This brutality is not Islam

There are 58 comments on the Guardian Unlimited story from Sep 30, 2011, titled This brutality is not Islam . In it, Guardian Unlimited reports that:

The death sentence given to Youcef Nadarkhani in Iran is an affront to universal moral values and a disservice to Muslims ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Guardian Unlimited.

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Paul WV

Elizabeth, NJ

#47 Oct 13, 2011
flowerchild wrote:
Brutality and violence has been a part of human nature since the dawn of humans. Not matter what religion a human belongs to.
<quoted text>
No matter what religion or sport team a human belongs to. Brutality and violence is not limited to religous idenity.
flowerchild

Indianapolis, IN

#48 Oct 13, 2011
I agree--brutality is part of human nature. I used religion because of the Islam topic, but yes, violence is and always will be human nature.
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
No matter what religion or sport team a human belongs to. Brutality and violence is not limited to religous idenity.
flowerchild

Indianapolis, IN

#49 Oct 13, 2011
I should have included the word "part" of human nature. "...yes, violence is and always will be part of human nature." :-)
Alen

Warminster, UK

#50 Oct 13, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
If "This brutality is not Islam," then is Iran not Islamic?
Correct, Iran and rest of the Middle East, is not Islamic, not Quranic.
Same goes for Northern Africa and basically all sunnis and shias. They do not follow Qur'an, like muslim, they follow traditions, that is why they have new titles, e.g. sunni and shia, then sunni split into 4 further "schools of thought", which is NOT from THe Qur'an.

Shia do not follow sunah and hadith, however, they behave and act like pagans:cutting themselves, which is breaking the 4:119 in The Qur'an.
more truth

Tallahassee, FL

#51 Oct 13, 2011
Humanity discarded the grim human and animal sacrifices of old religions and kept all the cheerful things:

Christmas trees, Nowrooz, easter eggs, etc. i would say bullfighting but I guess that is grim.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#52 Oct 13, 2011
flowerchild wrote:
There are hypocrites and radicals in every religion. The Catholic church did the same when they took power...believe or be killed. Pagans began to secretly practice for fear of being killed; many pagans were killed/murdered/put to death. Fear is a way of controlling the people. Christians (and all other religions) do the same thing. Hate breeds hate no matter what religion one belongs to. When one takes on the mindset of a hater; they become no different than the ones they hate.
<quoted text>
Perhaps, but state atheism hated/killed/murdered more efficiently than any religion ever did.

“Concerned in Tennessee”

Since: Dec 07

Knoxville, TN

#53 Oct 13, 2011
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps, but state atheism hated/killed/murdered more efficiently than any religion ever did.
Efficiently maybe... overall numbers, I don't think so.

See the problem is letting any one single religion, or even the declaration of no religion at all, rule a government, instead of letting its best parts "influence" government.

Governments that embrace Christianity, Muslim Faith, atheism, etc. have all done great evil and harm in their name. Religions or lack thereof, aren't bad in and of themselves, they have just been used as tools to justify brutality and control throughout human history. It’s just one more system of control and dominance used by those in power.

We have a different perspective on things in the west due out our much higher standard of living from economics and technology, and our systems of government that are only partially influenced by religion, and more largely governed by declarations of human rights as opposed to slavish adherence to religious codes.

The problem is that the Middle East is about 200-500 years behind the West in social advancement. In time when they catch up in terms of living conditions, economy, and civil rights, they too will most likely settle down. Unfortunately right now, looking at them is like looking at ourselves (ie. the West) during the brutality of the middle ages.
flowerchild

Indianapolis, IN

#54 Oct 13, 2011
What do you mean by "state atheism"?(and I'm not being a smart arse; I really want you to clarify "state atheism" so I can interpret what you wrote in more detail. thanks :-))
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps, but state atheism hated/killed/murdered more efficiently than any religion ever did.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#55 Oct 13, 2011
flowerchild wrote:
What do you mean by "state atheism"?(and I'm not being a smart arse; I really want you to clarify "state atheism" so I can interpret what you wrote in more detail. thanks :-))
<quoted text>
State atheism has been defined by David Kowalewski as the official "promotion of atheism" by a government, typically by active suppression of religious freedom and practice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

"The centralized atheism before whose armed might the whole world trembles still hates and fears this unarmed faith as much today as it did sixty years ago. Yes! All the savage persecutions loosed upon our people by a murderous state atheism, coupled with the corroding effect of its lies, and an avalanche of stultifying propaganda--all of these together have proven weaker than the thousand-year-old faith of our nation. This faith has not been destroyed; it remains the most sublime, the most cherished gift to which our lives and consciousness can attain."
Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Russian novelist, dramatist and historian. Through his writings, he made the world aware of the Gulag, the Soviet Union's labour camp system, and for these efforts Solzhenitsyn was exiled from the Soviet Union in 1974. He was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1970
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#56 Oct 13, 2011
TN Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Efficiently maybe... overall numbers, I don't think so.
See the problem is letting any one single religion, or even the declaration of no religion at all, rule a government, instead of letting its best parts "influence" government.
Governments that embrace Christianity, Muslim Faith, atheism, etc. have all done great evil and harm in their name. Religions or lack thereof, aren't bad in and of themselves, they have just been used as tools to justify brutality and control throughout human history. It’s just one more system of control and dominance used by those in power.
We have a different perspective on things in the west due out our much higher standard of living from economics and technology, and our systems of government that are only partially influenced by religion, and more largely governed by declarations of human rights as opposed to slavish adherence to religious codes.
The problem is that the Middle East is about 200-500 years behind the West in social advancement. In time when they catch up in terms of living conditions, economy, and civil rights, they too will most likely settle down. Unfortunately right now, looking at them is like looking at ourselves (ie. the West) during the brutality of the middle ages.


Good post but some statistics.

Just How Many People Has Religion Killed?
Kirk Durston, National Director, New Scholars Society

"The second point to make is that, yes, people who claim to love God do kill, but nowhere near to the extent that the lack of religion does. According to University of Hawaii political scientist Rudolph J. Rummel,[1] the total number killed in all of human history is estimated to be about 284,638,000. Of that number, 151,491,000 were killed during the past 100 years. The single largest killer in all of human history is, by far, atheistic Communism with a total of 110,000,000 … over 1/3 of all people ever killed! If we add to that number just two other regimes where religion of any sort was strongly discouraged, Nazi Germany and Nationalist China, the number rises to 141,160,000. Almost 50% of all the killings in human history were committed in the past 100 years by regimes that either actively promoted atheism or strongly discouraged religion......."

According to the ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WARS by Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod, religious wars account for only 7%, or 123 of the 1,763 wars in recorded human history... 66 of those religious wars, more than 50%, involved Islam, the so-called “religion of peace.” Yet, Islam did not even exist as a religion for 3,000 years of recorded human warfare.
flowerchild

Indianapolis, IN

#57 Oct 13, 2011
thank you :-). I'm going to have to do some research on that. I appreciate the explanation. I'm always opened minded and love learning! That is very interesting what you wrote. So, state atheism is the act of government actively suppressing the peoples' right to freedom of religion? Am I understanding the jest of that? That's interesting, because our constitution has the separation of church and state...is that considered state atheism? Yes, I'm intrigued and will have to read up on this. Again, thank you!
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
State atheism has been defined by David Kowalewski as the official "promotion of atheism" by a government, typically by active suppression of religious freedom and practice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism
"The centralized atheism before whose armed might the whole world trembles still hates and fears this unarmed faith as much today as it did sixty years ago. Yes! All the savage persecutions loosed upon our people by a murderous state atheism, coupled with the corroding effect of its lies, and an avalanche of stultifying propaganda--all of these together have proven weaker than the thousand-year-old faith of our nation. This faith has not been destroyed; it remains the most sublime, the most cherished gift to which our lives and consciousness can attain."
Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Russian novelist, dramatist and historian. Through his writings, he made the world aware of the Gulag, the Soviet Union's labour camp system, and for these efforts Solzhenitsyn was exiled from the Soviet Union in 1974. He was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1970
skeptic

Bethlehem, PA

#58 Oct 13, 2011
Alen wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct, Iran and rest of the Middle East, is not Islamic, not Quranic.
Same goes for Northern Africa and basically all sunnis and shias. They do not follow Qur'an, like muslim, they follow traditions, that is why they have new titles, e.g. sunni and shia, then sunni split into 4 further "schools of thought", which is NOT from THe Qur'an.
Shia do not follow sunah and hadith, however, they behave and act like pagans:cutting themselves, which is breaking the 4:119 in The Qur'an.
You follow Mohammed just like all muslims.
Your life is based on the laws of Mohammed just like all Muslims follow.
Your behavior is no different then the rest of the Muslims.
You worship Mohammeds god Allah and Allah is the god of jinn devils.
So you are no different then any other Muslim.
more truth

Tallahassee, FL

#59 Oct 13, 2011
Our gov doesn't actively actively promote atheism, we don't forbid people to go to their house of worship, gov closing churches, etc. as the communists did.
downhill246

Pompano Beach, FL

#60 Oct 13, 2011
flowerchild wrote:
thank you :-). I'm going to have to do some research on that. I appreciate the explanation. I'm always opened minded and love learning! That is very interesting what you wrote. So, state atheism is the act of government actively suppressing the peoples' right to freedom of religion? Am I understanding the jest of that? That's interesting, because our constitution has the separation of church and state...is that considered state atheism? Yes, I'm intrigued and will have to read up on this. Again, thank you!
<quoted text>


Actually our constitution says no such thing. It has an establishment clause, or to be more accurate an anti-establishment clause which many scholars claim was added to protect state religious establishments from infringement by the federal government. When written the religious clauses of the first Amendment did not pertain to the states and six states had established churches. Christianity was for all intent and purpose the only game in town.

"The real object of the amendment was, not to countenance, much less to advance Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects, and to prevent any national ecclesiastical establishment, which should give to an hierarchy the exclusive patronage of the national government."
Joseph Story, Associate Justice of the Supreme Court 1811-1845
co founder of Harvard Law School
Rambeaux

Andreas, PA

#61 Oct 13, 2011
Right now Islam is at the point that Christianity was during the Inquisition and the Crusades. It is going through "growing pains" and many people will be hurt and killed until Islam moderates.
more truth

Tallahassee, FL

#62 Oct 13, 2011
There was quite a bit of religious acrimony going on in the new US. We still have some. What we don't have much of is religious violence.
Joe Fortuna

Eureka, CA

#63 Oct 14, 2011
more truth wrote:
There was quite a bit of religious acrimony going on in the new US. We still have some. What we don't have much of is religious violence.
Thanks to secular laws that pervent religion from controlling government policies.
nosatan

El Monte, CA

#64 Oct 18, 2011
The thing is that they hate us because we hate them, we started it by hating them! The dance on the streets of NewYork was because Muslims were fed up of Israel and our beautiful "Human Rights" organization did do nothing but stand there and watch the muslims in Lobenon die, but this same human rights organization jumped up and down during the brutalities in Iraq. Osama BinLaden (son of Laden) is an idiot, a freaking a**hole hated all over the muslim world! I've been to almost all the muslimn countries except Iran and Somalia and trust me, they burn Osama's pictures, piss on it, and do everything they can to show their hatred against him, I've read the Quran twice and found no brutalities, we Americans and Europeans are judging 99.6% by 0.4% come on! Those countries have lost to many lives and are not happy about it! Ask Pakistanis and Afghanistanis, Pakistanis burned the U.S flag yesterday because of a drone attack killing 29 innocent people with the target militant escaping the scene I mean are you kidding me? What else do you guys expect them to do? Lets take a look at the Shari'a law; Raping someone- head chopped off, killing someone - head off, stealing more then 3 Kg gold-chopp the hands off, women having sex with someone after she's married -stone her to death, woman kills someone-stone her! Shari'a is a way to control the people, people wont commit crimes! No yo can't kill any race other then Islam , no you can't rape women, no you can't bring down churches, so lease try to understand Allah isn't Satan, infact iblis/shaitan is Satan! Allah means God! The Christian Arabs call God "Allah"

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