Lantern Commons, residents reach deal on property

By Francesca Jarosz Developers of an $83 million shopping center in Westfield also want to purchase 15 homes north of the site for a possible hotel.

[buy my house]

Love how all the hoopla and "stick to the comp plan" principles disappear when the price is right.

[I see]

TIF, TIF, TIF.

Sooner or later, people are going to actually research how these TIFs work, and realize that in part, a large majority of the tax revenues, will never see the light of day, with respect to actually going toward local public police/fire/schools/etc.

Merely mirroring the average American, with respect to looking to "credit".

[Goodbye]

Very sad day for my father, resident of Woodside Drive. They will demolish those homes not moved. They will rework the land. It will no longer be full of wildlife. He will no longer see deer in his yard or surrounding areas. The 4 lane bridge on 161st street being widened to 4 lanes will be an excuse to remove at least 2 acres worth of woods, trees and fields. Goodbye countryside. Welcome snobby commerce. Good for you dad, getting enough to get out of there!

[Todd Hoard]

It’s nice that the Developer has concerns for the neighbors and is willing to make some kind of an offer to buy the lands. Apparently he agrees with the homeowners who said we don’t want to live next to this, and felt bad enough to do something about it, if only the City would listen to its own citizens. I hope that someone from the City has approached the homeowners to try to keep them here when they move.

[backtalker]

Just what we need... plow under more natural land and install another obnoxious strip mall.

Tenant mix: nail place, sub shop, ice cream shop, cell phone store... same as it ever was...

[Westfield Waldo]

Todd,
First time around, negotations broke down right before being approved. It is good news that a compromise has been worked out. I wonder who stepped up? Tell me though, would you sell your home for the right $? I guess if big enough $, anybody would.
Goodbye,
Sorry to hear about your father. Nice homes back there.
Backtalker,
I agree with you. This was one of the most wooded lots in Washington Twnshp. I have seen deer in the lot also. I wonder how many acres of concrete will be there. Don't forget about a chinese buffet.
I hope they at least bring in unique stores that aren't in the region currently. Be different from Clay Terrace and Village Park Plaza. Hopefully they will change the site plan to reflect a true lifestyle center.

[Shamrock Dude]

Stick a sock in it Todd! This is called the free market at work and guess what it worked great for those people who held out and made a lot of money on there homes when many people in Indiana would give there right arm to sell there home at even below market prices. No one put a gun to their heads and forced them to sell. You should know how this works being a builder. Are you a member of BAGI? If so you're a hypocrite!

Since you think you're so smart why don't you go talk to the neighbors and make sure they stay in town. Or will you only do that if you're paid (mayor's salary).

[Developer]

Todd Hoard wrote:

It’s nice that the Developer has concerns for the neighbors and is willing to make some kind of an offer to buy the lands. Apparently he agrees with the homeowners who said we don’t want to live next to this, and felt bad enough to do something about it, if only the City would listen to its own citizens. I hope that someone from the City has approached the homeowners to try to keep them here when they move.

If the developer had concerns for its neighbors, things like this wouldn't have happened. Pine Tree should have made them (Woodside) so happy that they would enjoy living next to such a quality project. Instead, he steamrolls them into selling out. What are you doing to convince the Woodside folks to stay in Westfield? What do you think the city should do?

[ce la vie]

Developer - Those elected to represent the citizens of the city should have voted NO!

Shamrock Dude - You're an *ss. Not a smart one. Rather, a dumb one.

Westfield Waldo - The compromise was completely on the part of the homeowners. The developer had the leverage and Cook had the contributions for his campaign. Expect restaurants and others retailers like 146th & 31 to be in this and I don't mean Clay Terrace. There will be nothing upscale, quality, or unique about this place. Go to the developer's website and take a look. They don't know how to do upscale or quality. They know WalMart and other discounters.

buy my house - You must be an heir apparent to Shamrock Dude. Go through the neighborhood idiot. You'll see most homes are on about a half-acre so no one is getting rich except the developer. I'd bet if Cook had any conscience and fulfilled his campaign promises, these people wouldn't be moving. That goes for the new council too. Not a single one of them stood up for the residents or the plan. Now everyone knows what to expect, more of the same!

Todd Hoard - You need to really find the facts before giving any credit to the guy getting $14 million in tax money for his pocket. H*ll, he even wants more if he actually buys these homes. Sounds like a great guy, pay him enough and I'll bet he'll be your friend too.

I see - The politicians not only get the campaign contributions, they also get the salaries. In Cook's case, 90K+ for 4 years. Makes it easy to see why they vote in favor of developers.

To the Woodside homeowners - You deserved better. So did this community. The elected, so called representatives, continue to sh*t on the people and bend their knees for the almighty tax dollar. Maybe one day the people will understand there's more to voting than empty campaign promises.

To the community of Westfield - Together we stand, divided we fall. It looks like another group fell and it wasn't because they weren't standing together. It looks like the the rest of us failed again. And no this isn't progress. This was a bl*e light special. Now every low-end developer will continue to knock on the door wanting tax money to build. They'll tear another chunk of history from Westfield's past and future. Take a look at the new Westfield logo, isn't it the most awe inspiring thing you've every seen? It really gives you a sense of who Westfield is, doesn't it?

[Todd Hoard]

Westfield Waldo- Yea, I would sell my home if someone offered the right price, it is what I do for a living. Although I can see why some people wouldn’t want to sell their homes, I will have a harder time when my parents sell their home then when I sell mine.

Shamrock Dude- Yea, a lot of people are trying to sell their home, but I don’t recall one “for sale” sign in Woodside before all this happened, could be wrong but I think a lot of Woodside residents would have lived there for some time to come. Yes, I am a Builder; I also understand the difference of building what people want as opposed to what people don’t want. I also understand that not every piece of ground needs or should be built on. Yes I’m also a BAGI member although I’m not sure why that makes me a hypocrite? I never claimed to be smart but thanks for the endorsement and I’d talk to anybody that wanted to talk, but I feel it’s not my place, if you remember I lost in the Primary. As for the money- again if you remember when I ran for Mayor there wasn’t even a salary.

Developer- I have to say that’s it’s not the Developers mindset to see that the residents of Woodside are happy, except that it’s good business. The City council members and Mayor are the one’s charge with making the residents happy. After all, it’s supposed to be a Government “by the people, for the people”. Maybe that’s the master plan: to run all of the people out, so there not such a load on the schools, police and fire. It could bring down the taxes!?! Again it’s not my place, but I’d be happy to discuss any issues with anyone, but I’m not in government so there nothing I could try for them that they couldn’t try for themselves. As for what to City should do: let’s put our heads together and figure something out. I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but right now, I imagine that they feel like the City is against them and that’s not how it should feel.

ce la vie- Yea I know he’s getting money from the City that the City should be getting from him, when I ran for Mayor I said “No abatements”. He’s putting a shopping mall in one of the wealthiest counties in the United States and needs abatements to make it work?
As for paying him-No thanks, I’m not buying friends.

[Mike H]

Can someone be specific as to what abatements the developer is getting? Where can I find the detailed information about these abatements?

[Ron Thomas]

Mike H wrote:

Can someone be specific as to what abatements the developer is getting? Where can I find the detailed information about these abatements?

Mike,

The Developer is not receiving any abatements. The land has been placed in a TIF (Tax Increment Financing) District. What this means is that the city will sell Bonds,$13.9 million, for infrastructure improvements around this project. Improvements that many believe, myself included, should be paid for by the Developer since it's his project causing the majority of the need. As the project builds out, the Property Taxes collected on this project are supposed to repay the Bond(s). These Bonds can vary in repayment up to 30 years, I believe.

Here's a link to the rezone. Read Section D, infrastructre and notice all the "Developer shall" statements. These are the items that the $13.9 million will pay for but, the Ordinance lead many to believe these costs would be born solely by the Developer.

http://www.westfield.in.gov/egov/docs/1197935...

Here's one strickly dealing with the Bonds:

http://www.westfield.in.gov/egov/docs/1197923...

And finally, here's one that describes the TIF, improvements, and the maps of the District:

http://www.westfield.in.gov/egov/docs/1192482...

[Mike H]

Mr. Thomas,

Thanks for the clarification, that was helpful.

Obviously, Mr. Hoard does not know what he's talking about and should educate himself with the facts before he gets online to make statements which cannot be supported. He speaks like he has authority on a subject he does not know. For a person who wanted to be mayor he should be much more careful in what he says. I bet if we went back and read all his statements over the last year we would find many more unsubstantiated comments. He has been very critical of the current mayor and council. It's time that criticism is pointed back to him in the same manner to be fair. We need for Westfield to come together as a community and work to solve these issues not just take cheap unsubstantiated shots from the internet.
I will be ignoring Mr. Hoard from this point forward unless he can substantiate his comments at the time they are made.

[Todd Hoard]

Mike H.,
Thanks for the input Mike, I have educated myself with the “facts” and sorry if I came off sounding as if I have authority, I’m just a Westfield citizen. I did say their where abatements involved or a lessening/ reduction of cost to the Developer, didn’t say their where Tax abatements involved. That would be something different of course.

[Mike H]

Mr. Hoard,

Congratulations! You are obviously a politician. The way you tried to dodge your obvious misstatement reminds me of Slick Willy. What does your statement mean? Let me quote you, "Yea I know he’s getting money from the City that the City should be getting from him, when I ran for Mayor I said “No abatements”. He’s putting a shopping mall in one of the wealthiest counties in the United States and needs abatements to make it work?
As for paying him-No thanks, I’m not buying friends."

Why don't you quit playing games and just stick to the facts!

[More of the same]

ce la vie wrote:

Expect restaurants and others retailers like 146th & 31 to be in this and I don't mean Clay Terrace. There will be nothing upscale, quality, or unique about this place. Go to the developer's website and take a look. They don't know how to do upscale or quality. They know WalMart and other discounters.

I have to agree with you here, ce la vie. I did check out the developer’s website and you're correct. There's absolutely nothing "upscale" about the retailers currently associated with Pine Tree Developments and I must add that the artistic renderings of Lantern Commons are completely uninspiring. If they insist on destroying a beautiful wooded residential area for the sake of retail they surely can come up with some better tenants than Wal-Mart, Dots, Dress Barn, or Claire’s. Moreover, do they really think we are so foolish to believe that a true “upscale lifestyle center” would accept being next door neighbors to the urban blight that is Valley Farms and Hamilton Square Apartments?

[ce la vie]

More of the same wrote:

<quoted text>I have to agree with you here, ce la vie. I did check out the developer’s website and you're correct. There's absolutely nothing "upscale" about the retailers currently associated with Pine Tree Developments and I must add that the artistic renderings of Lantern Commons are completely uninspiring. If they insist on destroying a beautiful wooded residential area for the sake of retail they surely can come up with some better tenants than Wal-Mart, Dots, Dress Barn, or Claire’s. Moreover, do they really think we are so foolish to believe that a true “upscale lifestyle center” would accept being next door neighbors to the urban blight that is Valley Farms and Hamilton Square Apartments?

There were names thrown around on blogs which included Pennys, Macys, HH Gregg, and Gordmans as the BIG NAME tenants. With tenants like these, if these really are the ones, I'm not sure if anyone in Westfield will be able to afford such high prices. I mean, where's the high paying jobs that would allow Westfielders to make enough to afford such opulence? I can't wait until the FIREWORKS store moves up from Vilage Park Plaza.

[Tom]

I'm very excited about Lantern Commons! Westfield residents will be able to shop in Westfield and have people from neighboring communities come to Wetfield to shop and support other local business - hopefully downtown as it starts to grow and transform itself will be a big benenficiary. It will be nice to shop in Westfield as opposed to going to Noblesville or Carmel all the time and just supporting their businesses and tax structure.

I don't believe we'll end up with Walmart, Target, Dress Barn or other stores like that at Lantern Commons. If we do I would be disappointed and would be the first to agree with the negative naysayers. If we end up with nice stores like Pennys, Macys, HH Gregg, and Gordmans, etc. I hope the naysayers will admit they were wrong. I guess it doesn't matter if they don't - they are such a small minority in our community and they seem to just want to complain about the current elected officials no matter what they do. I also have a lot of friends in Westfield and I can tell you that outside of these comment posts I've heard nothing but positive comments at the prospects of bringing quality commercial businesses to our community and help with lowering our tax burden which is comprised of about $.33 per $100 for the City and over $1.70 per $100 for our schools.

Westfield will be developed. That progress cannot be stopped. While everyone will not agree on exactly how it should be done let's continue to work for high quality developments. Once again in going to town/city meetings, looking at the websites and talking with other people in the community including elected officials I'm content at this point that Lantern Commons will be a nice addition to Westfield!

[ce la vie]

Tom wrote:

I'm very excited about Lantern Commons! Westfield residents will be able to shop in Westfield and have people from neighboring communities come to Wetfield to shop and support other local business - hopefully downtown as it starts to grow and transform itself will be a big benenficiary. It will be nice to shop in Westfield as opposed to going to Noblesville or Carmel all the time and just supporting their businesses and tax structure.
I don't believe we'll end up with Walmart, Target, Dress Barn or other stores like that at Lantern Commons. If we do I would be disappointed and would be the first to agree with the negative naysayers. If we end up with nice stores like Pennys, Macys, HH Gregg, and Gordmans, etc. I hope the naysayers will admit they were wrong. I guess it doesn't matter if they don't - they are such a small minority in our community and they seem to just want to complain about the current elected officials no matter what they do. I also have a lot of friends in Westfield and I can tell you that outside of these comment posts I've heard nothing but positive comments at the prospects of bringing quality commercial businesses to our community and help with lowering our tax burden which is comprised of about $.33 per $100 for the City and over $1.70 per $100 for our schools.
Westfield will be developed. That progress cannot be stopped. While everyone will not agree on exactly how it should be done let's continue to work for high quality developments. Once again in going to town/city meetings, looking at the websites and talking with other people in the community including elected officials I'm content at this point that Lantern Commons will be a nice addition to Westfield!

Tom, this is your opinion and you have every right to it but I think you missed the sarcasm in my last post. I don't believe Pennys, Macys, HH Gregg are high quality, upscale stores. These are the exact types of stores that should be going into Eagle Station which had already been rezoned. To throw away a prime location for questionable retail is absolutely stupid on the behalf of the elected.

And many have the opinion that this development will hurt downtown rather than help it. People are not going to go from this location to a downtown that NEEDS MORE businesses. Downtown will not succeed unless public money is thrown at it like Brainard does in Carmel. He's approaching $200,000,000 in debt for them!

[Huh]

Tom wrote:

I'm very excited about Lantern Commons! Westfield residents will be able to shop in Westfield and have people from neighboring communities come to Wetfield to shop and support other local business - hopefully downtown as it starts to grow and transform itself will be a big benenficiary. It will be nice to shop in Westfield as opposed to going to Noblesville or Carmel all the time and just supporting their businesses and tax structure.
I don't believe we'll end up with Walmart, Target, Dress Barn or other stores like that at Lantern Commons. If we do I would be disappointed and would be the first to agree with the negative naysayers. If we end up with nice stores like Pennys, Macys, HH Gregg, and Gordmans, etc. I hope the naysayers will admit they were wrong. I guess it doesn't matter if they don't - they are such a small minority in our community and they seem to just want to complain about the current elected officials no matter what they do. I also have a lot of friends in Westfield and I can tell you that outside of these comment posts I've heard nothing but positive comments at the prospects of bringing quality commercial businesses to our community and help with lowering our tax burden which is comprised of about $.33 per $100 for the City and over $1.70 per $100 for our schools.
Westfield will be developed. That progress cannot be stopped. While everyone will not agree on exactly how it should be done let's continue to work for high quality developments. Once again in going to town/city meetings, looking at the websites and talking with other people in the community including elected officials I'm content at this point that Lantern Commons will be a nice addition to Westfield!

Why do I get the feeling like I'm being sold something from a politician when I read this post? Tom Smith, is that you trying to justify your actions?