BREAKING NEWS: House narrowly passes health care bill (10:30 p.m.)

[PlacitasRoy]

PoliticalQueen wrote:

This is the intro to a terrific 10 month old article about the horrible economic tragedy of RepubliCON rule.Take a look at the full article (complete with TERRIFIC graphs, charts, and lives links)and then come back and tell me what a great Dubya did!

Authored by: Linda J. Bilmes, a lecturer in public finance at Harvard University’s Kennedy School, is a former assistant secretary for administration, management, and budget in the U.S. Department of Commerce. And

Joseph E. Stiglitz is University Professor of Economics at Columbia University and winner of the 2001 Nobel Prize in Economics.

THE $10 TRILLION HANGOVER – PAYING THE PRICE FOR EIGHT YEARS OF BUSH

In the eight years since George W. Bush took office, nearly every component of the U.S. economy has deteriorated. The nation’s budget deficits, trade deficits, and debt have reached record levels. Unemployment and inflation are up, and household savings are down. Nearly 4 million manufacturing jobs have disappeared and, not coincidentally, 5 million more Americans have no health insurance. Consumer debt has almost doubled, and nearly one fifth of American homeowners are likely to owe more in mortgage debt than their homes are actually worth. Meanwhile, as we have reported previously, the final price for the war in Iraq is expected to reach at least $3 trillion.
As bad as things are, though, this is just the beginning. The Bush Administration not only has depressed the economy and racked up unprecedented debt; it also has made expensive new commitments to the Medicare Part D prescription drug program, to disability compensation and education benefits for veterans, to replenishing the military equipment consumed in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and simply to paying interest on the debt itself.
The president is not solely to blame for American profligacy, of course. Congress approved inequitable tax cuts and spending binges, and the Federal Reserve and other regulators, along with the mortgage industry and millions of consumers, share responsibility for the housing collapse. Nonetheless, the outgoing administration has made a series of unwise economic choices that together will add up to a burdensome legacy.

Using conservative assumptions, we calculate that the bill for Bush-era excess—the total new debt combined with the total new accrued obligations— amounts to $10.35 trillion. This legacy will have long-term consequences for America’s prosperity, but it also will weigh heavily and immediately on the Obama Administration, which will need to spend money fast to get the economy moving again.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/01/008233...

[PlacitasRoy]

oldnavy2001 wrote:

<quoted text> Roy: You are correct in the statement that there is no Section 7201 or 7203 in HR 3962. However, those are sections in the Internal Revenue Code (IRC). On page 196 of HR 3962, you will see that the IRC is amended to include an excise tax on those not maintaining adequate health insurance.
Now, refer to the IRC Section 7201 and 7203 and it talks about criminal penalties for those individuals who willfully fail to pay their taxes (the excise tax on failure to maintain health insurance).
Now, do you understand the "legalese" of the Congress? It does not have to be in the bill. All the bill has to do is amend a section of US Code and they are set.
The bill, in a convoluted way, does provide for civil and criminal penalties for failure to abide.

Naturally I am correct. I always am. And even going through extremely convoluted efforts to get to the REMOTE possibility of going to prison, it is only BY CHOICE. "willfully fail " Means "willfully failing" as in the legal definition:

"WILLFULLY - Committed voluntarily and purposely, with the specific intent to do something; voluntarily and intentionally assisting or advising another to do something that the person knows disobeys or disregards the law. A person does not act "willfully" if the person acts as a result of a good faith misunderstanding of the requirements of the law..... http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/w014.htm

My response remains accurate:
You OBVIOUSLY didn't read the friggin' bill or even do a word search on it.
In typical foxhole, dittohead, and teabagger fashion you were deceived by the Repugs’ misleading and deceptive press release. Your ignorance is appalling!
From the press release:
• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.
• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.”[page 3]
TRUTH: THERE IS NO SECTION 7203 OR 7201 IN H.R. 3962. The bill ends Section 3205.
Do a word search and you'll find "felony" only once in the bill, and you won't find "evasion" anywhere.
The only reference to "prison" is that prisoners are not eligible under the bill, and government officials who release confidential information can be imprisoned.
NEVER believe World Nut Daily, Drudge, Reich-wing hate radio or the Fox Falsifiers. You won't look quite as ignorant.

[PlacitasRoy]

oldnavy2001 wrote:

What's the matter Roy ... FACTS GOT YOUR TONGUE??

You put up a friggin' INSULTING, DECEPTIVE and FALSE post try to back peddle and admit your initial post was FALSE and think I;d avoid responding?

JezzzussHCHREYEST! You probably even believed Hannity when he spew this cr@p: Stewart mocks Hannity for inflating Bachman rally attendance, trying to pass 9-12 rally footage off as Bachmann rally footage. http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200911100063

No wonder foxholes are so friggin' ignorant!

[jimbob]

PlacitasRoy wrote:

<quoted text>
Naturally I am correct. I always am. And even going through extremely convoluted efforts to get to the REMOTE possibility of going to prison, it is only BY CHOICE. "willfully fail " Means "willfully failing" as in the legal definition:
"WILLFULLY - Committed voluntarily and purposely, with the specific intent to do something; voluntarily and intentionally assisting or advising another to do something that the person knows disobeys or disregards the law. A person does not act "willfully" if the person acts as a result of a good faith misunderstanding of the requirements of the law..... http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/w014.htm
My response remains accurate:
You OBVIOUSLY didn't read the friggin' bill or even do a word search on it.
In typical foxhole, dittohead, and teabagger fashion you were deceived by the Repugs’ misleading and deceptive press release. Your ignorance is appalling!
From the press release:
• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.
• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.”[page 3]
TRUTH: THERE IS NO SECTION 7203 OR 7201 IN H.R. 3962. The bill ends Section 3205.
Do a word search and you'll find "felony" only once in the bill, and you won't find "evasion" anywhere.
The only reference to "prison" is that prisoners are not eligible under the bill, and government officials who release confidential information can be imprisoned.
NEVER believe World Nut Daily, Drudge, Reich-wing hate radio or the Fox Falsifiers. You won't look quite as ignorant.

You are flat out wrong and no amount of copying and pasting will change the fact that one can end up in prison for not complying with the terms of the HCR via the IRS.

[PlacitasRoy]

jimbob wrote:

<quoted text>You are flat out wrong and no amount of copying and pasting will change the fact that one can end up in prison for not complying with the terms of the HCR via the IRS.

Naturally I am correct. I always am. And even going through extremely convoluted efforts to get to the REMOTE possibility of going to prison, it is only BY CHOICE. "willfully fail " Means "willfully failing" as in the legal definition:
"WILLFULLY - Committed voluntarily and purposely, with the specific intent to do something; voluntarily and intentionally assisting or advising another to do something that the person knows disobeys or disregards the law. A person does not act "willfully" if the person acts as a result of a good faith misunderstanding of the requirements of the law..... http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/w014.htm
My response remains accurate:
You OBVIOUSLY didn't read the friggin' bill or even do a word search on it.
In typical foxhole, dittohead, and teabagger fashion you were deceived by the Repugs’ misleading and deceptive press release. Your ignorance is appalling!
From the press release:
• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.
• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.”[page 3]
TRUTH: THERE IS NO SECTION 7203 OR 7201 IN H.R. 3962. The bill ends Section 3205.
Do a word search and you'll find "felony" only once in the bill, and you won't find "evasion" anywhere.
The only reference to "prison" is that prisoners are not eligible under the bill, and government officials who release confidential information can be imprisoned.
NEVER believe World Nut Daily, Drudge, Reich-wing hate radio or the Fox Falsifiers. You won't look quite as ignorant.

[Thomas F Schraad]

oldnavy2001 wrote:

<quoted text>
******
Roy:
You are correct in the statement that there is no Section 7201 or 7203 in HR 3962. However, those are sections in the Internal Revenue Code (IRC). On page 196 of HR 3962, you will see that the IRC is amended to include an excise tax on those not maintaining adequate health insurance.
Now, refer to the IRC Section 7201 and 7203 and it talks about criminal penalties for those individuals who willfully fail to pay their taxes (the excise tax on failure to maintain health insurance).
Now, do you understand the "legalese" of the Congress? It does not have to be in the bill. All the bill has to do is amend a section of US Code and they are set.
The bill, in a convoluted way, does provide for civil and criminal penalties for failure to abide.

Nice work oldnavy2001, "like they say, it is not in the bill", but it is in the details that will haunt us. Obama and Pelosi said "no abortions will be funded by the health bill" only to submit to kissing fannies by allowing an amendment not to fund abortion.

I wonder what else is in the bill that is not stated but it is in the details. I wonder how many Democrats that voted for the health bill know what you know.

2,000 pages to reform health care that will cost a bundle and help 10% of the people.