MSU administrator on student lawsuits...

MSU administrator on student lawsuits: Bring it on

There are 595 comments on the Charleston Gazette story from Sep 15, 2012, titled MSU administrator on student lawsuits: Bring it on. In it, Charleston Gazette reports that:

Roslyn Artis, executive vice president at Mountain State University, told a group of nursing anesthesia students she isn't afraid of their lawsuits and that they should "bring it." CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- Top Mountain State University officials intimidated and threatened students after learning they were going to sue the university, according to audio ... (more)

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Charleston Gazette.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL L

Beckley, WV

#331 Nov 5, 2012
Maybe there will be justice? Such wonderful leaders teaching in the stellar leadership program. LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LOL

DEL from MSU LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LOLLLLLLLLLLLL LMAO
Ruth and Bill

Charleston, WV

#332 Nov 6, 2012
Garfield wrote:
<quoted text>
This sounds like a plug for University of Phoenix. Explain recruiting within the mentioned program from Bob Jones and the Graduate School USA. Both unaccredited schools. Scam comes to mind. Scam artists come to mind. You desecrate the term scholar with the mentioning of those two "certain" individuals.
Ruth and William are legit yo. Give peace a chance
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL L

Beckley, WV

#333 Nov 7, 2012
Still laughing she thought she would be president.
Ive heard it all

Beckley, WV

#334 Nov 7, 2012
Ruth and Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
Ruth and William are legit yo. Give peace a chance
Yeah they are legit alright. Legit arseholes who took great pleasure in bullying and mistreating the people they worked with. Peace? Really? Do you even understand the meaning of peace? I do wish upon those two miserable old people they find employment at another organization. One that will make their lives a living hell 1000 times over.

All you are doing is using Bill and Ruth as a diversion tactic. Artis was caught red handed trying to intimidate students. There were serious issues in that program and the students had legitimate concerns. The VP of Academics is the overseer of such issues and she walks in the classroom and tells the students in a sarcastic manner to "bring it on". Nasty little emails sure do bring out the worst in those who are in the role of VP of Academics. Good thing the school is shutting down. No student should waste their time and money on a school that cannot maintain accreditation AND put up with aggressive so called VP's of Academics.
Oh Come on

Buffalo, WV

#335 Nov 8, 2012
I agree with the essence of what the Elkview poster is getting at. I am not sure that he/she is trying to divert attention away from other issues as much as recognizing the immensity of good that was produced in the School of Leadership by the architects- Bill White and Ruth Wylie. They really understood their discipline (leadership) as intellectuals. Their mentoring/advising was second to none and their availability to listen to student concerns was without restriction. I commend the earlier poster for wanting peace as these two individuals were clear proponents of quality education without compromise.
Mustudent

Northfork, WV

#336 Nov 8, 2012
I've read this
Its about time

Buffalo, WV

#337 Nov 13, 2012
Yay for the Recognition Luncheon!! These folks have been given such a hard time and it pleases me greatly that they will finally be celebrated by the larger msu community at the upcoming celebration luncheon.
In support of recognition

Charleston, WV

#338 Nov 14, 2012
I am in support of the recognition luncheon for MSU employees- administrators in particular. Many have a thankless job with long hours, extended commutes, and little pay. I applaud the planning committee for carving out a significant portion of the event to pay tribute to key figures such as Ruth Ann Wylie and Bill White. They were beacons of hope to students and to staff during tough times. They were continuously encouraging and fought like hell to do all that they could to save the school.
Karma

Beckley, WV

#339 Nov 14, 2012
You are joking, right?
my oh my

Circle Pines, MN

#340 Nov 14, 2012
In support of recognition wrote:
I am in support of the recognition luncheon for MSU employees- administrators in particular. Many have a thankless job with long hours, extended commutes, and little pay. I applaud the planning committee for carving out a significant portion of the event to pay tribute to key figures such as Ruth Ann Wylie and Bill White. They were beacons of hope to students and to staff during tough times. They were continuously encouraging and fought like hell to do all that they could to save the school.
Bill and Ruth, you need to stop giving yourselves pats on your backs on Topix. Shameless.
Dont dismiss all

Buffalo, WV

#341 Nov 15, 2012
You guys continue to dismiss all of the good things that were accomplished by the School of Leadership over the years. Hundreds of students experienced positive life changes (promotions, advanced to graduate studies- masters, doctoral, and a greater sense of confidence due to their time spent at MSU. Just because some things occured that were unpleasant and or questionable, does not mean that the good should be overlooked. Shame on all of you who are so negative and accusatory.
my oh my

Circle Pines, MN

#342 Nov 15, 2012
Dont dismiss all wrote:
You guys continue to dismiss all of the good things that were accomplished by the School of Leadership over the years. Hundreds of students experienced positive life changes (promotions, advanced to graduate studies- masters, doctoral, and a greater sense of confidence due to their time spent at MSU. Just because some things occured that were unpleasant and or questionable, does not mean that the good should be overlooked. Shame on all of you who are so negative and accusatory.
Wow. I didn't realize HLC and the dept of education and financial aid sources would shut a university down for unpleasant or questionable activities. Well that's ok then....just a little unpleasantries is all that happened. All those layoffs, students traumatied, etc over a little unpleasantness. What the hell type of drugs are you on? If none, then you need some psychiatric help.
Questions

Pineville, WV

#343 Nov 15, 2012
Dont dismiss all wrote:
You guys continue to dismiss all of the good things that were accomplished by the School of Leadership over the years. Hundreds of students experienced positive life changes (promotions, advanced to graduate studies- masters, doctoral, and a greater sense of confidence due to their time spent at MSU. Just because some things occured that were unpleasant and or questionable, does not mean that the good should be overlooked. Shame on all of you who are so negative and accusatory.
Okay, you seem to be a fan of the Leadership program. I wasn't involved in it, so while I may roll my eyes at the idea of it, I'm not qualified to critique it. So, help me understand a few things about it by answering a few questions about it, if you don't mind.

1. When one finishes a doctoral program they are to master the field and add to the body of knowledge. Have any of the doctoral leadership students done this? Have any published? Have any developed any new ideas of leadership after completing their studies? Have any had to complete a dissertation and defend it?

2. Who exactly oversees this program to determine if there is quality instruction? Is there an outside body that MSU has had to answer too regarding the curriculum development (similar to the HLC or NLN)?

The first questions are the ones that are most important to me. If there isn't any movement in the field from teaching "leaders", what's the purpose of the program?
Hmmm

Beckley, WV

#344 Nov 15, 2012
Questions wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, you seem to be a fan of the Leadership program. I wasn't involved in it, so while I may roll my eyes at the idea of it, I'm not qualified to critique it. So, help me understand a few things about it by answering a few questions about it, if you don't mind.
1. When one finishes a doctoral program they are to master the field and add to the body of knowledge. Have any of the doctoral leadership students done this? Have any published? Have any developed any new ideas of leadership after completing their studies? Have any had to complete a dissertation and defend it?
2. Who exactly oversees this program to determine if there is quality instruction? Is there an outside body that MSU has had to answer too regarding the curriculum development (similar to the HLC or NLN)?
The first questions are the ones that are most important to me. If there isn't any movement in the field from teaching "leaders", what's the purpose of the program?
Can't wait to hear how they intend to answer your questions. This should be good! LMAO
A Compelling Response

Buffalo, WV

#345 Nov 16, 2012
MSUs doctoral program was granted a ten year accredidation designation due to its excellence in creating measurable learning outcomes and recruiting both competent students and well qualified staff. Student persistence in the program was above average for similar programs. You ask for additional data regarding post the doctoral defense and graduation. Simply put, the program is new and very few have finished- which is completely normal as it is a 3-5 year process (at any reputable institution). However, a majority of the students received promotions in their field even before entering into their dissertation writing phase. Thise is a testament to the excellence of the program and its ability to equip students with the skills needed to make a difference in their workplaces even before graduating and receiving their credentials. The program was overseen by Miss Ruth Ann Wylie and the Provost- both of whom ensured that the absolute highest standards for quality were consistently met. So- your "tough" questions were quite easy to answer. The HLC thought the program was superb, the students have been (and will continue to be) successful, and the state of West Virginia lost an extremely innovative and proven post graduate program. Such a shame!
I disagree

Beckley, WV

#346 Nov 16, 2012
The entire school had been granted a 10 year accreditation award. This did not mean much in the end.

The doctoral program body included students from unaccredited schools such as Bob Jones University among others. Students enrolled in the program would not know much better as they had never enrolled in legit doctoral courses and/or completed a dissertation at another school.

Everyone knows virtually anyone breathing could get in the program and even some of the leaders of the program has discussed among various private forums the "quality" issue of the student.

In the end MSU as about the money and the doctoral program was designed around this very issue.

Compelling NOT sorry honey. We are not impressed with our program or certainly not the Apex Thinking stupid teachers and leadership.
A Compelling Response wrote:
MSUs doctoral program was granted a ten year accredidation designation due to its excellence in creating measurable learning outcomes and recruiting both competent students and well qualified staff. Student persistence in the program was above average for similar programs. You ask for additional data regarding post the doctoral defense and graduation. Simply put, the program is new and very few have finished- which is completely normal as it is a 3-5 year process (at any reputable institution). However, a majority of the students received promotions in their field even before entering into their dissertation writing phase. Thise is a testament to the excellence of the program and its ability to equip students with the skills needed to make a difference in their workplaces even before graduating and receiving their credentials. The program was overseen by Miss Ruth Ann Wylie and the Provost- both of whom ensured that the absolute highest standards for quality were consistently met. So- your "tough" questions were quite easy to answer. The HLC thought the program was superb, the students have been (and will continue to be) successful, and the state of West Virginia lost an extremely innovative and proven post graduate program. Such a shame!
Hold your horses honey

Buffalo, WV

#347 Nov 16, 2012
I disagree.

The efforts of Ruth Ann Wylie and Bill White to recruit first tier students were quite successful. Having a degree from an accredited institution was always a priority for those being considered for the program as far as I know. However, honey, I must point out that even Harvard is not accredited. Many national experts agree that the DEL was in many ways superior to degrees offered by various Ivy League institutions. Ruth Ann Wylie and Bill White sweat blood and tears to ensure that the program was unique, accessible, while also adhering to the most rigorous of standards.
Rigorous LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Beckley, WV

#348 Nov 16, 2012
Honey to you back B. Harvard does not need accreditation and it is optional. MSU IS NO HARVARD IF YOU HAVE NOT HHHHHHHHHHEARD! LOL This has been discussed in the literature for years.

However, shaky poorly run schools like MSU that grew out of a low rung typing school needs all the accreditation they can get! LOL

The DEL is the laughing stock of WV higher education and beyond. May find Bill White's service on the board diplorible and are looking into this very very carefully. These are the hard facts. End of discussion honey. Unless you are a minority or working for the government and just need some paper to hand on the wall this program will not be respected anywhere.

To all of you who happily taught out of Apex Thinking authored by Bill White and Charles Polk and did their bidding please hold your head down in disgrace in public. You took the money and said nothing. Many of us look at you and find each of you complete jokes with no integrity. Maybe if Roslyn Aritis can FINALLY land herself a job at some shaky college you can go work for her, Ruth, and Bill.
Hold your horses honey wrote:
I disagree.
The efforts of Ruth Ann Wylie and Bill White to recruit first tier students were quite successful. Having a degree from an accredited institution was always a priority for those being considered for the program as far as I know. However, honey, I must point out that even Harvard is not accredited. Many national experts agree that the DEL was in many ways superior to degrees offered by various Ivy League institutions. Ruth Ann Wylie and Bill White sweat blood and tears to ensure that the program was unique, accessible, while also adhering to the most rigorous of standards.
Questions

Pineville, WV

#349 Nov 16, 2012
A Compelling Response

I'm assuming your post was in response to my original posting. I'm afraid that even after reading your response, I still don't feel satisfied with the answers given.

First, you state that the doctoral program was granted a ten-year accreditation. From whom? I don’t want to sound overtly rude, but is there an outside accrediting agency that reviewed the program and compared it to proven standards? You say that the HLC thought the program was superb, but I question that assertion given the status of the university and the HLC’s decision to pull accreditation.

Next, you state “student persistence in the program was above average for similar programs”. I have two concerns with this. How are you defining “student persistence”, and do you have the numbers to back up the statement? Can you provide data, or a link to data that shows this? A peer-reviewed publication would be the best, but if you only have internal MSU data I would still give it consideration.

I’m afraid I need more information to clarify my understanding the leadership dissertation experience. I do understand that the program is new and that very few cohorts may have completed the program, so I wouldn’t presume to judge the quality of the program based on that alone. You note that many of the students receive promotions before entering the dissertation-writing phase. I don’t think that conclusion you imply is as clear-cut as you make it out to be, and I’m not entirely sure that judging the quality of an educational program based on an outside employment promotion is appropriate. The point is that correlation does not mean causation. Just because someone enrolled in a leadership program and received a promotion at work does not mean that one caused the other. I doesn’t mean they didn’t either—but until we get some authentic testimonials, we can’t be sure. But this is outside of the original request I made regarding scholarship and leadership dissertations. I specifically asked if any graduates had published and added to the knowledge of the field. You did not answer and you seem knowledgeable of the workings of the program, so until shown otherwise I will have to assume none have.

As to program oversight, I see a Ruth G. Wylie who received a Ph.D. from West Virginia University. If this is the same person as the Ruth “Ann” Wylie that you speak of in your post, I will agree she appears to have the background to develop a sturdy program of study. However, you make no note of any outside evaluation—except for the comment regarding the HLC, which I discussed above.

My last comment deals with your last sentences. In one portion of your post, you state that the program is new and very few have finished, while in another you state that it is a proven post-graduate program. How do you reconcile those statements? I agree, it may have been innovative in its delivery and accessible because of its scheduling, but I think it is too soon to call it “proven”, especially for a program with “very few” who have finished.

I don’t think that the questions I originally asked were “tough”(your word), and I’m not surprised that—in my opinion—you “talked around” the issues. Straightforward answers are always better than nice adjectives.
Questions

Pineville, WV

#350 Nov 16, 2012
Hold your horses honey wrote:
I disagree.
The efforts of Ruth Ann Wylie and Bill White to recruit first tier students were quite successful. Having a degree from an accredited institution was always a priority for those being considered for the program as far as I know. However, honey, I must point out that even Harvard is not accredited. Many national experts agree that the DEL was in many ways superior to degrees offered by various Ivy League institutions. Ruth Ann Wylie and Bill White sweat blood and tears to ensure that the program was unique, accessible, while also adhering to the most rigorous of standards.
That Harvard is not accredited is an urban legend. It is accredited by the NEASC.

http://cihe.neasc.org/about_our_institutions/...

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