Local: Visalia pastor sues son over 'cyberbullying'

Oct 18, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Fresno Bee

Visalia Calvary Church pastor, the Rev. Bob Grenier, and his wife, Gayle, have sued their estranged son, Alex Grenier, accusing him of defamation and cyberbullying.

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CalvaryChapelAbu sedotcom

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#21
Oct 21, 2012
 
Whatever

Heard back from Kelly Clark today, he said he's very much in my corner and is going to try and help me put together a legal team to tackle this situation. Very encouraging.
The lawsuit is a joke. It's not going to be successful in silencing me or others even though that is clearly the intent to stop free speech and put a chilling effect on those exposing things that are in the public interest

Why doesn't Bob sue Paul Grenier who made a public statement about Bob molesting him? Why is he suing a person who believes Paul rather than suing the person who made the accusation?5424
Who

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#22
Oct 22, 2012
 

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Who wrote:
Ohh I am Alex why is everybody always picking on me? why is my mom on offense? Why has Bob never tried to resolve this privately?
Fact: You, Alex, HAVE had private conversations with Bob. Ergo Bob has met Matt 18. Also, since I seriously doubt your Christian professions (blame it on all the unspiritual bad fruit I see falling from your tree) that you've had since only 2009, Bob is cleared on 1 Corinthian grounds.
Fact: Your mother has not been slandering you over the internet for the last three years, therefore saying SHE is on offense is disingenuous at best, lying at worst, and hate campaign character assassination manipulation on whatever end of the spectrum the general reader places you, guided by their personal proclivities of course. It is YOU, Alex, that has been on offense. Your family is simply defending themselves against a rabid bulldog with hate and slobber dripping from his doggie lips.
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And this whole "I'll set up a paypal account so you can help with my legal defense" is more posturing and manipulation from you, and frankly it makes me sick to see. You are such a fucking drama queen. Get over yourself.
My name is still Who.
Excellent points, Who!
Who

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#23
Oct 22, 2012
 

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Who wrote:
Dear general reader.
It is not my intention to cuss so much, it's just that I've been trying to show Alex the error of his ways for a couple of years now, and he just sticks his fingers in his ears and shouts
"I can't hear you! I can't hear you!"
like a little child, and he's forty.
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I never assumed that Alex was lying; that conclusion I reached later. I believe that internet bullying is wrong, and I have consistently stated such.
Alex didn't stop posting at topix.com , so I continued to read, of course. Once I determined that he would not stop bullying his family, I figured that that part of my argument was done; he and I would never see eye to eye on his unBiblical use of the internet.
So, I started paying more attention to his narrative. I noticed various inconsistencies in his recounting of the facts as he says they occurred. I also noticed how he changed and embellished his narrative to suit whatever rhetorical situation/difficulty he was facing at any given moment.
I thought to myself, if his recounting of things changes and gets embellished or disembellished depending on the day, well then maybe he thinks that truth is something that changes.
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I have consistently challenged him to answer very basic questions about his accounts and I have drawn his attention to what I have seen as inconsistencies and moving goalposts.
To which Alex has consistently responded
"I can't hear Who! I can't hear Who! Who is Who? Who works for my dad! Who is an abuser! Who is who I wish I could be!"
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I have never sought to quell free speech. The beauty of free speech is that alternative narratives are in principle always allowed-that's the very essence of free speech.
All I have done is provide a narrative to the reading public that is quite different than what Alex would like the reading public to believe.
In fact, it is precisely Alex' willingness to change his presentation of facts to fit the media vehicle that caused me to doubt the truth of his various claims.
Also, Alex has shown himself to have various conspiracy theory leanings, but then he owns a gun shop and lives in white as snow Idaho, so I guess my fellow Americans should expect such behaviour.
My name is Who.
More excellent points, Who! You homerun hitter, you!
Who

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#24
Oct 22, 2012
 

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you says
"...It's not going to be successful in silencing me or others..."
Who says
Well, if the judge orders you to cease, I'm assuming it will be successful. You don't type in jail cells serving time for contempt, do you? I think that would silence you, contrary to your assertions to the contrary.
you says
"...even though that is clearly the intent to stop free speech..."
Who says
The suit as written is very clear--they aren't trying to stop your speech, they are trying to stop your character assassination hate campaigning. Character assassination is not protected speech, unless you are targeting the President, of course.
you says
"...and put a chilling effect on those exposing things that are in the public interest..."
Who says
I laugh every time I see you type 'chilling effect.' It makes you feel important right? Like a real official legal scholar. "Chilling effect"!
Try this one on for size---"penumbra" used such as Alex' behavior does not fall within the penumbra of Constitutionally protected speech.
My name is Who.
NIGEL TABB EXETER NEWHAMP

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#25
Oct 22, 2012
 

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This guy should be thrown in jail
CalvaryChapelAbu sedotcom

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#27
Oct 22, 2012
 

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"Who" said, "The suit as written is very clear--they aren't trying to stop your speech, they are trying to stop your character assassination hate campaigning."

Others very much disagree. The suit is not written very clearly, is poorly written and the claims are false.
Pain Releif

Visalia, CA

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#28
Oct 22, 2012
 
All of Alex's behavior, no matter how much you don't like it, falls under free speech. No matter how much you would like it to be different, the words "hate campaign" are not legal terms and there is no law prohibiting a campaign such as that. Which is beside the point that this is not a hate campaign but a ligament righteous cause.

Standing up for your brothers and the many others who have been harmed by your step father is a noble act indeed.

Someone like Who could not understand what you are doing for so many others, Alex. Who has a horse in this race and can deny all he wants. If he doesn't then his idol hands have been used well by the master both he and Bob serve.
CalvaryChapelAbu sedotcom

Nampa, ID

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#29
Oct 22, 2012
 
Pain Releif, thank you. I agree.

I do hate some stuff: child abuse, spiritual abuse, pastoral manipulation, the Church being a sanctuary for a bad guy to hurt people and misuse the Position of Trust etc.

But, as you stated, there's no such thing as a "hate campaign" the way that sloppy lawsuit portrays it. Bob is famous for always being the victim, when it is his own behavior that causes him his problems.
CalvaryChapelAbu sedotcom

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#30
Oct 22, 2012
 
I don't think it's a 'hate campaign' or "cyberbullying" to report things like this:

From 24 year Calvary Chapel Visalia Board Member Glen C.:

"I believe Bob intentionally manipulated the Board on financial matters, such as his salary and overall benefit package, the purchase of a vehicle, by the church, for his exclusive use, the hiring and payment of family members on staff, and other "perks," he enjoyed as Senior Pastor. Although the Board approved all of these matters, it was frequently done via a phone conversation, where we did not really get to discuss the issues, and were often told other Board Members had already approved his request. I can think of several of these issues, but I particularly remember that after he got angry with me for questioning the purchase of a vehicle, for his exclusive use, by the church, he angrily indicated that he had already made the deal, before getting Board approval. Although, again, I, and I believe most other Board Members, were manipulated in making and approving decisions regarding CCV, it is clear to me, that Bob and our church administrator, Greg Dowds, made many of the decisions, without the benefit of the multitude of counsel, and have led to the tragic tale of CCV. "
CalvaryChapelAbu sedotcom

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#31
Oct 22, 2012
 
I think it is perfectly legitimate Free Speech to read a testimony like Glen C's and go, "Gee, that's wrong" and hold a belief and opinion that it is corrupt.

Many, many more examples, etc
CalvaryChapelAbu sedotcom

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#33
Oct 22, 2012
 
The one legit concern I personally saw in the suit was a post they referenced by "anon" that seemed like a direct threat to me. I don't know who it is that posted that, but "Who" is the only other person involved in this situation that seems to have made direct physical threats. Maybe it's the same person.2840
CalvaryChapelAbu sedotcom

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#34
Oct 22, 2012
 
I do find that comment by "anon" to be over-the-line and it personally offends me. I don't remember the comment, but I don't want any harm to come to my Mom or to Bob, I just want the issues dealt with and I want Bob to come clean and cop to his bad behavior and for him to make an attempt to make things right.

For Bob, in his lawsuit, to describe his actions and apology as "perceived poor parenting" is akin to a rapist apologizing for being a bad date.

For healing for a victim of abuse, it starts with the abuser admitting he did wrong.
CalvaryChapelAbu sedotcom

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#35
Oct 22, 2012
 
Bob calling me a liar and crazy and a bully and operating a 'hate campaign' etc just makes things worse.

He should admit to the things he's done wrong and come clean without dragging our family and the church family through this lawsuit process.
CalvaryChapelAbu sedotcom

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#36
Oct 22, 2012
 
But, from what I know of Bob, he'll continue to harden and dig in, and we'll go through the process and the many testimonies against him will enter the public record or the case will simply get dismissed or will get anti-SLAPP'd etc
CalvaryChapelAbu sedotcom

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#37
Oct 22, 2012
 
As far as a "chilling effect" goes, I am already hearing from activist bloggers that deal in Church Abuse etc that the result of this case will affect them and their ability to speak out.

If I lose, it will have a chilling effect on free speech in the blogging community
Who

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#38
Oct 22, 2012
 

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you says
"...No matter how much you would like it to be different, the words "hate campaign" are not legal terms and there is no law prohibiting a campaign such as that..."
Who says
The Supreme Court ruled in the early 1990s that hate crime laws are constitutional. Hate crime/hate campaign are recognized in criminal/civil suits every day of the week. And you can thank CA for that! Problem I see is that if Bob were a practicing homo and Alex were attacking him for THAT, then Alex would have lost long ago, so liberal-leaning have our courts become.
Tomayto Tomahto, the courts will decide if Alex is a semi-experienced media professional that is currently engaged in a multi-tiered, internet-driven hate campaign.
you says
"...Standing up for your brothers and the many others who have been harmed by your step father is a noble act indeed...."
Who says
Alex has in no way shown that he is standing up for anyone. He's yapping like a little doggie because he misses the media game he was once a part of---now he owns a gun shop and is professionally frustrated. He sends his women to interrupt Christians on Sunday.
you says
"...Who has a horse in this race and can deny all he wants..."
Who says
Sure do...it's called speaking the truth in love, and I think alex is very far from telling the truth in love. He's a drama queen that likes seeing his name in print. In the 80's they used to call that 'media-whoring.'
Who

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#39
Oct 22, 2012
 

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CalvaryChapelAbusedotcom wrote:
I don't think it's a 'hate campaign' or "cyberbullying" to report things like this:
From 24 year Calvary Chapel Visalia Board Member Glen C.:
"I believe Bob intentionally manipulated the Board...
Your use of Glen C is particulary emblematic of a hate campaign, insinuating things that are not true in an effort to smear the good name and reputation of a man (your father) that happens to have a fine standing in several communities. I already point-for-pointed Glen C's bullshit awhile ago, and you, Alex, ignored it as usual, because enlightening the general reader about how Glen C is full of shit doesn't help your hate campaign much. Also, if I'm not mistaken you published Glen C's writing even though he specifically reques5ted that it only go to Chuck S. Typical self-serving behavior from you.
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So, let's see. Glen C believes that the Board was manipulated, even though that fucking dumbass was on the board and was a part of necessary board approval? What kind of fucking sense does that make? None.
It's kind of like you, Alex, knowing that Bob is abusive, and not reporting it, EVEN THOUGH YOU KNEW THAT NON-REPORTING WOULD LEAVE YOUR BROTHER IN DANGER.
Does that make any sense? Of course it doesn't. If you believed Bob was abusive, you would have taken any step necessary to ensure the safety of your youngest brothers that were still in the home. AND YET YOU DIDN'T. You can come up with any penny-ante explanation you like, but I am free to (and more justified in, I may add) infer that Bob was not abusive, and that Bob being in the home and raising Paul and Robert in the same fashion as he raised you and Jeff did not cause you to take any effort to protect your brothers.
You knew such protection as reporting an abuser was not necessary because you knew it was not abuse.
Who

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#40
Oct 22, 2012
 

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you says
"...I think it is perfectly legitimate Free Speech to read a testimony like Glen C's and go, "Gee, that's wrong" and hold a belief and opinion that it is corrupt...."
Who says
if your intention in typing is to adversely affect a target, that's not protected speech.
Providing Glen C's writing and glossing over obvious discrepancies when such discrepancies will negatively affect your ability to adversely affect your target is an example of innuendo---you know, saying something without actually coming out and saying it? Courts recognize that use of speech, you dmbfck.
so, Glen C believes that board was manipulated, though he was on the board and did the voting? Makes no sense.
Who says
Even though I freely went to the ballot box and freely voted for Clinton over Bush, I believe that by making a few phone calls Clinton actually manipulated me into voting for him.
Who says
Does that make sense? Hell no, therefore reductio ad absurdum Glen C's trash don't make sense either.
And you using Glen C's words in your own fashion (beyond the intention of the writer Glen C, I might add) to cause other people to believe negative impressions you make about Bob does in fact constitute libel/slander. Doing so hour-by-hour and day-by-day constitutes a campaign, and being motivated by hate makes it a hate campaign. These are distinctions any first-year law student will recognize as recognized by law.
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You can stick your fingers in your ears and say "I am NOT motivated by hate! I am NOT motivated by hate!" all you want, but what other conclusion can a disinterested party like a judge or myself reach? If you believed Bob was abusive, why would you remain quiet and expose your youngest brothers to the abuse you suffered? To believe your CURRENT CLAIMS REGARDING YOUR MOTIVATIONS, YOU WOULDN'T! You would have done whatever you could to get your youngest brothers out of there.....BUT YOU DIDN'T.
either because you were afraid of Bob, you were milking him for money OR
(and this is the conclusion a disinterested observer such as myself has reached)
You didn't believe at the time that Bob was abusive.
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All this "Bob is an abuser" stuff came waaay later in the game to be readily believable. Unless of course you are a member of the generally intellectually inferior reading public, which is of course exactly the part of the reading public you are seeking to influence.
DEFAMATION. LIBEL. SLANDER. HATE CAMPAIGN. CHARACTER ASSASSINATION.
All are legally accepted terms. All are actionable. Which is why I think you are getting sued.
My name is Who.
Your move.
CalvaryChapelAbu sedotcom

Boise, ID

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#41
Oct 22, 2012
 

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"Who" that's the biggest pile of b.s you've spouted yet, but you have the right to spout it :-)
CalvaryChapelAbu sedotcom

Boise, ID

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#42
Oct 22, 2012
 
"Who" if Bob wasn't abusive then why does my Aunt say she saw Bob striking my brother in the face/head region in a rage?

Why did Bob cop to punching my underage brother to the CCV Board?

Why does a neighbor say she heard screams from the home and recollections of the situation that in hindsight look like there was abuse?

Why testimony of three brothers and even testimony that Bobby Jr. bragged to a Visalian Shaun B. that Bob was tough and beat us.

Why didn't Bob challenge the physical child abuse in the lawsuit?

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