Local: Visalia pastor sues son over '...

Local: Visalia pastor sues son over 'cyberbullying'

There are 1863 comments on the The Fresno Bee story from Oct 18, 2012, titled Local: Visalia pastor sues son over 'cyberbullying'. In it, The Fresno Bee reports that:

Visalia Calvary Church pastor, the Rev. Bob Grenier, and his wife, Gayle, have sued their estranged son, Alex Grenier, accusing him of defamation and cyberbullying.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Fresno Bee.

Who

Caldwell, ID

#1581 Feb 6, 2013
Who wrote:
Who is a semi-experienced Luddidiot that has originated and is actively engaged in a cyber bully hate campaign againsdt Alex because he misses the public opinion game (it makes one feel so important!)and because he hates that Alex makes him look stupid and that people laugh at who all the time when they read here and give who zero credibility.
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Who, do you agree or disagree?
Please provide your answer AND THE REASONS FOR YOUR ANSWER in the empty box that topix.com has provided for you below.
Thank you in advance.
Cordially,
Who.
My name is Who.
Who

Modesto, CA

#1582 Feb 6, 2013
Alex Grenier is a semi-experienced media professional that has originated and is actively engaged in a cyber bully hate campaign against his family because he misses the public opinion game (it makes one feel so important!) and because he is an internet stalker, trolling the internet; he probably has an RSS feed for his name.
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Nampa, ID, do you agree or disagree?
Please provide your answer AND THE REASONS FOR YOUR ANSWER in the empty box that topix.com has provided for you below.
Thank you in advance.
Cordially,
Who.
Who

Caldwell, ID

#1583 Feb 6, 2013
The accusations kept getting tawdrier, but, still, Calvary has seemed willing to stand behind its men. In 2010 Alex and Paul Grenier, two sons of a Calvary pastor in Visalia, Calif., alleged that their stepfather, Bob Grenier, had horrifically beaten and abused them as children. They claimed they were not allowed to see the police report they filed because their father, who works as a police chaplain, had clout with local law enforcement. When the report was finally disclosed by court order, Alex and Paul told the Fresno Bee that their accounts of the abuse to police had been “watered down” to make them appear less incriminating. Bob Grenier sued Alex in 2012, accusing him of mounting “cyber-bully hate campaign” and libeling him on the Internet. In the filing, Grenier denies allegations that he sexually molested Paul and that he stole money from his church. According to Smith, he has also denied physically abusing his stepsons.

Alex Grenier has published an account of a meeting with Smith and a Calvary lawyer, in which Smith and other Calvary officials denied any affiliation with or responsibility for Bob Grenier’s behavior. In the blog post, Alex wrote that despite their supposed “independence,” other Calvary pastors have had their official affiliation with Calvary revoked over theological differences. Responding to a suit against several local churches in Arizona, Calvary lawyers argued (PDF) that the Arizona court lacked jurisdiction in the case because of Calvary’s “ecclesiastical structure”—namely, that Calvary churches were accountable to the central organization and that the ones accused in the suit were already involved in a “disciplinary process” within the Calvary structure.

In July 2012 Smith dissolved Calvary’s central organization and divided up Calvary’s churches under regional leadership (though Calvary retains a central “leadership council”). Smith commented publicly on the Grenier case in a radio confrontation in which he accused Alex of “doing his best to bring down the work of God through the Calvary chapels because he’s got a bee in his bonnet.” Smith said that he had examined the materials Alex provided but could not find proof of his stepfather’s abuse. On the same program, Smith said,“I don’t have any authority over [Bob Grenier] anyhow.”

Meanwhile, Smith’s Calvary Chapel Outreach Mission, which at the time acted as the denomination’s central organization, was denying its responsibility in an even more sordid legal battle. In 2011 four young men sued both a Calvary church in Idaho and Smith’s “mothership” in Costa Mesa, Calif., alleging that Calvary leadership had protected a pedophile youth minister who molested them as boys. The suit reportedly claimed that the accused pedophile, Anthony Iglesias, had been previously removed from a Calvary ministry in California and sent home from a Thailand mission trip for sexual misconduct with boys, and that the churches allowed him continued access to children despite knowing his history. One of the accusers alleged that when his parents approached Robert Davis, the senior pastor of the Idaho church, about Iglesias’s inappropriate contact with their son, Davis said,“Yeah, we knew. That’s why we pulled him out of Thailand.”

Newsweek/Daily Beast: See full article here: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01...

Great link Who!

My name is Who.
Who

Caldwell, ID

#1584 Feb 6, 2013
How come a National like Newsweek/Daily Beast sourced Alex's writing and blog? I thought you said he wasn't credible and that no one believes him?

My name is Who.
Who

Caldwell, ID

#1585 Feb 6, 2013
Iglesias was convicted of molesting two of the plaintiffs, but their case against Calvary was dismissed.(The young men's lawyer, Tim Kosnoff, told The Daily Beast that he would never take a sex-abuse case in Idaho again because the state’s court system is “very hostile to sexual-abuse victims and very friendly to perpetrators and institutions that enable them.”) Other Calvary pastors have been removed when they were convicted of similar crimes. In 2011 Dino Cardelli, senior pastor of Calvary Chapel Arcata, Calif., was convicted of sexually abusing his two stepdaughters; later in the year, after pastor Christopher Raymond Olage was arrested for allegedly molesting an 8-year-old girl and keeping child pornography on his computer, the Calvary name was dropped from the website of his church in Buena Park, Calif. Olage pleaded not guilty, and the case is currently pending.

In the Iglesias case, the central Calvary organization again reportedly played the “no authority” card, arguing that there was no connection between Calvary Chapel Outreach Fellowship, the central organization, and the Idaho affiliate. Alex Grenier and other church critics have argued that this fits a pattern: Calvary leaders intervene in disputes, especially involving its financial assets, and then claim no affiliation when their underlings are accused of covering up misdeeds.

Newsweek/Daily Beast National news article sourcing Alex and CalvaryChapelAbusedotcom

Link to full article here: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01...
Who

Caldwell, ID

#1586 Feb 6, 2013
Who wrote:
Nampa, ID, do you agree or disagree?.
My name is Who.
Who

Caldwell, ID

#1587 Feb 6, 2013
Who wrote:
No one believes you Alex! I know your story has been covered by credible regional and local news organizations and blogs and now nationally by Newsweek/Daily Beast, but you have no credibility!
Who has no credibility? Who that's Who!

My name is Who.
Who

Caldwell, ID

#1588 Feb 6, 2013
Who wrote:
<quoted text>
Who has no credibility? Who that's Who!
My name is Who.
Excellent point Who!
Who

Caldwell, ID

#1589 Feb 6, 2013
Who wrote:
Please respond to the following:
My name is Who.
Who

Modesto, CA

#1590 Feb 6, 2013
My intention is to get you to explain yourself.
Alex says
"...You'll have to wait for those details. You assume much and assume wrongly, but I believe that is intentional..."
Who says
Big red flag here. If your motives were what you continually say they are, there would be no need to make people "wait for details."
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Seems that you are , ONCE AGAIN, withholding relevant details from the reading public in an attempt to gather a head of steam for your hate campaign---if you were telling the truth, there'd be no need to gather a head of steam.
You are confirming my suspicions about your motives here.
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All I do is ask straightforward and simple questions that are relevant to providing the reading public with the information necessary to come to their own conclusions, and you repeatedly fail to provide the answers. Why is that?
Could it be that you do not want the reading public to make up their own minds? Could it be that you withhold information from the reading public for the purpose of controlling and manipulating public opinion, trying to move it in the direction you'd like to move it?
That's manipulation via media. Which is what I've accused you of for awhile now.
It's nice to see you giving me and the reader yet more evidence that your concern is not over truth. Nice to see you show me and the reader that your concern is not over victims of abuse.
It is about you regularly withholding information from the public with the hope that the public will have a diminished view of your father as a result.
Alex says
"...You'll have to wait for those details...."
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I believe it is wrong for Alex to levy accusations in public, and then when asked, he says
"you have to wait for those details."
The whole point of public discourse is to disclose all relevant information and let the reading public judge for themselves what the evidence leads them to believe.
You know? That thing that journalists do?!
Instead, you stack the deck, and my suspicion is that you stack the deck because you know, deep down, that if the general reader had all of the relevant information, they would ultimately disagree with you.
It's sad to see how oafish and manipulative and opaque you are.
My name is Who.
Who in Stockton, Who in Austin, Who in Armona.
Who to Bob, Who to Alex, and Who to you, too! WooWho!
Who

Caldwell, ID

#1591 Feb 6, 2013
Who wrote:
My intention is to get you to buy amway
My name is Who to who, who, who, who and who.
Who

Caldwell, ID

#1592 Feb 6, 2013
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Who

Caldwell, ID

#1593 Feb 6, 2013
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Who

Caldwell, ID

#1594 Feb 6, 2013
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Who

Caldwell, ID

#1595 Feb 6, 2013
LOL, this is fun.
Who

Caldwell, ID

#1596 Feb 6, 2013
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01...

Good article Who!

Especially this part:

The accusations kept getting tawdrier, but, still, Calvary has seemed willing to stand behind its men. In 2010 Alex and Paul Grenier, two sons of a Calvary pastor in Visalia, Calif., alleged that their stepfather, Bob Grenier, had horrifically beaten and abused them as children. They claimed they were not allowed to see the police report they filed because their father, who works as a police chaplain, had clout with local law enforcement. When the report was finally disclosed by court order, Alex and Paul told the Fresno Bee that their accounts of the abuse to police had been “watered down” to make them appear less incriminating. Bob Grenier sued Alex in 2012, accusing him of mounting “cyber-bully hate campaign” and libeling him on the Internet. In the filing, Grenier denies allegations that he sexually molested Paul and that he stole money from his church. According to Smith, he has also denied physically abusing his stepsons.

Alex Grenier has published an account of a meeting with Smith and a Calvary lawyer, in which Smith and other Calvary officials denied any affiliation with or responsibility for Bob Grenier’s behavior. In the blog post, Alex wrote that despite their supposed “independence,” other Calvary pastors have had their official affiliation with Calvary revoked over theological differences. Responding to a suit against several local churches in Arizona, Calvary lawyers argued (PDF) that the Arizona court lacked jurisdiction in the case because of Calvary’s “ecclesiastical structure”—namely, that Calvary churches were accountable to the central organization and that the ones accused in the suit were already involved in a “disciplinary process” within the Calvary structure.

In July 2012 Smith dissolved Calvary’s central organization and divided up Calvary’s churches under regional leadership (though Calvary retains a central “leadership council”). Smith commented publicly on the Grenier case in a radio confrontation in which he accused Alex of “doing his best to bring down the work of God through the Calvary chapels because he’s got a bee in his bonnet.” Smith said that he had examined the materials Alex provided but could not find proof of his stepfather’s abuse. On the same program, Smith said,“I don’t have any authority over [Bob Grenier] anyhow.”
Who

Caldwell, ID

#1597 Feb 6, 2013
And this part Who:

Meanwhile, Smith’s Calvary Chapel Outreach Mission, which at the time acted as the denomination’s central organization, was denying its responsibility in an even more sordid legal battle. In 2011 four young men sued both a Calvary church in Idaho and Smith’s “mothership” in Costa Mesa, Calif., alleging that Calvary leadership had protected a pedophile youth minister who molested them as boys. The suit reportedly claimed that the accused pedophile, Anthony Iglesias, had been previously removed from a Calvary ministry in California and sent home from a Thailand mission trip for sexual misconduct with boys, and that the churches allowed him continued access to children despite knowing his history. One of the accusers alleged that when his parents approached Robert Davis, the senior pastor of the Idaho church, about Iglesias’s inappropriate contact with their son, Davis said,“Yeah, we knew. That’s why we pulled him out of Thailand.”

Iglesias was convicted of molesting two of the plaintiffs, but their case against Calvary was dismissed.(The young men's lawyer, Tim Kosnoff, told The Daily Beast that he would never take a sex-abuse case in Idaho again because the state’s court system is “very hostile to sexual-abuse victims and very friendly to perpetrators and institutions that enable them.”) Other Calvary pastors have been removed when they were convicted of similar crimes. In 2011 Dino Cardelli, senior pastor of Calvary Chapel Arcata, Calif., was convicted of sexually abusing his two stepdaughters; later in the year, after pastor Christopher Raymond Olage was arrested for allegedly molesting an 8-year-old girl and keeping child pornography on his computer, the Calvary name was dropped from the website of his church in Buena Park, Calif. Olage pleaded not guilty, and the case is currently pending.

In the Iglesias case, the central Calvary organization again reportedly played the “no authority” card, arguing that there was no connection between Calvary Chapel Outreach Fellowship, the central organization, and the Idaho affiliate. Alex Grenier and other church critics have argued that this fits a pattern: Calvary leaders intervene in disputes, especially involving its financial assets, and then claim no affiliation when their underlings are accused of covering up misdeeds.
Who

Modesto, CA

#1598 Feb 7, 2013
You could keep playing computer sandbox typing games, or you could answer my substantive criticisms of your position.
Why do you always CHOOSE to act like a child, Alex?
Who

Caldwell, ID

#1599 Feb 7, 2013
Who wrote:
You could keep playing computer sandbox typing games, or you could answer my substantive criticisms of your position.
Why do you always CHOOSE to act like a child, Who?
My name is Who.
Who

Caldwell, ID

#1600 Feb 7, 2013
Who wrote:
You could keep playing computer sandbox typing games, or you could answer my substantive criticisms of your position.
Why do you always CHOOSE to act like a child, Who?
Excellent point Who! Who plays computer sandbox typing game and doesn't answer substantive criticisms of who's / camp bob's positions! Why does who CHOOSE to act like a child, Who? Who that's who.

My name is STILL Who. Who to who, who to who, who to who who who.

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