higher doctor to patient ratio, the same with diagnostic equipment, and a much better success rate with serious illnesses such as cancer.

Doctors spend up to 1/3rd of their time arguing with insurance companies and filling out a plethora of forms for said insurance companies. Get rid of the insurance companies, go to a single form, a single set of diagnostic codes, a single method of reimbursement, a single phone call to make.

Doctors and hospitals and the system in its entirety would save so much time they can take care of all of the uninsured, all of the under insured and still have time for an extra round of golf on Wednesdays.

[Oregon Is Disgusting]

Paparounis wrote:

<quoted text>
Again, with the false justification.

You think that the Swift Boat Scumbags denigrating military medals is a good idea?

[Paparounis]

R U kidding wrote:

<quoted text>Your statement can also be read as you want to keep a good percentage of people away from healthcare for fear it might cut your access or increase your wait time at the Dr's office. I get that impression about you anyway.

Not at all. OID believes the quality of health care will not be lowered. I only pointed out that mathematically, it is the only possible outcome.

[Paparounis]

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually you do not have the right to negotiate the method and amount of compensation for your labor. Are you Spitzer?
You have such a narrow minded view of the world. There is no such thing as a free market and the government is there to try (when it is working properly) and level the field between an individual and a powerful organization like a corporation.
Heaven forbid that you shouldn't be thrown into the cold without COBRA and minimum wage and OSHA and the like. You people are constantly trying to make live worse...mostly for other people but sometimes even for yourselves.
This is one of many reasons why you can't govern without destroying everything in your path.

Yes, I have the right. We all do. Anything else is called "slavery", or at the very least, "indentured servitude".

COBRA would be useless and non-existent if we all owned our own policies. Single-payer is an affront to this approach, which worked very well years ago.

Minimum wage is a joke. It needs to be abolished. If poverty could be legislated out of existence, it would have happened by now. Minimum wage serves no useful purpose, except to increase government cash flow. Increasing minimum wage needlessly increases the cost of goods and services, least affordable by minimum wage earners, while their withholdings increase disproportionately. Sure, they get it back annually, but their bills are due monthly; sometimes weekly. And they NEVER get back the increased FICA "contributions".

OSHA? A cake walk. Typically, the state version of OSHA (yes, duplication in bureaucracy) is the one with rabid teeth. We can do without OSHA, since each state has their own.

Now then... can you get down off your self-serving, overly judgemental throne long enough to define "you people"? I believe the correct term is, "We the people".

[Paparounis]

Oregon Is Disgusting wrote:

<quoted text>
Doctors spend up to 1/3rd of their time arguing with insurance companies and filling out a plethora of forms for said insurance companies. Get rid of the insurance companies, go to a single form, a single set of diagnostic codes, a single method of reimbursement, a single phone call to make.
Doctors and hospitals and the system in its entirety would save so much time they can take care of all of the uninsured, all of the under insured and still have time for an extra round of golf on Wednesdays.

The GOVERNMENT regulates and empowers the insurance companies, therefore, they are the root cause of wasteful inefficiencies. The CAUSE can never become the CURE!