Shroud of Turin a Fake, Italian Scientist Claims

In this Aug. 12, 2000 file photo, The Holy Shroud, a 14 foot-long linen revered by some as the... In this Aug.

[TASKMASTER]

Some Where in this I see Leonardo's hand...Not the first time Italian artists ,and craftsman have perpetuated some kind of hoaxs.For Fun and Profit!!...But the shroud is differant....Photography is involved with this...the negative impression...only seen when photography was introduced....many feel he knew of a method,some kind of camera!!...Da Vinci was to much!

If you believe the world was created in 7 days,or J.C. got beamed aboard some heavenly cloud,or a UFO,picked J.C. up,or in the Tooth Fairy???? its OK..most do...but somewhere ..Leonardo must be smiling!!

"WHAT FOOLS WE MORTALS BE"

[Danniboy]

Old news. No one ever saw a face in this piece of cloth prior to 1898. I'm just saying that if no one in the far more credulous and religious preceding 18 centuries ever claimed this cloth had Jesus’ face imprinted in it, then it really doesn’t have Jesus face imprinted on it. That’s the argument from logic and human nature at least, if we actually deign to look at things like radio dating then it’s a clear production of the High Middle Ages.

[Raymond]

Plain common sense is enough, we don't need a sceintist to prove it's a fake. Just like religion itself is a fake.

Its a symbol. I leave symbols to the simple minded.

[Pittsburgh Steve]

But it is good for tourism....

[Kahoki]

Of course it is a fake, just like religion itself. It is based on stories and based on nothing. Religion uses fear for the manipulation of the people to follow blindly their believes for power, control, and profit.

Thomas Paine (one of the, if the most greatest American mind) once said, "All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

[Raymond]

Pittsburgh Steve wrote:

But it is good for tourism....

Could be just that. There are no better spenders than the meek. LOL

[TASKMASTER]

Its Ironic to hear the bashers of Religion here!..All the greatest artists of all time were in the employ of the church!Art,Music! were cultivated by the great Church's of the world!....It was the church who were the patrons of all these great men....In any event there are more believers in this world than none believers...You believe? OK,You do not ,thats Ok too...but to ridicule the religious views on others,or to belittle others is just plain dumb!..Its indicative of the "LOONY HALF BRAIN"

liberal Loons are like that...the Older they get,the more conservative they become...and as that last day is apparent to all,the more they believe ...Hey, why take a chance???..Most Bashers are wrong about every thing any way!

When your time comes,and I have heard many..its usually a plea to ones "MAA!" or a "GOD HELP ME"..Your mom can not help you no more,but God?? Hey thats his job!...So I would be anxious to hear your last wheezy finial words!....God Help You!!

"LORD! PROTECT US FROM THE IGNORANCE FROM THE NATTERING NABOBS OF ALL RELIGIOUS BASHING"

[Raymond]

TASKMASTER wrote:

Its Ironic to hear the bashers of Religion here!..All the greatest artists of all time were in the employ of the church!Art,Music! were cultivated by the great Church's of the world!....It was the church who were the patrons of all these great men....In any event there are more believers in this world than none believers...You believe? OK,You do not ,thats Ok too...but to ridicule the religious views on others,or to belittle others is just plain dumb!..Its indicative of the "LOONY HALF BRAIN"
liberal Loons are like that...the Older they get,the more conservative they become...and as that last day is apparent to all,the more they believe ...Hey, why take a chance???..Most Bashers are wrong about every thing any way!
When your time comes,and I have heard many..its usually a plea to ones "MAA!" or a "GOD HELP ME"..Your mom can not help you no more,but God?? Hey thats his job!...So I would be anxious to hear your last wheezy finial words!....God Help You!!
"LORD! PROTECT US FROM THE IGNORANCE FROM THE NATTERING NABOBS OF ALL RELIGIOUS BASHING"

Not really, just being realistic. You really must try being logical. Religion has slowly been put into the trashcan of history for centuries. Try catching up.

[TASKMASTER]

Raymond wrote:

<quoted text>
Not really, just being realistic. You really must try being logical. Religion has slowly been put into the trashcan of history for centuries. Try catching up.

I have to agree some what....In France,and other Strong religious countries in Europe...the Once Citadel of Christany!..Procters of the Faith,Champions of things that are good,are now being supplemented by the Flame of Islam...So clear that trend in France!..It seems most are willing to abandon their faith ,tradition,identify.so easily,while the Muslims are prepared to die for theirs!

This from the land of the Crusaders!.....Shame!!..for the Followers of Islam will surly make you and other European countries their subjects...Its only time,Years? Century's,? No Matter...They will have Mosques in Paris!....So Much For Notre Dame,or the Cathedral of Chartres.!

If you doubt the Muslim growing diamension..look back a bit...Constaninople...The Magnificent Hagia Sophia...now in Istanbul,a Muslim mosque....matter of time...the Flame and Sword of Islam is always growing Westward!

Our complacency,lack of traditions,lose of who we are are all that is needed by Muslims......I look for our Towers in NYC..and in the ruble see the Future...Viva La france???....I do not think so!!

"DEUS VULT" Not our God thats for sure!

CIAO Raymond!

[Raymond]

TASKMASTER wrote:

<quoted text>
I have to agree some what....In France,and other Strong religious countries in Europe...the Once Citadel of Christany!..Procters of the Faith,Champions of things that are good,are now being supplemented by the Flame of Islam...So clear that trend in France!..It seems most are willing to abandon their faith ,tradition,identify.so easily,while the Muslims are prepared to die for theirs!
This from the land of the Crusaders!.....Shame!!..for the Followers of Islam will surly make you and other European countries their subjects...Its only time,Years? Century's,? No Matter...They will have Mosques in Paris!....So Much For Notre Dame,or the Cathedral of Chartres.!
If you doubt the Muslim growing diamension..look back a bit...Constaninople...The Magnificent Hagia Sophia...now in Istanbul,a Muslim mosque....matter of time...the Flame and Sword of Islam is always growing Westward!
Our complacency,lack of traditions,lose of who we are are all that is needed by Muslims......I look for our Towers in NYC..and in the ruble see the Future...Viva La france???....I do not think so!!
"DEUS VULT" Not our God thats for sure!
CIAO Raymond!

Sorry if my next comment is rude!

you sir, are commenting from a position of ignorance. There is NO god, never has been, never will be.(my opinion)

There are many religous types in france. French first, then religion. Thats how it should be and is.

Look at the statistics, if it really matters to you?

There are more muslims in the United States than in the "whole of Europe". We just do not keep going on about it! It does'nt matter! its a private choice.

[TASKMASTER]

Raymond wrote:

<quoted text>
Sorry if my next comment is rude!
you sir, are commenting from a position of ignorance. There is NO god, never has been, never will be.(my opinion)
There are many religious types in France. French first, then religion. Thats how it should be and is.
Look at the statistics, if it really matters to you?
There are more muslims in the United States than in the "whole of Europe". We just do not keep going on about it! It does'nt matter! its a private choice.

Your credentials must be impeccable...a profound statement like that...You must have access to knowledge that only you have access to...you are so convinced in your own conclusions that your limited brain cannot absorb any other except what your stupid mind revels to you...Man your really a ignorant jerk,not for your beliefs or lack off but for your idiot small,insignificant little non descriptive half brain!!!...get a Life..read a book!..instead of contemplating your navel!!!...

[lofa]

I am really and truly sick of those who look for whatever excuse they can to deny the fact that God exists and he is real. This tops the cake with their asinine thinking of how the Shroud of Turin is fake because they were able to make a mockery [replica] of it. I hope that Italian scientist enjoys his 15 minutes of fame and the money he was paid to utter horrible blasphemies. I would not even be a bit surprised if he's one of the scientists involved in making a body/clone for the Antichrist.

I encourage anyone who has ears to hear and eyes to see with to get a copy of the book called Antichrist: The Cloned Image of Jesus Christ by Joye Jeffries Pugh. The book discusses the Shroud of Turin and the coming Cloned Antichrist. The greatest deception that the world has ever seen is coming.

[Fake World]

I was watching the TV News and I saw that a man locked himself on the toilet when he discovered that the breasts of the woman he marry were not real they were fake plstics because she lost both breast to cancer. The man screamed "Holy jumping kangaroo, Your breasts are FAKE. I will not be able to suck a pair of juicy breasts".

[Kahoki]

lofa wrote:

I am really and truly sick of those who look for whatever excuse they can to deny the fact that God exists and he is real. This tops the cake with their asinine thinking of how the Shroud of Turin is fake because they were able to make a mockery [replica] of it. I hope that Italian scientist enjoys his 15 minutes of fame and the money he was paid to utter horrible blasphemies. I would not even be a bit surprised if he's one of the scientists involved in making a body/clone for the Antichrist.
I encourage anyone who has ears to hear and eyes to see with to get a copy of the book called Antichrist: The Cloned Image of Jesus Christ by Joye Jeffries Pugh. The book discusses the Shroud of Turin and the coming Cloned Antichrist. The greatest deception that the world has ever seen is coming.

You have to have some understanding to the way people percieve "god" now. You said "god' exists. Ok, what has "god" done in order to reveal him/herself? Anything? Has "god" dropped down from the heavens and said worship me? I haven't seen it. Now in the bible, "god" reveals himself constantly. So 2000+ years ago is ok, but, there is no need today? Let me ask you this, where was "god" when jews (the chosen people according to the bible) were being slaughtered by Hitler? Where was "god" when planes slammed into buildings causing thousands to die?

This belief that 'god" is something to be worshipped is a form of control by religious leaders. Believe our way of thinking and follow our church and our version of "god" and you will go to heaven, if you do not, then you will burn in hell for eternity. But, "god" loves you. Thomas Paine once said, "Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system." This subserviant belief in "god" causes people not to have the strength to stand for themselves and causes the individual to loose all reason.

[TASKMASTER]

If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under.
Ronald Reagan

[Dan USA]

The greatist strides in world progress were not made by the hand of any religion, but by meticulous observation of agnostics and atheists. And any religion's claim to fame would be in the area of law giving and the brutality of enforcing it. Oh. And yes. The Shroud of Turin is certainly a fake, just as the chips of wood, said to be of the cross.

[CompassionateCon servative]

Dan USA wrote:

The greatist strides in world progress were not made by the hand of any religion, but by meticulous observation of agnostics and atheists.

Atheists like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao Zedong, right?

[thebabbster]

Of course, the news that it's not real won'tr dissuade the "faithful" one bit. In fact, it will have the opposite effect: actually becoming "proof" of it's authenticity. Some would rather believe than think.

[keltec 9mm]

TASKMASTER wrote:

Some Where in this I see Leonardo's hand...Not the first time Italian artists ,and craftsman have perpetuated some kind of hoaxs.For Fun and Profit!!...But the shroud is differant....Photography is involved with this...the negative impression...only seen when photography was introduced....many feel he knew of a method,some kind of camera!!...Da Vinci was to much!
If you believe the world was created in 7 days,or J.C. got beamed aboard some heavenly cloud,or a UFO,picked J.C. up,or in the Tooth Fairy???? its OK..most do...but somewhere ..Leonardo must be smiling!!
"WHAT FOOLS WE MORTALS BE"

If you believe Leonardo da Vinci had a hand in making the shroud that would be a definite miracle.

1353 A.D.- Geoffroy de Charny of the Knights Templar purportedly presented the Shroud to the Dean of the Lirey Abbey.

1355 A.D.- The Charny family resumed charge of the Shroud, where it remained until 1389.

1357 A.D.- Pilgrims made a holy pilgrimage to view the Shroud, which was placed on view by the canons of Lirey.

1389 A.D.- The Shroud was put on public display once again.
Leonardo da Vinci was born in 1452 A.D.,about a century after the first mention of the shroud in Europe.

This is interesting also.

"But among the rest, there was also another of the minsters, which was called the Church of my Lady Saint Mary of Blachernae, within which was the shroud wherein Our Lord was wrapped. And on every Friday that shroud did raise itself upright, so that the form of Our Lord could clearly be seen. And none knows - neither Greek nor Frank - what became of that shroud when the city was taken".

Robert de Clari's account of the Fourth Crusade, Chapter 91 La conquête de Constantinople (1204 AD)

de Clari was a Crusader Knight.

The shroud was probably kept in a box that had a pulley system that raised the cloth up gradually on Fridays as part of the liturgy so all could see.

Genealogical and literary researcher Alexei Lidov found that the Shroud of Turin's former owner, de Charny, was married to a direct descendant of a French crusader who sacked Constantinople.

[keltec 9mm]

Dan USA wrote:

The greatist strides in world progress were not made by the hand of any religion, but by meticulous observation of agnostics and atheists. And any religion's claim to fame would be in the area of law giving and the brutality of enforcing it. Oh. And yes. The Shroud of Turin is certainly a fake, just as the chips of wood, said to be of the cross.

Yawn.....

"To know the mighty works of God, to comprehend His wisdom and majesty and power; to appreciate, in degree, the wonderful workings of His laws, surely all this must be a pleasing and acceptable mode of worship to the Most High, to whom ignorance cannot be more grateful than knowledge."
Nicolaus Copernicus

"He [Copernicus] did not ignore the Bible, but he knew very well that if his doctrine were proved, then it could not contradict the Scripture when they were rightly understood".
Galileo Galilei

"Here we are concerned with the book of nature, so greatly celebrated in sacred writings. It is in this that Paul proposes to the Gentiles that they should contemplate God like the Sun in water or in a mirror. Why then as Christians should we take any less delight in its contemplation, since it is for us with true worship to honor God, to venerate him, to wonder at him? The more rightly we understand the nature and scope of what our God has founded, the more devoted the spirit in which that is done."
Johannes Kepler

"This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent Being. All variety of created objects which represent order and life in the universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, Whom I call the Lord God."
Isaac Newton