Local: Son accuses Visalia pastor of sex abuse
A bitter family feud between mega-church pastor Bob Grenier and his estranged sons escalated this month with a son's claim in court papers that his father sexually molested him as a child.Read more
#1 Feb 17, 2013
I hope Paul gets justice, but I wouldn't file in Tulare County and I wouldn't try the case in Tulare County. Thin Blue Line, IMO.
BG is BFF's with the former DA, the former Chief of Police, the current Sheriff etc (they all endorsed his book "A Common Miracle" and they spoke/speak at his church and he campaigned/campaigns for them etc). BG is a police chaplain, started the programs there and considers himself (and I think they do as well) as part of the "police force" has a badge etc.
Read the court docs about the financial issues. There are emails and testimonies from former bookkeepers at CCV, there are sworn testimonies from Glen Cardaronella, 24 year Calvary Chapel Visalia board member, Jim Souza, 20 year Calvary Chapel Visalia pastor, Bryan Prosser, long time member and man who was part of a group in the 90's that investigated financial issues and spiritual abuse issues at CCV and Hank Kampen, former CCV pastor.
Paul's testimony is heartbreaking and many believe him despite the spin and bravado coming from Camp BG. Paul also corroborates the financial allegations of the others as he witnessed a lot of the stuff first hand.
BG has gotten away with a lot and I don't trust BG's friends in local law enforcement to treat him as "anyone else" or whatever that statement was. I received an anonymous letter from someone in the Visalia area recently that claimed to have knowledge of issues there that Mestas was close to BG through a connection with Floyd Westbrook and that they attend or have attended a bible study together, etc.
I hope Paul gest justice, but justice is hard to get sometimes in closely connected small town situations. Lots of people believe Paul inside that department, but they are afraid to speak up as BG seems to have the right connections there.
#2 Feb 17, 2013
"Bob Grenier said he would welcome a police investigation as an opportunity to have his name cleared."
Yes, but not in Visalia or Tulare County. The police report regarding the physical child abuse was watered down and emails were sent in addition to the in-person interviews with Detective Jeff McIntosh (son of close BG friend Judy McIntosh) and Bill Diltz. The emails were sent and receiving them was acknowledged in the official Report, yet the most abusive details in the emails and the most abusive details in the interview were not in the report IMO.
Why would the most abusive things be left out of the report? Why was the reason given that the DA (who endorsed BG's book) didn't pursue the case due to "statute of limitations' and now the newspaper article seems to say "because too much time had passed"
THAT's a big inconsistency. Was it "Statute of Limitations"? or not?
#3 Feb 17, 2013
Injustice and cover ups happen. Look at the Chris Dorner situation.
I am a big fan of the Po-lice. I think most are honorable people who do their job the best they can and it's tough because they deal with the worst in our society on a daily basis. Most of the time they are underfunded, outgunned and outmanned, etc.
However, there is no denying the Thin Blue Line dynamic and there is no denying that they protect their own. It's part of the deal. It's sometimes necessary for survival down range, but sometimes it is a problem with dealing with injustices by a particular representative.
Dorner wasn't mentally tough enough to handle his beef with a situation that was probably an injustice with his firing. I don't know for sure, but it seems like he may have had a legitimate beef or two.
But, that doesn't excuse going postal. You've got to be mentally tough and do what you can through the system.
First Amendment and speaking out is one of the legally accepted and healthy outlets to combat what appears to be police protection of an injustice.
BG has gotten away with a lot of stuff and he seems to have some strong back up from his department and friends there. That's fine. It's not uncommon.
We'll keep speaking out and petitioning the church and the government to do something.
We're all filled up with mental toughness over here and undeterred and in it for the long haul. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
We look forward to Judge Vortmann's ruling and hope that justice will prevail in BG's attempt to silence free speech. We are prepared to go above the local level to get justice.
#4 Feb 17, 2013
The BG situation is a microcosm of a larger Problem in the church and I'm beginning to think in churches having their pastors as official police chaplains and getting too cozy with the people who are supposed to police them.
Abuse and corruption happen in the church and are covered up and protected by not only the church but seems like it gets help sometimes in the government agencies that are supposed to be the blind arbiters of justice.
It is what it is. We have the right to speak out against it and expose it.
Don't be afraid to speak out about injustices in institutions of trust by positions of trust about issues like child abuse and corruption that shouldn't be found in those positions and institutions.
#5 Feb 17, 2013
This isn't about anybody but Alex and his vendetta against his mom and dad.
#6 Feb 17, 2013
Once again, I'm having a real hard time understanding why this screed is not posted at your hatesite.
Must be because, despite your best salesmanship, topix.com still gives you better media market coverage than your hatesite does.
Also, Idaho doesn't care about your message.
Pretty hard to get around defamation here, don't you think?
I'll point-for-point you when I get back from church.
#7 Feb 17, 2013
topix.com is analogous to an Old World busy street corner.
Alex is analogous to a nutty street preacher yelling his message to any and all passers-by.
Who decided to stand near the same busy street corner and provide an alternative narrative to the one yelled about by Alex, the crazy street preacher.
Alex USED to scream at this busy topix.com street corner every day, several times a day, in a way reminiscent of an inner-city crack ho smoking five dollar rocks.
Since Who arrived at the topix.com street corner, Alex has curtailed his screaming at topix.com considerably.
Alex' hatesite is, in effect, another street corner on the other side of town.
There has been no curtailment of free speech, and there is no intent to curtail free speech.
There has been an effort to get Alex to leave THIS PARTICULAR topix.com street corner, and in this Who has bee effective.
Alex continues to post on topix.com because the media market coverage it affords him is greater than that which his hatesite provides, his salesmanship notwithstanding.
But, he posts/screams here a lot less.
#8 Feb 17, 2013
Dear General Reader,
It is highly unfortunate that Alex has to date not put together a coherent chronology of events leading up to the lawsuit.
Had he, I believe you, General Reader, would come to some different conclusions than the ones Alex is trying to lead you to using his hate campaign.
Fact: Alex has exhibited, with various contributors at michaelnewnham.com , a propensity/proclivity to mischaracterze, misrepresent, misreport and outright lie about private conversations and communications that he has with other people. There is an e-mail and blogging trail to support this fact.
Fact: There is (and has been for some time) a division in the Grenier household.
Fact: Divisions in a household are not illegal, and in fact have sometimes been known to be unavoidable, especially when one party is intransigent....it takes two to tango, and if the partner doesn't want to tango, well there's not much that can be done to remedy the situation.
This is not illegal. And in fact, with all relevant information on the table, such a division in a household can actually be seen to be understandable. Shocking, I know!
Fact: Alex' assertion that the General Reader will have to, and I quote, "wait for the details," shows that Alex has a habit of/proclivity to keep all relevant information away from the general reader in an attempt to carefully manipulate public opinions against his mother and father.
#9 Feb 17, 2013
2004 - Alex has a conversation with Bob.
Alex has written about this, but given his credibility issues (that I've seen exampled with participants at michaelnewnham.com ), Alex' account of this conversation must be met with healthy skepticism until evidence is given to the general reader to support his, Alex' conclusion.
It seems that this is when the breach in the family occurred, and since Alex began professing Christianity in 2009, it is possible that the discussion was religious in nature, and not about falsely alleging abuse.
At any rate, we cannot today know what was the source of Alex' conflict with his father, and we cannot know why the division in the family occurred.
If we were flies on the wall during that conversation, the division in the family might even be (gasp!) understandable.
2004 - Alex continues to hound his father about his concocted and thus false allegations of abuse.
2005- Alex' son is born, division in the family continues, Alex continues to hound his father and mother after they have made it clear that any and all contact is undesired by them.
This is not illegal, and may in fact be quite understandable, especially if Alex is using bullying tactics to goad his parents into further connection.
2006 - Alex continues to attempt to bully his way into communication. He contacts Bob a "few" times and contacts his mother "several" times, and his attempts are rebuffed.
This is not illegal, and might even be understandable. We would have to know ALL of the facts, and these facts are exactly what Alex has refused to provide, for going on a few years now.
2007 - At a funeral--YES, AT A FUNERAL (thus the Westboro Baptist connection), Alex' wife brings her children to CCV and attempts to bully her way into a meeting with Alex' mother. Alex is not present.
KEEP IN MIND, THIS IS AT A FUNERAL.
Amy's attempt is rebuffed by Gail. This is not illegal, and may even be understandable.
2007-2008-2009 - Alex sells his advertising business. Alex moves to Idaho with his wife and children and opens a pawn and gun shop. Alex' wife discovers topix.com . Alex begins a phone call and e-mail campaign to any and every person even tangentially associated with Bob Grenier, wherein Alex makes all sorts of accusations about conduct that he says occurred roughly FIFTEEN YEARS PRIOR.
Alex finds these people cold to his courting.
2010 - Gene Pensero recommends that Alex take his concerns to CCOF. Alex does so. CCOF refuses to, in the absence of evidence, bend their rules to serve Alex' agenda.
This is not illegal, and may even be understandable.
June 2010 - Who begins posting at topix.com .
July/August 2010 - Alex starts his refuse collector of a hatesite whereon he continues making all sorts of non-specific allegations without in any way providing supporting evidence that would allow the disinterested reader to come to his or her own conclusions.
Late 2010/early 2011 - Once again Alex' wife Amy shows up at CCV, unannounced and WITHOUT ALEX, and attempts to bully her way into a meeting with Alex' mother.
Just like three years prior, Alex' mom refuses to be bullied into meeting with someone with whom she may have a good reason for not wanting to meet with.
This is not illegal, and may in fact be understandable.
#10 Feb 17, 2013
From THIS side of the fence, Alex' wife looks more culpable than Alex.
My guess is that Amy hates Gail and Alex is conducting a hate campaign to keep Amy off his ass for procrastinating on washing the dishes.
2011- Paul's accusation surfaces for the first time.
2012 - Alex' allegations grow and grow like Pinnochio's nose to include accusations that seem constructed to give credence to Paul's claims.
Why was a "showering" incident completely unmentioned by Alex until 2012? Could it be that reading about the Sandusky affair gave him ideas? Seems likely to me, more likely in fact than the possibility that the showering incident occurred.
If Alex were a serial killer we would call him a copycat.
It is my hope that this loose chronology (which is the best that I could do given Alex' attempts to muddy the chronological, ideological and factual waters) will help the general reader navigate their way through the enduring saga that is
Alex Grenier's cyberbully hate campaign against the only family that loved him enough to raise him, a hate campaign motivated by Alex' disgust that his father made him shop for clothes at Miller's Outpost in high school in lieu of letting Alex wear Smiths t-shirts like all the other wanna-be pre-emo losers.
#11 Feb 17, 2013
Hey Who, fresh new thread smell.
#12 Feb 17, 2013
Doesn't seem to be the case.
That is the strategy of BG and his M.O. BG is the eternal victim and his victims are the abusers etc.
Looking forward to the results of the lawsuit, if not at the local level, at the Appellate Court level.
Much more is coming. It's a marathon and not a sprint.
#13 Feb 17, 2013
I hope Paul gets justice in these matters.
I feel bad for the real victim in this matter, Paul who was abused.
#14 Feb 17, 2013
Lots of misinformation and spin and lies. Don't trust what Who/Camp BG is saying.
Read the court docs, read the emails from the bookkeepers, read the testimonies from the long time pastors and members, read the testimonies from the sons in the home. Read about BG's own confession to his board.
Don't let Who fool you. The person's name is not Who, it is a canard and the intention is to fool you and to try to muddy the waters and keep the truth from coming out.
#15 Feb 17, 2013
"...Appellate Court level...."
Already planning an appeal! How quaint!
Does your hate campaign know no bounds? Apparently not.
My name is Who.
#16 Feb 17, 2013
And, I'll point-for-point your point-for-point
#17 Feb 17, 2013
you can respond in the box provided by topix below and exercise your right to Free Speech as part of the Bill of Rights in the Constitution of the United States of America.
Speaking out about the truth is not defamation or libel and public figures and public institutions and issues like child abuse and corruption in the church and govt. etc are matters of broad public interest.
#18 Feb 17, 2013
We're in it to win it and you never know what will happen, hope for the best, prepare for the worst as they say. I've heard very good things about the judge in our case and am confident in a just and accurate ruling.
#19 Feb 17, 2013
Sounds like church was pretty quick, or were you lying again? LOL
#20 Feb 17, 2013
Fortunately, there are big players watching all this that aren't in the BG/Visalia bubble.
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