Don't punish success, make tax cut pe...

Don't punish success, make tax cut permanent

There are 140 comments on the The Indianapolis Star story from Mar 12, 2008, titled Don't punish success, make tax cut permanent. In it, The Indianapolis Star reports that:

I offer two facts and an opinion. The first fact is that the so-called Bush tax cuts should be called Bush revenue increases.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Indianapolis Star.

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Breaking News

Goshen, IN

#1 Mar 12, 2008
Amen. People need to understand it will "cost" us if these tax cuts are not kept.
Schneider

AOL

#2 Mar 12, 2008
Crapola!

Another one of these "let's all worship the rich" hymns!

What demented ignorance this letter writer is trying to push about all the success of the Bush administration! The nation's debt has increased widely while the economy is in free fall. Does the letter writer have any grasp of reality?

Ever since Reagan's administration and it's "tinkle down" policies, certain fools have said that if we can only make the richest 10% of the population even richer, a little bit of that money might "tinkle" down on the remaining 90% of us.

It hasn't worked. It won't work. You only have to see that income has been falling for all of us except the the most wealthy of the wealthy who have had all kinds of tax breaks and the like to take even more of our money from us as they send our jobs overseas.

And don't think we will buy the lie that the 90% of us who are losing money to the wealthiest are not "successful" and don't work as hard as we can.
It all likelihood the letter writer is another one of these deluded right wing kooks who drool at the thought that someday they too might be super rich and be able to stomp on the rest of us while they get even more from breaks from us all.

These wealthy wannabes got just as much chance of becoming part of the super rich as the poor kid in the ghetto who thinks he will become an NBA millionaire. At least that kid doesn't hope that his pipe dream will result in 90% of population becoming even poorer as these right wing kooks do.
Doug is wrong

Indianapolis, IN

#3 Mar 12, 2008
Revenue increases? Whose revenue? It certainly was not the majority of the population whose salaries have been stagnant.

Any tax cut must benefit the rich? Rich/Poor? What about the people in the middle. Bush's revenue shifting mostly benefitted the top 1% not the top 50%.

Will not be satisfied until everyone has the same income? Please, let's keep this in the realm of reality, that is never going to happen so why even discuss it. I certainly see no shortage of Doctors or lawyers in this country which means there must still be a little gold to be mined in those professions so let's postpone the pity party for them.

I would suggest the poor rich doctors and business owners take a look at Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations," the bible of the free market. In it Mr. Smith proposes a graduated tax just as we have now and yet people are still trying to get rich by becoming Doctors and opening business. So give us a break chicken little the bleeding heart, the sky isn't falling and I am pretty sure the Doctor's and Business owner's families are still eating three squares a day.
Fed up with freeloaders

Panama City, FL

#4 Mar 12, 2008
Well said, Mr. Roller. It never ceases to amaze me how people who pay little or no taxes complain about tax cuts benefiting only the "wealthy." If I get stuck paying 80% of a bill for dinner for myself and another person, if the restaurant discovers an error resulting in an overcharge, I am entitled to 80% of the money refunded. The people complaining about tax cuts benefiting only the wealthy think they should get the entire refund when they only paid 20% to begin with. Two principles: 1. Any percentage of zero is zero. If you are not paying taxes, of course a tax cut is no benefit to you. 2. A set percentage of varying amounts will result in different numbers - the higher the amount on which the percentage was calculated, the higher the final number. The more taxes you pay, the higher the number resulting from an even tax cut applied across the board. That is called fair, not a benefit to the "rich."
moska

Indianapolis, IN

#5 Mar 12, 2008
Schneider wrote:
Crapola!
Another one of these "let's all worship the rich" hymns!
What demented ignorance this letter writer is trying to push about all the success of the Bush administration! The nation's debt has increased widely while the economy is in free fall. Does the letter writer have any grasp of reality?
Ever since Reagan's administration and it's "tinkle down" policies, certain fools have said that if we can only make the richest 10% of the population even richer, a little bit of that money might "tinkle" down on the remaining 90% of us.
It hasn't worked. It won't work. You only have to see that income has been falling for all of us except the the most wealthy of the wealthy who have had all kinds of tax breaks and the like to take even more of our money from us as they send our jobs overseas.
And don't think we will buy the lie that the 90% of us who are losing money to the wealthiest are not "successful" and don't work as hard as we can.
It all likelihood the letter writer is another one of these deluded right wing kooks who drool at the thought that someday they too might be super rich and be able to stomp on the rest of us while they get even more from breaks from us all.
These wealthy wannabes got just as much chance of becoming part of the super rich as the poor kid in the ghetto who thinks he will become an NBA millionaire. At least that kid doesn't hope that his pipe dream will result in 90% of population becoming even poorer as these right wing kooks do.
ever try to get a job from a poor person? who do you think creates these jobs you lefty nut, poor people like you who thinks higher taxes is always the answer.
Bob Klingle

Indianapolis, IN

#6 Mar 12, 2008
While GWB has been in the White House the DJIA has increased at the rate of 2.12% APR. The lowest since J. CArter.

With an 8% APR increase it would have been over 18,300 by now. Good work GWB!
JA in Indy

Chicago, IL

#7 Mar 12, 2008
The tax cuts did in fact work - they stimulated the economy and the revenue to the government INCREASED.

Yes, we also had increasing deficits, but that's because we spent so much more. Congress & the President need to curtail spending like drunken sailors to control the deficit.

If taxes increase, it will have a negative affect on the economy. Taxing the rich sounds like a great idea to those who are not rich, but in the end it winds up hurting lower income folks more because it slows the economy and results in fewer jobs.

We already have a progressive tax system - with a family of four making up to $24,000 paying NO income tax at all. Then 10% on the next $15,000, 15% on the next $50,000 or so, making the effective tax rate for a family of 4 with household income of $90,000 is 10%.

My marginal rate is 33%- and actually higher when you factor in the reduced deductions, phase out of exemptions and the alternative minimum tax - probably more like 35-36%.

Adam Smith wrote The Wealth of Nations in the 1770's - I'd hope we are basing our tax scheme on our experiences over the last 250 years.
Jim

Indianapolis, IN

#8 Mar 12, 2008
Just some interesting information about how much Federal Tax you paid then and pay now.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/sho... Check the figures yourself!

Taxes underClinton1999 Taxes under Bush 2008
Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K -- tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K - tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250

If you want to know just how effective the mainstream media is, it is amazing how many peoplethat fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatestPresident ever. Obama and Clinton say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts.

A good portion of the people who fall into the categories above can't wait for that to happen. This is like the movie "The Sting" with Paul Newman - you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even know what happened.
WhereHasCommonSe nseGone

Indianapolis, IN

#9 Mar 12, 2008
Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand - paying for beer.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men(poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh would pay $7.

The eighth would pay $12.

The ninth would pay $18.

The tenth man(richest) would pay $59.

So that is what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20". Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But, what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share'? They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtraced that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing(100%savings)

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3(33% savings).

The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7(28% savings).

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12(25% savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18(22% savings).

The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59(16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20" declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,"but he got $10!.

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I".

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half the bill !!!!!!!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.
Roberta Schonemann

United States

#10 Mar 12, 2008
What planet do you live on? The "Bush Tax Cut" has benefited the top 1% of tax payers with annual salaries in excess of $350,000. It has resulted in a debt equivalent to each American--man, woman, and child--of $38,000. As a result, the government has been printed money seriously decreasing the value of the dollar, which has contributed to the high cost in gasoline and food,...
William Phillips

Plymouth, MI

#11 Mar 12, 2008
Did this guy just come in from PLanet 9 in outerspace? Otherwise he would know where all the Republican "borrow and spend with tax breaks for the rich" policies have gotten us.

A staggering national debt that will bankrupt the USA within 20 years.

A collapsing economy that will lead to a possible depression.

Welcome to the real world bozo!
William Phillips

Plymouth, MI

#12 Mar 12, 2008
I read corrected. Wherehas takes the bozo prize for his wonderful logic.
Liberal Tammy

Carmel, IN

#13 Mar 12, 2008
Schneider wrote:
Crapola!
Another one of these "let's all worship the rich" hymns!
What demented ignorance this letter writer is trying to push about all the success of the Bush administration! The nation's debt has increased widely while the economy is in free fall. Does the letter writer have any grasp of reality?
Ever since Reagan's administration and it's "tinkle down" policies, certain fools have said that if we can only make the richest 10% of the population even richer, a little bit of that money might "tinkle" down on the remaining 90% of us.
It hasn't worked. It won't work. You only have to see that income has been falling for all of us except the the most wealthy of the wealthy who have had all kinds of tax breaks and the like to take even more of our money from us as they send our jobs overseas.
And don't think we will buy the lie that the 90% of us who are losing money to the wealthiest are not "successful" and don't work as hard as we can.
It all likelihood the letter writer is another one of these deluded right wing kooks who drool at the thought that someday they too might be super rich and be able to stomp on the rest of us while they get even more from breaks from us all.
These wealthy wannabes got just as much chance of becoming part of the super rich as the poor kid in the ghetto who thinks he will become an NBA millionaire. At least that kid doesn't hope that his pipe dream will result in 90% of population becoming even poorer as these right wing kooks do.
Wow, what a negative loser. Why are liberals so negative and angry? Okay, young people you've heard it, you can't get ahead in this country, so don't try. What a load of crap!!! THIS IS AMERICA!!!! If you work hard and smart, stay out of debt and have a burning desire to succeed, you will succeed. Don't believe the liberal/Socialist gloom and doom, loser mentality.
just some facts

Fishers, IN

#14 Mar 12, 2008
And the war had no affect? The letter writer is an idiot. The Fed has bought up 400 billion of sub-prime mortgages from the banks and mortgage providers to stabilize the economy and pump the stock market. As taxpayers we now have a portfolio of near worthless mortgages. Under Bush, it is Socialism for the wealthy and Capitalism for the middle class and poor. The Fed made sure that the bank CEO's could keep their huge salaries. LOL Repubs talk a lot about capitalism, but are really socialists. Government and debt have both skyrocketed in size under Bush.
Liberal Tammy

Carmel, IN

#15 Mar 12, 2008
William Phillips wrote:
Did this guy just come in from PLanet 9 in outerspace? Otherwise he would know where all the Republican "borrow and spend with tax breaks for the rich" policies have gotten us.
A staggering national debt that will bankrupt the USA within 20 years.
A collapsing economy that will lead to a possible depression.
Welcome to the real world bozo!
"A collapsing economy that will lead to a possible depression." The economy is not collapsing. The national un-employment rate is 4.5%. Have you ever been to another country? We have a strong, vibrant economy with low un-employment. Can liberals do anything other than criticize, tear down and proclaim gloom and doom? Listen to any liberal and all that comes out of their mouth is negativity.
MJK

Chicago, IL

#16 Mar 12, 2008
Clinton balanced the budget, and Bush created a $4 Trillion debt. Creating a $4 Trillion debt is a delayed tax increase. It's a tax increase on our children. You f-ing Republicans are a bunch of simpletons, and that's why Congress and the Presidency will be fully Democratic in November.
Jim wrote:
Just some interesting information about how much Federal Tax you paid then and pay now.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/sho... Check the figures yourself!
Taxes underClinton1999 Taxes under Bush 2008
Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K -- tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K - tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250
If you want to know just how effective the mainstream media is, it is amazing how many peoplethat fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatestPresident ever. Obama and Clinton say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts.
A good portion of the people who fall into the categories above can't wait for that to happen. This is like the movie "The Sting" with Paul Newman - you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even know what happened.
Poor baby

Carmel, IN

#17 Mar 12, 2008
The Bush tax cuts have bankrupted our country and devalued our currency.

It wasn't worth it.
Bruce

Fishers, IN

#18 Mar 12, 2008
Schneider wrote:
Crapola!
Another one of these "let's all worship the rich" hymns!
What demented ignorance this letter writer is trying to push about all the success of the Bush administration! The nation's debt has increased widely while the economy is in free fall. Does the letter writer have any grasp of reality?
Ever since Reagan's administration and it's "tinkle down" policies, certain fools have said that if we can only make the richest 10% of the population even richer, a little bit of that money might "tinkle" down on the remaining 90% of us.
It hasn't worked. It won't work. You only have to see that income has been falling for all of us except the the most wealthy of the wealthy who have had all kinds of tax breaks and the like to take even more of our money from us as they send our jobs overseas.
And don't think we will buy the lie that the 90% of us who are losing money to the wealthiest are not "successful" and don't work as hard as we can.
It all likelihood the letter writer is another one of these deluded right wing kooks who drool at the thought that someday they too might be super rich and be able to stomp on the rest of us while they get even more from breaks from us all.
These wealthy wannabes got just as much chance of becoming part of the super rich as the poor kid in the ghetto who thinks he will become an NBA millionaire. At least that kid doesn't hope that his pipe dream will result in 90% of population becoming even poorer as these right wing kooks do.
I continue to be amazed at the scandalous level of ignorance displayed by the average liberaliar. Schneider is one of the most ignorant.

FACT: The top 50% of all American wage earners pay 97% of all federal income tax. The top 25% pay 86% of all federal income tax, and the top 1% pay a whopping 39% of all federal income tax. CONCLUSION: The wealthiest, hardest working, most productive of our society already shoulder way more than their fair share of the national tax burden. By the way, the Bush tax cuts INCREASED the share of the tax burden paid by the richest 1%. Look it up.

FACT: During the 4 years since the Bush tax cuts went into effect, federal revenues increased $740 billion and revenues from the capital gains tax nearly doubled to $110 billion. CONCLUSION: Liberaliars are wrong and dishonest when they dispute the truth of revenue increases. That's why we call them liberaliars.

FACT: The unemployment rate for February was 4.8%, well below the average of the last three decades. Our economy has added about 860,000 jobs over the last 12 months an average of 72,000 jobs per month and more than 8.1 million since August 2003. CONCLUSION: There are jobs out there for those who want to work.

FACT: America is NOT in a recession. Real GDP growth slowed to an annual rate of 0.6 percent in the fourth quarter of last year. That's not good news, but the fact is, that is still growth. CONCLUSION: Our economy has done nothing but grow ever since the Bush tax cuts/revenue increasers went into effect. Sometimes the growth has been robust, sometimes the growth has been weak, but there has always been growth.

FACT: Elect liberaliars to federal office, liberaliars like the ignorant Schneider, and you will guarantee runaway inflation, runaway unemployment, and a shrinking economy (that means "recession", for all you liberaliars who don't know the definition). We aren't there yet, but a November election that puts liberaliars in charge will get us there.

And that's a fact!
Bruce

Fishers, IN

#19 Mar 12, 2008
Poor baby wrote:
The Bush tax cuts have bankrupted our country and devalued our currency.
It wasn't worth it.
That is a lie. Lying is a sin. Please don't lie.
Bruce

Fishers, IN

#20 Mar 12, 2008
MJK wrote:
Clinton balanced the budget, and Bush created a $4 Trillion debt. Creating a $4 Trillion debt is a delayed tax increase. It's a tax increase on our children. You f-ing Republicans are a bunch of simpletons, and that's why Congress and the Presidency will be fully Democratic in November.
<quoted text>
You have told a lie, and you should be ashamed. Clinton did not balance the budget. The GOP Congress balanced the budget, after the GOP Revolution led by Newt Gingrich.

The GOP may very well experience losses in November, but that's because the GOP has morphed into a spend-spend-spend party just like the liberaliar Democrats.

Please don't lie. Lying is a sin. You should be ashamed.

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