Consultant explains ADA to G'burg

When it comes to the Americans with Disabilities Act, Gettysburg business owners who worry about potential lawsuits should zero in on two words of the mammoth law.

[Howard_Gorrell]

I hope it will be the beginning!

[Clifford Payne]

Thank you for this excellent article on the Americans with Disabilities Act and how it affects the business community. Mr. Varhola was a superb choice for them to bring in, he is an experienced and knowlegable trainer.

As Mr. Varhola said, "business owners also have rights under the ADA". It's a shame that it took Ms. Phillips stream of lawsuits to get the owners to actually learn what their rights and obligations are.

Eligius Wachter deserves special kudos for taking the initiative to organize this event. The local Chamber of Commerce or perhaps local government should have taken this step years ago to assist businesses in learning about the American with Disabilities Act and how it affects them.

Now it is up to the business community to take the new information and apply it. I wish them nothing but sucess in their efforts to comply with this important Federal anti-discrimination law.

[Ed Kemper]

I hope this is only the first of many in the near future. The only way to avoid ADA lawsuits is to become compliant. Equal Access has been the law for many, many years. I hope this will help, only time will tell. Great start.

[Landlord]

The elephant in the room isn't Ms. Phillips herself, but the fact that ADA law allows her to file federal lawsuits against business owners and landlords, whether or not the changes she wants are readily achievable. It is so expensive to go into federal court that even if a property owner has a case that could be won hands down, it would literally bankrupt most of them to even make the argument. The best that can be hoped for under those conditions is a settlement.
Ms Phillips filed so many complains with the Human Relations Commisssion that it couldn't keep up with them. Then she got impatient and sued a whole bunch of us -- despite the fact that we were all trying to make improvements. All of us have had ramp plans in hand for a long time but a combination of the borough and the state Bureau of Labor & Industry have prevented us from going forward with them
SO despite the speakers soothing words about exceptions for those for whom ramps etc. are not "readily achievable," that means nothing as long as we can be dragged into federal court.

[Rick Frame]

It's great to finally see someone that "gets it" explaining it. I've been following this story and reading all of the uninformed comments, both by the well-intentioned as well as those that can only dream of a three digit IQ. Like Mr. Varhola stated the ADA isn't a building code and too few understand that. Too many people think the ADAAG (Americans with Disabilities Act Architectural Guidelines) is the law or the building code but it's not either, it's exactly what it says, guidelines to help business owners ensure that their products and services are available to the disabled community, i.e. the most possible customers.

Kudos to everyone that put this together and made it happen.

[Ed Kemper]

The question is not why she finds so many non-accessible businesses. The real question is why no one else sees them until after a complaint is filed. Where are the city's, the county's and state's ADA Coordinators? Why blame the disabled for these business owners ignoring civil rights laws for so many years?

[Rick Frame]

@Landlord: How long do you have to have "plans" to install ramps before you find it okay for someone to become impatient with being denied access? Is 19 years long enough? That's how long the ADA has been law. It was a gamble you were willing to take and you finally lost that gamble.

[Elaine Lake]

Kudo's are in order. Hopefully other cities, towns, and municipalities will see what the Gettysburg business community did last night and set up meetings like this for not only their businesses but for their own planning departments, city councils and other interested constituants.

Yes, it is aggravating for lawsuits to be filed, but instead of bitching about them and the person who has filed them, why not learn what your rights are and figure out a way to make yourself accessible to all disabled persons? I don't wish being disabled on anyone but why wait until you are in a wheelchair fulltime or suffering from visual difficulties or any number of mobility limiting issues to finally realize that you have spent decades discriminating against the very class of people you now belong to?

[wasting taxpayer dollars]

These frivolous lawsuits are a waste of taxpayer dollars. These buildings have been here much longer than 19 years. They are historic. Rushing to change them should not be a priority. Rushing to limit lawsuits such as these should be a priority. It's unbelievable how we as a society have become so willing to put up with such stunts. Complainant is definitely the word to describe this woman as she's a world class complainer. If she were a true activist, she would be working with these people to create change. But why should she? She lives in Maryland, for crying out loud!

[Rick Frame]

@wasting taxpayer dollars: you're a perfect example of the uninformed commentor, and not the well-intentioned kind. The ADA is 19 years old, these buildings are older than 19 years, but the ADA requires all buildings to be accessible, there is no grandfather clause. All -- small word, big meaning. Let me see if I can help you out here... all buildings built after the requirements of the ADA must be fully compliant, buildings built before the ADA still required to be compliant but have fewer requirements, buildings that are actually designated "Historical" are still required to be accessible but have fewer requirements still.

You are right about one thing, taxpayer dollars need to quit being wasted ergo business owners need to make their businesses accessible like the law says. By the way, how is it the person enforcing the law has become the bad guy and the person breaking the law has become the victim???

[oh no]

Rick Frame wrote:

@wasting taxpayer dollars: you're a perfect example of the uninformed commentor, and not the well-intentioned kind. The ADA is 19 years old, these buildings are older than 19 years, but the ADA requires all buildings to be accessible, there is no grandfather clause. All -- small word, big meaning. Let me see if I can help you out here... all buildings built after the requirements of the ADA must be fully compliant, buildings built before the ADA still required to be compliant but have fewer requirements, buildings that are actually designated "Historical" are still required to be accessible but have fewer requirements still.
You are right about one thing, taxpayer dollars need to quit being wasted ergo business owners need to make their businesses accessible like the law says. By the way, how is it the person enforcing the law has become the bad guy and the person breaking the law has become the victim???

You are just another liberal Dem trying to support a poorly written and unjust law. The time has come to take action and take back our country.

[Ed Kemper]

oh no;

Yah you tell 'em. Let's go back to the good 'ol days. When was that? The 40's, 50's or early 60's? When "you" had all the control over everyone else? You were still allowed to put others in their place?

[E Wachter]

It seems that the city is generally growing in the direction of accommodating disabled people, and this is a good thing. However, there is a clear problem with businesses and landlords being able to afford it. Maybe we could team up and find a way to ask the Fed for a grant to cover alterations of local businesses. Would anyone out on the WWW be able to direct us locals here in Gettysburg to a grantwriter or method of doing this, to help local business owners.
The other issues were people acting to renovate without legal advice, just based on fear from the private action, closing of a woman's center at the local college, and, businesses limiting hours to appointment only, because of not having money to comply. There are legal answers to these questions that were not sought before people acted, unfortunately. cheers.

[E Wachter]

...I think in all fairness that some people have worked hard and sought to advance the civil rights of disabled people for years, and the disabled have been helped, with increased accessibility, more than it would have been without such civil action.

[Rick Frame]

@oh no: you said the ADA is "poorly written"... to which I would ask, have you actually read this law? If you have I would be eager to debate its merits with you in so far as why you think it's poorly written. If you haven't, maybe we could just chat about your political and educational shortcomings.

[Rick Frame]

@E Wachter: you're right there are answers to these questions. Remember the term "financially infeasible"? That term is actually part of the law and it keeps any business from closing because it cannot afford to make the necessary alterations. Of course the courts aren't going to take a business owner's word for it when he or she says they simply can't afford to make the necessary alterations. The court applies a percentage of the businesses annual profit and allows a business to remove architectural barriers gradually over time.

[oh no]

Rick Frame wrote:

@oh no: you said the ADA is "poorly written"... to which I would ask, have you actually read this law? If you have I would be eager to debate its merits with you in so far as why you think it's poorly written. If you haven't, maybe we could just chat about your political and educational shortcomings.

I've read this law but I won't waste my time on a debate with a liberal mouthpiece.

[concern citizen]

Why is that a person who live in MD can make people in Pa change thing around. I do understand she in a wheelcahir but some of the place she want are historical and shouldn't be messed with. But guess that wrong for the people who live in gettysburg.

[Rick Frame]

@oh no: Great, you've read the law and have chosen to chat about your political and educational deficits. So who was the liberal b*#!ard that promoted and signed this liberal crap into law in the first place? That would be George HW Bush... a conservative Republican president. Wow that's got to knock you for a loop, but wait, it gets better! In 2008 some liberal SOB signed legislation to strengthen the ADA... who was president in 2008? That's right, another conservative Republican president. This concludes political enlightenment 101.

[Ed Kemper]

Concerned citizen: Are you suggesting that people in wheelchairs should stay home and not be tourist like everyone else? As for historical buildings? How many of them are unaltered and original? How many of them have had extensive alterations over the years?

oh no: You have no idea what the law says or means. There is nothing in the law that will shut down any properly managed and properly run business. The only businesses that have closed as a result of one of these lawsuits are one's that have been hanging on by their fingertips or who have been spending their significant profits on themselves.

The most entertaining business complainers are those that have richly profited by civil rights laws that protected them yet feel our civil rights protections go to far.

Bigots come in all sizes, shapes and heritage.