Scouts may lift ban on gays

Jan 29, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Indianapolis Star

The Boy Scouts of America is considering lifting its ban on gay Scouts and troop leaders, but to what extent the decision would have an impact in Indiana is unclear.

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“ reality, what a concept”

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#624
Feb 10, 2013
 

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Truth-Hurts wrote:
http://www.webmd.com/mental-he alth/features/explaining-pedop hilia
This link that was posted by a previous poster, was based on answers by Dr. Blanchard.
"Most pedophiles have a definite preference for one sex or the other. But it's tough to estimate the percentage of pedophiles who are heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual in their attraction to children, Blanchard says."
You do realize that he is talking about their preference in children, not their sexual orientation towards adults, don't you?
Truth-Hurts wrote:
This Dr. was protested by the gay task force. They didn't want him on the APA board because he "didn't fall in step".
To get true facts, don't we need differing opinions and theories on the subject?
The entire protest of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force consisted of the following statement:

Statement by Rea Carey, Acting Executive Director
National Gay and Lesbian Task Force

“We are very concerned about these appointments. Kenneth Zucker and Ray Blanchard are clearly out of step with the occurring shift in how doctors and other health professionals think about transgender people and gender variance. It is extremely disappointing and disturbing that the APA appears to be failing in keeping up with the times when it comes to serving the needs of transgender adults and gender-variant children.”

Blanchard served as Chair of the paraphilia sub-working group for the DSM-5, despite this protest.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

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#625
Feb 10, 2013
 

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Papaw wrote:
You are the real dimwit here.
Y'all keep claiming that, but you haven't done much in the way of proving it. Let's see if you fare any better this time.
Papaw wrote:
Could you clear the defensive attitude out of your mind for a minute.
Preferring evidence and facts to prejudiced supposition supported by neither isn't a defensive mindset, it's called reason.
Papaw wrote:
If you have read all the way through a couple of my posts you might see that I am not saying only homosexuals are pedophiles.
I am aware of that actually, but you are saying that all men who molest boys cannot be heterosexual and that is just as wrong as what you think I think you're saying, but aren't.
Papaw wrote:
In case you have problems comprehending I will say it again. Pedophiles come in all shapes, sizes, ages, occupations and ethnic groups.
True, but you are about to have a but here that really doesn't belong.
Papaw wrote:
A pedo may self label as hetero or maybe even homo but he IS NOT, he is a pedophile first, last and always. It's his primary sexual focus. That's who he is. I have no hate or dislike for G/L. In fact a couple of my friends who happen to be G/L have been strongly disagreeing with a lot of what you've said.
Unless you are saying that pedophilia is in and of itself a naturally occurring sexual orientation, then that persons actual sexual orientation came first, the pedophilia may override it but it doesn't change those naturally occurring instincts. Whether you agree with the repeatedly proven facts or not, the fact remains a homosexual pedophile can be completely and totally heterosexual when it comes to their sexual attractions and behavior with adults.
Papaw

Attica, IN

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#626
Feb 10, 2013
 

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Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Y'all keep claiming that, but you haven't done much in the way of proving it. Let's see if you fare any better this time. <quoted text>Preferring evidence and facts to prejudiced supposition supported by neither isn't a defensive mindset, it's called reason. <quoted text>I am aware of that actually, but you are saying that all men who molest boys cannot be heterosexual and that is just as wrong as what you think I think you're saying, but aren't. <quoted text>True, but you are about to have a but here that really doesn't belong. <quoted text>Unless you are saying that pedophilia is in and of itself a naturally occurring sexual orientation, then that persons actual sexual orientation came first, the pedophilia may override it but it doesn't change those naturally occurring instincts. Whether you agree with the repeatedly proven facts or not, the fact remains a homosexual pedophile can be completely and totally heterosexual when it comes to their sexual attractions and behavior with adults.
You can post all the biased references you like but there are just as many that do not back up your chosen theories. I don't personally care enough to look them up. I have little trust in the psycho babble from the social misfits who have an agenda. Much of what was touted as absolutely true in the past is now being revised and current studies will do the same.
How often have we heard from officials, experts and the medical society that the newest trend in progress is better, best and the only move to make only to find that down the road it's revoked.
Clearly you have a self imposed mission to muddy the waters in order to elevate yourself.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

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#627
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Papaw wrote:
You can post all the biased references you like but there are just as many that do not back up your chosen theories.
Dear, I haven't cited biased sources, but the actual studies themselves and no, there are no studies that have found anything that contradicts what I have posted.
Papaw wrote:
I don't personally care enough to look them up.
I have however, that is why I keep telling you that you really don't know what you are talking about.
Papaw wrote:
I have little trust in the psycho babble from the social misfits who have an agenda.
Neither do I, that is why I am relying on peer reviewed studies of the most respected people in this particular field to back up what I am saying.
Papaw wrote:
Much of what was touted as absolutely true in the past is now being revised and current studies will do the same.
Uh-huh.
Papaw wrote:
How often have we heard from officials, experts and the medical society that the newest trend in progress is better, best and the only move to make only to find that down the road it's revoked.
Clearly you have a self imposed mission to muddy the waters in order to elevate yourself.
No dear, what I have is a mission to combat misinformed prejudices such as your own. I present facts, logic and reason. I don't want people to be confused and do my best to lead them out of it as I have with you. Its not my fault that you insist on sticking with your seriously misinformed ignorance.
Papaw

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#628
Feb 10, 2013
 

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Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Dear, I haven't cited biased sources, but the actual studies themselves and no, there are no studies that have found anything that contradicts what I have posted. <quoted text>I have however, that is why I keep telling you that you really don't know what you are talking about. <quoted text>Neither do I, that is why I am relying on peer reviewed studies of the most respected people in this particular field to back up what I am saying. <quoted text>Uh-huh.
<quoted text>No dear, what I have is a mission to combat misinformed prejudices such as your own. I present facts, logic and reason. I don't want people to be confused and do my best to lead them out of it as I have with you. Its not my fault that you insist on sticking with your seriously misinformed ignorance.
What prejudice? The one you assigned to me?
Believe me, I have nothing against a different sexual orientation.
Paranoia has overtaken your senses. I believe the bigotry is yours.

“ reality, what a concept”

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Feb 10, 2013
 

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Papaw wrote:
What prejudice? The one you assigned to me?
Believe me, I have nothing against a different sexual orientation.
Paranoia has overtaken your senses. I believe the bigotry is yours.
The one you have stated repeatedly, men who molest boys cannot be heterosexual. That is a prejudice, not a statement of fact. I have merely been disabusing your choice of prejudiced beliefs with the truth. I am simply responding to what you have been writing, why you would see that as paranoid and bigoted is beyond me.
Papaw

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Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>The one you have stated repeatedly, men who molest boys cannot be heterosexual. That is a prejudice, not a statement of fact. I have merely been disabusing your choice of prejudiced beliefs with the truth. I am simply responding to what you have been writing, why you would see that as paranoid and bigoted is beyond me.
You are an idiot.
Instead of looking at things through your azz try looking at the big picture. You have a limitation "dear".
Papaw

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#631
Feb 10, 2013
 

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BTW, I have also said that men who molest children are not necessarily homosexual either. I think you like the turmoil of bigotry.

“ reality, what a concept”

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I have fact, logic and reason on my side of the argument and yet I am the idiot with limitations, dear? Yeah, right. Thanks for playing, but you're clearly out of your depth buttercup.
Papaw

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Rick in Kansas wrote:
I have fact, logic and reason on my side of the argument and yet I am the idiot with limitations, dear? Yeah, right. Thanks for playing, but you're clearly out of your depth buttercup.
Of course you are and you're always right too, pumpkin.
Facts my asz.

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#635
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Papaw wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course you are and you're always right too, pumpkin.
Facts my asz.
Perused some of the conversation and I think people error because they fail to understand the difference between sexual orientation and sexual objectives. What is being overlooked is the fact that sex is not just a biological act, it is a form of communication and a conveyance of person's emotional, symbolic inner narrative, so that a sexual act might not necessarily be indictive of or be compelled by a person's gender/sexual orientation, but compelled by that person's narrative he/she is expressing through a sexual act. A simple example I think we all can agree on is serial stranger rape. Obviously this goes far beyond the biological urge to have sex. This is also why a man can be straight in his orientation, be married, sexually active and sucessful with his wife, yet have a compulsion to sexually act against a male child.

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#636
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Rick im Kansas wrote:
I am aware of my gayness and am gay about my awareness.
Let me ride your coattails here Darling and say to the question that might follow,"how do you know that homosexuality isn't "sexually acting out": I think the only answer really is the one you gave, Hon, and if homosexuality can be called to question as simply a narrative, so can heterosexuality for the very same reasons. If one is asserting one is straight by birth, homosexuality is establisheose by the very same reasons. I am born what I am, what I do with my sexuality can and is influenced by my environment.
Str8laces

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Once upon a time, a man cold beat his wife, and not be in trouble, it was a common sight to see pregnant women, smoking, dating a different race was taboo, and being gay was not talked about,
So, Gay folk have come along way!
Papaw

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Feb 10, 2013
 

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RubyTheDyke wrote:
<quoted text>
Perused some of the conversation and I think people error because they fail to understand the difference between sexual orientation and sexual objectives. What is being overlooked is the fact that sex is not just a biological act, it is a form of communication and a conveyance of person's emotional, symbolic inner narrative, so that a sexual act might not necessarily be indictive of or be compelled by a person's gender/sexual orientation, but compelled by that person's narrative he/she is expressing through a sexual act. A simple example I think we all can agree on is serial stranger rape. Obviously this goes far beyond the biological urge to have sex. This is also why a man can be straight in his orientation, be married, sexually active and sucessful with his wife, yet have a compulsion to sexually act against a male child.
Ok, let's start again. I am of the opinion that sexual orientation is like eye color and curly hair....you're born with it. That opinion is based on statements made to me from G/L people. Some of those were friends, some were not. Having been hearing this without prejudice for years and using analytical practices that makes this info "empirical" as well. None of these people admitted to or were suspected of pedophilia. If I ever spoke with a pedophile I was unaware of it. I do not think nor have I seen evidence to back it up that pedophiles are hetero/homo. I see it as falling into a peer pressured way of life which protects the pedophile from detection. What may be confusing is that YES some pedophiles were "created" by early molestation. I have not found info to show that all molested children become pedophilic. Some pedophiles are not molested so that opens the question of where did the pedophilia originate in that person. Was the deviation present from birth like eye color or did it develop from environmental influences like human preferences, food additives, injuries or medicine.

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Papaw wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, let's start again. I am of the opinion that sexual orientation is like eye color and curly hair....you're born with it. That opinion is based on statements made to me from G/L people. Some of those were friends, some were not. Having been hearing this without prejudice for years and using analytical practices that makes this info "empirical" as well. None of these people admitted to or were suspected of pedophilia. If I ever spoke with a pedophile I was unaware of it. I do not think nor have I seen evidence to back it up that pedophiles are hetero/homo. I see it as falling into a peer pressured way of life which protects the pedophile from detection. What may be confusing is that YES some pedophiles were "created" by early molestation. I have not found info to show that all molested children become pedophilic. Some pedophiles are not molested so that opens the question of where did the pedophilia originate in that person. Was the deviation present from birth like eye color or did it develop from environmental influences like human preferences, food additives, injuries or medicine.
I think that's fair, especially since we're talking about subjective experiences someone's "trigger" is going to be a matter of individual context and we simply can't construct "event criteria" monolith. Something that might be innocuous to one person is going to cause significant trauma in another. That's the role of a competent therapist, to facilitate working through -if possible. Part of my problemin sitting in on S.O. panel reviews has been the lean toward aversion therapy and not a lot of insight work. I suppose you have to triage your approach as first and formost have to find a mechanism to break their cycle of harm but I still feel that if you know the message, understand the message you can change the message and stop empowering the reasons for the behavior. Call me Polyanna...

“ reality, what a concept”

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Papaw wrote:
Of course you are and you're always right too, pumpkin.
Facts my asz.
Yes dear, facts, facts which you cannot refute only pathetically deny. I make no claim of always being right and the am the first to admit it when I am proven wrong, you have come nowhere close, cupcake.

“Alley Cat Blues”

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Papaw wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course you are and you're always right too, pumpkin.
Facts my asz.
So if you don't agree with something, it can't be a fact? You're an idiot.
Papaw

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Jupiter wrote:
<quoted text>
So if you don't agree with something, it can't be a fact? You're an idiot.
No, I'm trying to point out that some people want it one way and refuse to look from a higher angle in order to see the whole picture. Some of you (or one poster) are not viewing the entire picture. I'm not refusing to see your point from your angle but it just isn't logical and it goes awry from what I have seen.
I'm not denying that heteros commit heinous crimes just that if children turn you on you aren't primarily hetero or homo, you're a child molester. By following your logic, you're saying all child molesters are hetero and that isn't a fact. There have been occasions of homosexuals committing molestation.

“Alley Cat Blues”

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Papaw wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I'm trying to point out that some people want it one way and refuse to look from a higher angle in order to see the whole picture. Some of you (or one poster) are not viewing the entire picture. I'm not refusing to see your point from your angle but it just isn't logical and it goes awry from what I have seen.
I'm not denying that heteros commit heinous crimes just that if children turn you on you aren't primarily hetero or homo, you're a child molester. By following your logic, you're saying all child molesters are hetero and that isn't a fact. There have been occasions of homosexuals committing molestation.
How could you come to the conclusion, by what I've posted, that I'm saying that all child molesters are hetero? I'm sure that both hetero- and homosexual people have been child molesters. However, I disagree with you that pedophilia is a person's primary sexual orientation. Pedos don't want to date or marry their victims.

“ reality, what a concept”

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Papaw wrote:
No, I'm trying to point out that some people want it one way and refuse to look from a higher angle in order to see the whole picture. Some of you (or one poster) are not viewing the entire picture. I'm not refusing to see your point from your angle but it just isn't logical and it goes awry from what I have seen.
I'm not denying that heteros commit heinous crimes just that if children turn you on you aren't primarily hetero or homo, you're a child molester. By following your logic, you're saying all child molesters are hetero and that isn't a fact. There have been occasions of homosexuals committing molestation.
Are you sure it is us who isn't seeing the entire picture? The Boy Scout's ban on Gay adults as volunteers, you know, the basis for this particular discussion, is premised, in part, on the assumption that ALL gay men are a sexual threat to young boys and therefore must be kept away from them. We both know this part to be completely untrue, the only real disagreement between us has been who the real threat to these boys might actually be. I point out that every last study on the subject, including the one commissioned by the Catholic Church of their abuse problem, has found that the vast majority of such abusers self-identify, behave and are perceived by others as being heterosexual. Your response to this is an illogical disconnect, that there has to be a reason why this isn't true. "Real heterosexuals" would not/could not do this. If we're ever going to have any success in trying to limit the damage of men who do this, we finally have to be honest about who we should be worried about and it ain't lesbian mothers who become den mothers, or openly gay men who either have sons in the program or who grew up in scouting themselves. Statistically speaking, we have known for decades who these monsters usually turn out to be, but for some odd reason, those who want to cling to their prejudices, refuse to listen. Your average "homosexual pedophile"/sexual abuser of young boys is openly heterosexual, likely married to or cohabiting with an adult of the female variety. If the abuse started in the home, the man putting it to mommy heads the suspect list. Maintaining a facade with their heterosexuality is the perfect distraction, especially for all those folks looking for signs of possible homosexuality. If you don't have any, the more you can get away with, as evidenced by the horrifying number of young male victims the average one gets away with before getting caught.

The Boy Scout ban on gay volunteers is nothing more than a dangerous lie to be telling young boys. It tells them that the only monsters they have to fear are gay ones, because as you keep insisting, we all know that if they were really heterosexual, they wouldn't do that. I doubt it was your intention to become a useful idiot to pedophiles and child molesters, but as long as you allow them to hang on to the notion that heterosexuals don't do that, that is exactly what you become.

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